43 replies to this topic

[Mitsuragi]

Dear OP,

PGI has laid out the next 6 months of development for you. In addition, they respond to player feedback by changing the UI, adding dynamic weapon hard points, rescaling mechs, adjusting quirks, developing new balance mechanics, working on JJ's, and a pile of other things. All of this takes manpower and time. Since PGI works on a 2 week testing cycle for patches, that means the SOONEST you could see any change is 3-4 weeks if it's an easy request and passes testing the first try. Please take some time to think about what you're saying before you say it.

Regards,
Another Player

Edited by Mitsuragi, 15 July 2015 - 06:52 AM.

[1453 R]

Where the hell have you been, Dieter?

Commodity Warfare has been very nearly their sole focus for months beyond bug fixes and 'Mech packs, neither of which is supposed to eat much development manpower. River City Redux has been the first bone they've thrown to solo guys in forever. Don't get me wrong, it is a juicy and delectable bone for which I am properly grateful, but what, exactly, do you want them to do? Just forget the eighty percent of the playerbase that has zero interest in Commodity Warfare for the rest of forever?

I get it, I do - CW needs more work than the regular queue does. It's a newer mode that's had less overall dev time, and even though I find it a complete waste of effort and resources, I don't blame Piranha for sinking the majority of their effort into trying to get the mode up and running. But I have no interest in being attracted to CW, or in any of the hundred and five things you need to do in order to actually derive any enjoyment whatsoever from that particular clusterfisk of a game mode. I'm honestly kind of sick of seeing CW guys tromp on up in here and demand that Piranha Fix It.

What do you think they've been doing, buddy? I sure as shootin' don't see any new maps or mode adjustments coming out for the regular queue, RCR being quite the tasty exception. They're monkeying with Assault sometime in the foreseeable future, sure, and maybe that's taking precious time away from CW...but you guys have had the dev's sole attention for upwards of a year now. Maybe it's time for them to start splitting their focus again, doing nice things for the rest of us, too?

Would certainly be nice.

[Johnny Z]

Mawai, on 15 July 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Just a couple of comments

1) Russ has apparently said he ignores the forums due to the attitudes that some players have when posting here and due to the time required to follow them in any detail. Supposedly someone at PGI is (the community manager?) is intended to keep an eye on the forums ... but I can see little or no sign of this except in the "Developer Outreach" forum where they want to gather some additional information. Bottom line ... don't hold your breath that anything typed in the general forum will ever be read and absorbed by anyone at PGI. (Either way ... even if PGI does follow the forums in some way ... the lack of interaction has certainly left the impression that they ignore it).

2) PGI has a microscopic development team as far as these things go ... probably about 6 engineers are responsible for everything from UI to gameplay to features (not art work) which includes CW, pilot trees, PVE, HSR, hit registration, netcode ... anything and everything that might be on their development wish list. What this means is that, even at the best of times, development proceeds at a glacial pace from an external perspective. It isn't their fault ... they just don't have very many people working on it.

3) PGI would not intentional hold any features back to make someone else's product look better ... that is just a mind boggling idea ... they just don't have enough staff to develop all of these in a timely way so they prioritize.

4) For those who love CW ... REMEMBER ... CW does not appeal to everyone. In fact, it may not appeal to all that many people since it appears to prefer large unit membership and group drops, ties you down to a faction, takes longer to play a match, takes longer to queue for a match ... and honestly, has limited additional lasting impact ... except for changing system ownership on a big map. If you don't really care about the lore ... perhaps just like playing MWO .. then CW really offers nothing more than a limited respawn game mode with slightly different victory conditions and different maps. Some folks probably play CW out of sheer boredom with the regular maps and game modes.

If you dropped the CW game mode and maps into the PUG queue ... I am not sure how many CW players would be left who would want to fight specifically for a glowing pixel on a map.

... and this is part of the problem with CW ... it has low populations because it splits the player base and has higher entry requirements. There will always be fewer players in CW than the PUG queues due to the barriers to entry.

There are three ways to increase CW participation:
1) Recruit a vast number of new players who stick with the game, collect mechs and buy modules so that they can properly outfit a full drop deck for CW. (As a side note ... I have been playing since closed beta and I do NOT have enough duplicate modules to outfit a full CW drop deck ... and who wants to play a game mode like that which takes additional time with even a small disadvantage?).
2) Offer very high rewards for playing CW which make it worthwhile even if you lose miserably to a 12 man. This might attract more players to CW by making it worth their time. At the moment, CW rewards fewer cbills on average than the three or four regular matches that can be played in the same time frame.
3) Reduce the barriers to entry in some way. Make the game mode more friendly to the average PUG player. However, I have read posts from CW players insisting that they don't want a bunch of random PUGs "spoiling" CW ... dropping in trials because they don't have a full drop deck, etc. ... though without making the game mode more accessible ... I think the CW population will remain low.


Some things that might make CW more accessible:

- allow multiple copies of modules to be fitted to a CW drop deck ... you need to own one ... but can then fit it to any or all of the CW drop deck mechs. For example, radar derp is 6mill, seismic is 6mill ... for a 4 mech drop deck this is 24 mill which is a substantial barrier for newer players.
- increase CW cbill awards to be consistent with the time required for the matches ... maybe add a queuing bonus so that the longer you are in the queue waiting for a match .. the larger your bonus rewards.
- adjust the CW matchmaker so that it tries to match 12v12 and small group/solo vs small group/solo ... try to avoid the mismatched cases of large groups against random disorganized players ... these are less fun for both sides.

I am sure that there are lots of other ideas out there but no matter what happens CW will always have a lower population than the public queues.

(Note: the introduction of European and Asian servers may result in a significant split in the player base and even longer queue times in both PUG and CW matches (I don't know if they are splitting CW)).

See this? This is an NPC from 2014, from a competitior of Star Citizen, that puts Star Citizen in the dark ages. Really. They deliberately beat the crap out of their own game. The only question is why. I think it has to do with market sharing etc.

http://steamcommunit...70/screenshots/

(Many of these screen shots are of mods to allow capital ship bridges and improving NPC appearance, etc.)

How they nerfed their own game is such a long list but surfice to say instead of what they could have done and is already possible in their game they relegated the player to piloting one tiny ship called the "Skunk", with a picture of a fruit fly as decore on the inside. Read that again, I am not kidding.

Players have modded the game into allowing the player to be on the bridge of capital ships 1st person...... Yet the game itself handed the player garbage, quite literally.

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 July 2015 - 07:19 AM.

[MechaBattler]

They're aware. They just don't respond to every thread that gets made about it. Ultimately it's up to them to decide how to proceed. It's not like they have an unlimited amount of resources to change things.

[Davegt27]

DI3T3R, on 15 July 2015 - 03:48 AM, said:

Dear PGI

There have been tons of complaints about CW in the forum, there have been tons of suggestions in the forum how to save CW. And yet it seems that CW has no priority for you at all.

Taking into account the horribly outdated state your homepage is in, and taking into account that you sometimes release important news on social media intead of the forum, one might come to the conclusion that you don't actually care about the forum.
One might come to the conclusion that you don't really care about what bothers your playerbase/customers.
One might come to the conclusion that the "Feature Suggestions"-subforum exists solely to keep up the illusion that caring about MWO matters to you.

You seem more focused on adding more and more content instead of getting the game right the content is in.

My questions:
* What are your plans to attract more players to CW?
* What are your plans to lower wait-times in CW? (For example: The wait-time for public matches is 1-2 minutes for a 10-15-minute game. The wait-time for a CW-match is 5-15 minutes for a 25-30-minute game. This is simply unacceptable.)
* In the long term, are there changes planned to the principal mechanism of CW?
* If Yes, in which direction are those changes aimed?

with best regards,
a customer who took a long break from MWO because of CW and who would like to know whether he should bother coming back at all

One good point the OP asked was what can be done about wait times

Russ mentioned in the town hall meeting that he would like to see the big units break up into smaller units

Now a lot of people went over board and said they were going to do away with big units but he did not say that, he was just suggesting it

What he did not go into too deeply is why he wanted the bigger units to break up

I feel on big reason is wait times---if you have 50 or 100 people on the same team trying to get a match and the opponents are only 24 you’re going to have some pretty long wait times (unless they want to fight each other)

It might be time for some tough love if you want CW to live

What is needed is a flood of suggestions to reduce with times

[Cyborne Elemental]

The CW events worked pretty well to bring people in, with Giveaway prizes ect, that always works to lure us in with candy

Most people try to play it just like any other pub game, just same old with new maps to run around on.

But problem is as it always has been, either one side or the other is just a disorganized jumble of pubnubs that gets stomped over and over, gets frustrated, quits.

CW is made for organized groups of players, that is what works best and provides the best game experience, and people either don't want that, or outright refuse to team up and work together.

That is why the wait times hurt so much when people try to solo a game mode designed entirely for group combat, but there is a laundry list of other problems with CW that need addressed.

[TLBFestus]

Mawai, on 15 July 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Some things that might make CW more accessible:

- allow multiple copies of modules to be fitted to a CW drop deck ... you need to own one ... but can then fit it to any or all of the CW drop deck mechs. For example, radar derp is 6mill, seismic is 6mill ... for a 4 mech drop deck this is 24 mill which is a substantial barrier for newer players.
- increase CW cbill awards to be consistent with the time required for the matches ... maybe add a queuing bonus so that the longer you are in the queue waiting for a match .. the larger your bonus rewards.
- adjust the CW matchmaker so that it tries to match 12v12 and small group/solo vs small group/solo ... try to avoid the mismatched cases of large groups against random disorganized players ... these are less fun for both sides.

I am sure that there are lots of other ideas out there but no matter what happens CW will always have a lower population than the public queues.

(Note: the introduction of European and Asian servers may result in a significant split in the player base and even longer queue times in both PUG and CW matches (I don't know if they are splitting CW)).

I've reiterated your statement about increasing the number of new players to "trickle down" enough players to populate CW. That means they have to concentrate on the New Player Experience and the CW players will have to wait to reap any benefit.

Your other points have merit too, but I wanted to throw one more option into the mix. I wonder if it would be possible to create a "Drop Deck" MechBay in which PGI gives the player 4 basic mechs (or allows them to choose 4 of 6 or some other number) to create a personal Drop Deck stable of mechs that can be used in CW ONLY.

No taking these mechs into the public queue, they are available for CW drops only. A player can add mechs from his public queue collection to this stable of mechs as they see fit, but the initial drop deck is forever locked into CW.

This alleviates the big issue that you pointed out....many players cannot even field a full deck for CW without a very long, very extensive grind.

Allow them to modify and upgrade them as much as they want, but they can't ever leave the CW deck.

It's a Win-Win scenario;

- more players for CW
- new players get mechs to play with
- It's still a c-bill sink for PGI

The only issue I can see is the uppity CW players crying..."We don't want these people in CW, give us experienced players in organized groups". Well..tough.....suck it up. You will get experienced players, along with some noobs. Just be glad you are getting NEW players for CW and live with the growing pains.

[CDLord HHGD]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2015 - 05:30 AM, said:

*yawn* ya know, when you twist what is said, after a certain point, it becomes a lie.

Have they tuned some forum posters out, due to abject negativity on the posters side? Yes. Do they always answer forum posts, or "log in" to check them? No. HAve they said that the forums are not representative of the entire community? Yes. Which is a fact. (Though if the rest of the community can't be bothered to speak up, well, piss on em)

I know for a fact Russ reads them, because he has skewered me pretty hard about a few of my posts.

Hearing doesn't mean the same as Listening, and Listening does not alway involve Answering.

Wow, what do you have to do to get a personal skewering from Russ? I'd love to have one myself.

[DONTOR]

Titannium, on 15 July 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

they alrdy stated , they DONT care about forum comunity.

Good its mostly people whining.

[Imperius]

PVE is the ONLY thing that can save MWO and make CW better. I'm not going to explain,there are many threads about it use the search bar.

Edited by Imperius, 15 July 2015 - 11:46 AM.

[mailin]

As stated previously, PGI is spending most of their time and effort on CW. Simple evidence for this is the number of new maps for CW versus the number for non-cw matches. One major advantage to dropping in CW is the experience tree. Only through CW can players get free mech bays without having to wait for a giveaway.

[DAYLEET]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 15 July 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

Now tell me if we rly play same game...ppl do not play cw bcuz it is worthless...and I mean WORTHLESS.

Well right now you get a mechbay at rank 2. Thats about 4 match, thats 2 hours of gametime and 2 hours of waiting time, pretty cheap for a mechbay. I believe it will be removed at beta3, i don;t remember why but when i listened to the podcast i thought to myself that i should start doing more CW, playing it is fun it;s just the waiting time i don't like. People who don't mind waiting 30minutes for a match should grind 2 rank in every faction. I don't myself feel forced to play CW though i do occasionaly.

JudgeDeathCZ, on 15 July 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

Conclusion is that you get more xp/gxp/cbills in normal games for same time in CW which means no1 play CW...it is not rewarding enough

Hopefuly CW don't give more cbills either, it's supposed to be that special play where unit play together regardles of whatever(like how it is right now). People who play a certain game mode because of better cbills reward are dumb. They tend to post their displeasure at having to play certain game mode and they deserver to be unhappy, simple as that.

[Johnny Z]

DAYLEET, on 15 July 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

Well right now you get a mechbay at rank 2. Thats about 4 match, thats 2 hours of gametime and 2 hours of waiting time, pretty cheap for a mechbay. I believe it will be removed at beta3, i don;t remember why but when i listened to the podcast i thought to myself that i should start doing more CW, playing it is fun it;s just the waiting time i don't like. People who don't mind waiting 30minutes for a match should grind 2 rank in every faction. I don't myself feel forced to play CW though i do occasionaly.



Hopefuly CW don't give more cbills either, it's supposed to be that special play where unit play together regardles of whatever(like how it is right now). People who play a certain game mode because of better cbills reward are dumb. They tend to post their displeasure at having to play certain game mode and they deserver to be unhappy, simple as that.

Well from watching the last launch party they mentioned units would be able to payroll their players. This along with the planet ownership on the map almost ensures the big credits in game will be made via planet ownership.

Again this along with other additions could be what was mentioned about downsizeing some of the units with alot of inactive players....

There is alot to this including future jumpship size limits as to how many mechs they could transort and all sorts of stuff. Jump ship ownership and fees, dropship ownership and fees. Of course ownership would make everything cheaper and so on. Travel distances? Many hints as to game design were given at the first launch party, even if they do change some of it.

The kicker to all of this is the next Steam launch party. They just have to have announcements to make.

Edited by Johnny Z, 15 July 2015 - 01:12 PM.

[Imperius]

I bet that payroll goes into the coffers and can't be touched it will be economy that may be useless if not done right.

[Johnny Z]

Imperius, on 15 July 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

I bet that payroll goes into the coffers and can't be touched it will be economy that may be useless if not done right.

Well from that original launch party I guess the planetary income goes into the coffers and the payroll gets withdrawn.

[Imperius]

Johnny Z, on 15 July 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

Well from that original launch party I guess the planetary income goes into the coffers and the payroll gets withdrawn.

Will it require thought to maintain will it require skill? If not why bother having it? That's my fear, if it doesn't serve a meaningful purpose why bother.

Not that I don't want it, it just better be very well done. Too bad they can't ask Activision/Blizzard about economy, they've done it for 15 years or so, and still struggle it's definitely not easy and at one point they had 12 million lab rats

[CtrlAltWheee]

PurpleNinja, on 15 July 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

I wonder what would happen if PGI molded MWO following ALL the instructions the player base gave to the then.

The Plan:

-Sell custom hangars at a reasonable price.
-Do maps that are more like Arma and less like an arena. Make scouting matter.

I love you PGI. I'm happy to support the game. Almost throwing money at you. Do these 2 things for me.

The hangars should be distinct by faction. For example architecture in the background, mechs walking in the background, banners.

There should be parts that are customizable. For example places to change color, change banner, hang christmas lights (not in the cockpit where they obscure vision), hang paper lanterns, hang halloween ****, etc.

Technicians should be standing around to help sell the scale of the mech.

I have enough mechs. I am saturated. Ya gotta sell me something else.

Edited by CtrlAltWheee, 15 July 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[Summon3r]

Darian DelFord, on 15 July 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

We have content?

does content mean depth? lol

[oldradagast]

Aim64C, on 15 July 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

The absolute first priority is a "friend" button.

Without such a basic thing, you simply don't have an "online" game. Even ******* card games on mobile phones have these and 'guild' mechanics where everyone beats up on a stupidly powerful card for rewards, or whatever.

Yet, in a game where I'm supposed to be part of some kind of organized team, I have to... I don't even know how to add someone as a friend. Someone sent me a friend request once, ages ago, and I accepted it. I don't think he/she/it has been online since a year ago, though. And that's just a failure of the gaming interface. We're thrown into games with a bunch of random yahoos and there's no way to say: "Hey, I liked that guy" or "Hey, that guy was new, but I want to drop with him a few times to help him learn."

Call me crazy... but before we do anything else, there needs to be a goddamned "friend" button.

Then we can add a "report" button or a "I experienced a technical issue within this match" button. Again, even phone games have this stuff.

My favorite - unless they've fixed this, the only way to put somebody on your block list in the game was (at least for a while) to FIRST friend them, have them accept, and then add them to your block list?!

Yup - a team game with no way to really meet up with folks you like barring random chance and people you know in real life... brilliant!

Edited by oldradagast, 15 July 2015 - 02:38 PM.

[PurpleNinja]

CtrlAltWheee, on 15 July 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

The Plan:

-Sell custom hangars at a reasonable price.
-Do maps that are more like Arma and less like an arena. Make scouting matter.

I love you PGI. I'm happy to support the game. Almost throwing money at you. Do these 2 things for me.

The hangars should be distinct by faction. For example architecture in the background, mechs walking in the background, banners.

There should be parts that are customizable. For example places to change color, change banner, hang christmas lights (not in the cockpit where they obscure vision), hang paper lanterns, hang halloween ****, etc.

Technicians should be standing around to help sell the scale of the mech.

I have enough mechs. I am saturated. Ya gotta sell me something else.

Your ideas are both silly and awesome.