35 replies to this topic

[Mardek]

Origins IIC 'Mech Loadout and Customization Info

Q: Are the stock XL Engines in the Origins IIC 'Mechs Clan Engines or Inner Sphere Engines?
A: They are Clan Engines.

Q: Will the Origins IIC 'Mechs be able to switch out their Engines?
A: Yes. Origins IIC 'Mechs will be able to equip any Clan Engines that are compatible with their chassis.

Q: Are the Upgrades (Armor, Internal Structure, and Heat Sinks) the Clan versions or the Inner Sphere versions of those upgrades?
A: They are the Clan versions.

Q: Are the stock Upgrades customizable? Can we change the Armor, Internal Structure, or Heat Sink type?
A: Yes. You could switch from Ferro-Fibrous Armor to Standard Armor, for example.

Q: Will the Origins IIC 'Mechs use OmniPods?
A; No.

Q: Will the Origins IIC 'Mechs have any fixed equipment?
A: No.

Q: Will the Origins IIC 'Mechs be able to equip Inner Sphere equipment or weapons?
A: No. The Origins IIC 'Mechs will only be able to equip Clan items.


Let the rage begin

[aniviron]

From the very start, the one balancing factor for the clans has been lack of customization. Battlemechs are superior to Omnimechs, full stop. The only thing keeping the clans' superior weaponry in line is their inferior chassis, i.e. the Hunchback can still compete with the Nova because it can get endo, ferro, has no hard locked equipment, etc. We also see this problem when clan mechs are already optimally set up, i.e. with the Stormcrow which comes with Endo, Ferro, no locked equipment, and a good engine. Because it is already set up like a properly equipped IS mech would be, the clan weapons make it OP.

And now here come clan Battlemechs. The single thing that keeps them in line is being taken away. I'm not getting out my torch or pitchfork just yet, but I know I'm not the only one who wants to know from Russ & Co: What is your plan to prevent these mechs from being clearly better than every other mech in the game?

[Alistair Winter]

Uhm... I feel like we knew all this already

[CocoaJin]

I assume they won't be quirked, it would seem much of the IS hardpoint inflation and quirks would put IS variants pretty close to IIC damage outputs.

[Mardek]

Alistair Winter, on 12 July 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Uhm... I feel like we knew all this already

But now its official

[SgtMagor]

Clan Battlemechs carrying Clan equipment and weapons, yup sounds about right

[Sjorpha]

The good thing about the IICs are that they provide a proper point of comparison between IS and Clan techs.

For example, what changes to IS tech would it take for the IS Jenner to be as good as the IIC Jenner?

The answer is the magnitude of imbalance between the IS and Clan equipment on that mech, and the 4 IIC mechs cover quite a range of comparisons here.

So PGI can use them as an unobscured point of reference when balancing the factions, thats actually a really good thing.

[stjobe]

For those who wonder: Source.

And yes, that "big balance pass" better have some real good stuff in it if these IIC 'mechs aren't going to just blow their IS counterparts away.

Edited by stjobe, 12 July 2015 - 02:20 PM.

[Mardek]

stjobe, on 12 July 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

For those who wonder: Source.

And yes, that "big balance pass" better have some real good stuff in it if these IIC 'mechs aren't going to just blow their IS counterparts away.

THX i forgot to add the source

[Wintersdark]

Alistair Winter, on 12 July 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Uhm... I feel like we knew all this already

We did. Despite the forum questions and arguments from people who refused to actually listen to Russ in the Townhall, we knew the answers to all these questions from day one.

CocoaJin, on 12 July 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

I assume they won't be quirked, it would seem much of the IS hardpoint inflation and quirks would put IS variants pretty close to IIC damage outputs.

Exactly. A HBK-4G w/ AC20 puts as much damage downrange as a HBK IIC w/ 2xUAC20, and it does so with a much larger, standard engine and better cooling. The IIC has higher burst dps, but it's spread in 5 damage shells as opposed to the 4G's rapidfire 20 damage shells, and comes with the risk of jamming.

Likewise, the 4J is far more efficient a missile boat, putting LRM60 equivilant firepower downrange.

The GI with Gauss isn't quite as good as the IIC with dual gauss because of the charge delay (the GI's quirks reduce the weapon recycle, but both IIC and GI have the same charge delay added), but conversely has better backup weapons and much more speed.

Sjorpha, on 12 July 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

The good thing about the IICs are that they provide a proper point of comparison between IS and Clan techs.

For example, what changes to IS tech would it take for the IS Jenner to be as good as the IIC Jenner?

See: HBK quirks, as they're pretty close.

The Jenner and Highlander are both going to need substantial quirk upgrades, i think.

Quote

So PGI can use them as an unobscured point of reference when balancing the factions, thats actually a really good thing.

Yeah.

---

"Lack of customization" is a TERRIBLE balancing mechanic, and it lead to the situation we have now, where Clan Mechs are either OP or UP vs. IS mechs based solely on their fixed configurations.

This seems like it'd work out overall, except it doesn't: the vast bulk of players (who would be concerned about balance anyways) simply migrate to the chassis that have the best fixed loadouts, and pretend the rest of the mechs don't exist.

[Mcgral18]

stjobe, on 12 July 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

For those who wonder: Source.

And yes, that "big balance pass" better have some real good stuff in it if these IIC 'mechs aren't going to just blow their IS counterparts away.

On the bright side, only the Hunchback will bring something new and exciting.

Jenner will be slightly above the Hankyu for performance, but nothing extraordinarily better. Hitboxes may hamper (to be seen) and lacks the Jesus Box.

The Orion and HGN are inferior to other choices.


The Hunch can mount over 20DHS and a half dozen lasers with JJs, which the Crow struggles to do. It can mount multiple ballistics, which the Crow can't. Missile boating could go either way; Crow can do the same 4 missiles with more lasers and more speed.


Hunch and Jenner are the only things which threaten to raise the bar, but that's only marginally. Hunch 4J will still be better than the IIC LRM boat (15% more DPS than a quad cLRM15), and the Grid Iron pumps Gauss out at a slightly inferior rate (~3.5 rounds out in the span of 4 from the IIC) but will have a better ground speed. 4SP is roughly on par (slightly less missile DPS, more lasers). Others can't really keep up, the 4H, 4P and 4G.

Edited by Mcgral18, 12 July 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

stjobe, on 12 July 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

For those who wonder: Source.

And yes, that "big balance pass" better have some real good stuff in it if these IIC 'mechs aren't going to just blow their IS counterparts away.

Does it really matter anymore if they do?

Almost all "competitive" players will buy the IIC mechs even if they have a very slight marginal advantage. Dedicated fans and whales (which constitute most of the remaining players of this game) will buy them because "hey look, new mechs!" Casual players don't care that much if they win or lose so balance doesn't matter that much to them.

This game has been a giant joke for years now. Who cares any more what is balanced or not. Just play the dumb game, shoot some stuff, and go to bed.

[Nightmare1]

Thank goodness! No locked components!

Locked Components has got to be the second worst idea PGI ever had.

[Wintersdark]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 12 July 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

Does it really matter anymore if they do?

Almost all "competitive" players will buy the IIC mechs even if they have a very slight marginal advantage. Dedicated fans and whales (which constitute most of the remaining players of this game) will buy them because "hey look, new mechs!" Casual players don't care that much if they win or lose so balance doesn't matter that much to them.

This game has been a giant joke for years now. Who cares any more what is balanced or not. Just play the dumb game, shoot some stuff, and go to bed.

Rabble rabble rabble!

[aniviron]

stjobe, on 12 July 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

For those who wonder: Source.

And yes, that "big balance pass" better have some real good stuff in it if these IIC 'mechs aren't going to just blow their IS counterparts away.

Hell, it had better have some good stuff or it's going to blow all the other clan mechs away too.

Of course, I'm sure everything will be balanced, just in time for the Cbill release once again.

[Kain Demos]

stjobe, on 12 July 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

For those who wonder: Source.

And yes, that "big balance pass" better have some real good stuff in it if these IIC 'mechs aren't going to just blow their IS counterparts away.

Not necessarily--these should come with zero quirks.


Not only that but I do not see the Hunchback, Orion, or Highlander IIC displacing the Stormcrow, Timberwolf, or Dire Wolf at all. Honestly I don't think the Highlander will even be better than the Warhawk or Executioner and the Orion IIC may even be the 4th best Clan heavy after the Timberwolf, Hellbringer, and Ebon Jaguar. The Hunchback could become the 2nd best Clan Medium though since the Nova and Ice Ferret are so far behind the Stormcrow.

Edited by Kain Demos, 12 July 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[CycKath]

Alistair Winter, on 12 July 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Uhm... I feel like we knew all this already

The inability to share even common ground stuff like Standard Engines and Heat Sinks is sorta new. Take that engine swappers!

[JohnnyWayne]

Well Im having a bad feeling about that rebalance. A feeling that omni mechs will be dead after it.

[stjobe]

JohnnyWayne, on 12 July 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Well Im having a bad feeling about that rebalance. A feeling that omni mechs will be dead after it.

"We've decided to rebalance the game to be closer to its BattleTech roots. Therefore, Inner Sphere BattleMechs are no longer freely customizable, neither are Clan BattleMechs. Clan OmniMechs though, can freely configure their pods. Instead of using the BattleMech Construction rules, BattleMech customization will now follow the Field Repair and Refit rules."

Well, it's not very likely, but it *could* happen

[JohnnyWayne]

Haha not a chance, I just have a discussion if we could balance Clans by numbers and Zellbriggen... So not going to happen ^^