945 replies to this topic

[Tina Benoit]

Hello MechWarriors,

Please share your feedback on this thread regarding Paul's discussion on ECM changes.

[Sadist Cain]

make it 60m you wuss

Sounds good, bring the heavy hand down, the game needs it.

[Tennex]

Heres a suggestion to information warfare/fixing ECM
Give all mechs Seismic Sensor by default as a "Radar"

Almost all mechs equip the module seismic sensor. It has become the de facto Radar of Mechwarrior Online. (don't freak out. Think of this change as just Seismic Sensor with more integration into Role Warfare)
Summary of what changing seismic sensor to Radar will do for the game :

• Active/Passive Radar
  
• True to lore implementation of ECM. That doesn't break all missiles
  
• Visual/Missile Targeting is the ONLY mechanic of Information Warfare right now. This change will fix that
  
• True to lore implementation of whatever the hell radar tech you can think of
  
• Null Sig

And here is the how:

By actually having a Radar mechanic you are are able to implement features that are true to lore.
Meanwhile the Radar(seismic sensor) portion of the game is still kept separate from the Missile Lock/Visual Lock portion of the game. What this mean is:

#1 Just because you see mechs on your Radar(seismic sensor) doesn't mean you can lob LRMs at them. Just because you see them on Radar, doesn't mean you can have damage information on them. (A problem the developers sought to get rid of from the old game.)

#2 Lore ECM: Having a separate Radar and Missile targeting system means that ECM can have the Radar jamming portion of its function (invisible from Radar, jams enemy's Radar), without the missile targeting interference. I.E true to lore and does not break an entire 1/3 of the weapons.


#3 You can tune/adjust a mech's Radar capability without hindering its Missile/Visual Targeting ability. I.E if you lower the Missile Targeting range from 1000 you can no longer effectively use LRMS. Whereas if you lower the Radar radius there is no effect on viability of Missile weapons. Worried that giving light mechs 2x Visual/Missile Lock will wreck the game? Worry no more, giving light mechs 2x Radar range is fine and encouraged! Worried that an assault with 600 target acquisition range will not be able to use LRMS? No problem just reduce its Radar radius.

#4 Passive/Active Radar! Turn off your own Radar(Seismic Sensor), and other mechs will not see you on their Radar. This means mechs will still be able to sneak around, and have that stealth gameplay.



Heck, devs can add Null Sig if they wanted to if it no longer has functionality overlap with ECM. Miss your Sniper Raven? Slap that Null Sig onto a Rave, turn on Passive Radar and it works just like ECM does now without the broken umbrella.

Edited by Tennex, 13 September 2015 - 08:33 AM.

[bad arcade kitty]

are you serious? you ruin the best tactical feature of ecm due to a lot of forum whining from the vocal minority

i just dunno... i am deeply disappointed in you

[Tastian]

ECM needs more then a range decrease. The Streak/LRM/ECM/BAP/C3/Artemis/TAG/UAV/target information relationship needs to be overhauled.

[bad arcade kitty]

>Further tuning will result in BAP ranges being reduced to closely reflect that of the new ECM range.

so you are going to nerf streaks? because it will hurt them, yes they will be able to get locks outside of 90m zone and outside of the new shrunk bap radius... but inside 200*1.25=250 meters (implying that bap still extends no lock zone by 25% and that zone remains the same 200 meters)... twice as slower

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 15 July 2015 - 04:01 PM.

[The Mech behind you]

Awesome! With all the ECM mechs released lately the number of ECMs in field is so high and every single one is carrying a 360m bubble. I have to play most of my matches in Thermal View lately to see any mechs. All those pretty maps and all I see is grey. I'm so happy about this!

[Nothing Whatsoever]

This is a fine step for ECM.

I look forward to changes for Missile Tracking so that ECM only counters extra goodies like Artemis and still allows missiles to hit an intended target.

I favor having missiles follow the crosshair / reticle until they hit or reach max range. Then have gear like NARC, TAG and Artemis increase missile updating their flight path when following the crosshair / reticle around. Then have missiles have different ripple fire patterns.

Indirect Locks then can be a separate system that could explore fire and forget SSRM bones targeting maybe or whatever works best. And Streaks would only use locks as a means to save ammo.

[Kain Demos]

I must say this being the first thing discussed about this pending "re-balance" has me worried now.

I will definitely be holding out on any further purchases until more details come to light.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

First off, this is better than nothing.

That out of the way, here is my objection: it still leaves ECM as an on/off switch. Hard counters are bad gameplay. The rework should be to redo ECM and information warfare entirely, into a system of soft counters. Have ECM impose sensor penalties against targets protected by it, rather than making them flat-out immune, and then make the various offensive sensor options give sensor bonuses against affected targets. This lets all the various information warfare kit interact freely, without having trump cards or on/off switches or hard counters.

[Mcgral18]

To be honest...it's barely a change. It's still the Magic Jesus Box that combines gECM, aECM, Null Sig and some fairy dust thrown in for good measure.


Either remove those magical properties, or give it proper consequences. Null Sig generates 1 Heat per second, which won't stop you from cooling entirely (unless you have 10 SHS) but will significantly hamper your ability to shoot while under the Magic Jesus Field.

To stop the 1H/s penalty, swap from Disrupt to Counter.



Changing the range really isn't significant, but I guess it's a start...I hope the next iterations have a tad more impact.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Tennex, on 15 July 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Heres a suggestion to information warfare.
Give all mechs seismic sensor by default as a "Radar"

Almost all mechs equip the module seismic sensor. It has become the de facto Radar of Mechwarrior Online.


By actually having a Radar mechanic you are are able to implement features that are true to lore.
Meanwhile the Radar(seismic sensor) portion of the game is still kept separate from the Missile Lock/Visual Lock portion of the game. What this mean is:

#1 Just because you see mechs on your Radar(seismic sensor) doesn't mean you can lob LRMs at them. Just because you see them on Radar, doesn't mean you can have damage information on them. (A problem the developers sought to get rid of from the old game.)

#2 Having a separate Radar and Missile targeting system means that ECM can have the Radar jamming portion of its function (invisible from Radar/Seismic), without the missile targeting interference. I.E true to lore

#3 You can tune/adjust the Radar capability without hindering its Missile Targeting ability. I.E if you lower the Missile Targeting range by 1000 you can no longer effectively use LRMS. Whereas if you lower the Radar radius there is no effect on viability of Missile weapons

#4 Passive/Active Radar! Turn off your own Radar(Seismic Sensor), and other mechs will not see you on their Radar.

Summary of what Changing seismic sensor to Radar will do for the game:
Active/Passive Radar
True to lore implementation of ECM
True to lore implementation of whatever the hell radar tech you can think of

I would much rather my ECM jam missile locks and hide my dorito than hide me from seismic sensors. I'm a sniper, disabling my opponents ability to highlight me and lob missiles at me is vital.

[Pasquatch]

The problem is that ECM mechs are everywhere and can group with impunity. ECM needs to be less prevalent, not have the bubble shrunk. Why not introduce a destructive interference mechanic where the closer to friendly ECM units are, the worse the side effects will be. It can run the gamut from the two ECMs cancel at the edge of the interference field (say 150m or so) to the Ecms destructively feedback once a critical distance is crossed (25m?).

In my mind, this allows people to bring the mechs that they want to play at that time, PGI gets to tweak the game mechanic to makes us all spend more C-Bills/MC, and seemingly always last in these discussions, gameplay hopefully gets better.

[Mechteric]

Why not just take out the ability to shield friendlies from GECM, then add Angel ECM as separate equipment? I just don't get it.

[Tennex]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 July 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

I would much rather my ECM jam missile locks and hide my dorito than hide me from seismic sensors. I'm a sniper, disabling my opponents ability to highlight me and lob missiles at me is vital.

I mean thats up to them, even with Radar, ECM can still have that function if they want it to. Point is having Radar gives us many other aspects of the lore and gameplay that we just cant achieve when Visual Lock/Missile Lock is the only form of Information Warfare, every other Information Warfare mechanic revolves around Visual/Missile Lock.

Edited by Tennex, 15 July 2015 - 04:04 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Tennex, on 15 July 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Spoiler

Heres a suggestion to information warfare.
Give all mechs seismic sensor by default as a "Radar"

Almost all mechs equip the module seismic sensor. It has become the de facto Radar of Mechwarrior Online.


By actually having a Radar mechanic you are are able to implement features that are true to lore.
Meanwhile the Radar(seismic sensor) portion of the game is still kept separate from the Missile Lock/Visual Lock portion of the game. What this mean is:

#1 Just because you see mechs on your Radar(seismic sensor) doesn't mean you can lob LRMs at them. Just because you see them on Radar, doesn't mean you can have damage information on them. (A problem the developers sought to get rid of from the old game.)

#2 Having a separate Radar and Missile targeting system means that ECM can have the Radar jamming portion of its function (invisible from Radar/Seismic), without the missile targeting interference. I.E true to lore and does not break an entire 1/3 of the weapons.

#3 You can tune/adjust the Radar capability without hindering its Missile Targeting ability. I.E if you lower the Missile Targeting range by 1000 you can no longer effectively use LRMS. Whereas if you lower the Radar radius there is no effect on viability of Missile weapons. Worried that giving light mechs 2x Visual/Missile Lock will wreck the game? Worry no more, giving light mechs 2x Radar range is fine and encouraged!

#4 Passive/Active Radar! Turn off your own Radar(Seismic Sensor), and other mechs will not see you on their Radar.

Summary of what Changing seismic sensor to Radar will do for the game:
Active/Passive Radar
True to lore implementation of ECM
True to lore implementation of whatever the hell radar tech you can think of

I like the ideas, need to explore these further; and if the devs do this I'd also like to get reimbursed for the Seismics I've bought!

[Pariah Devalis]

I like it. That is to say I like where it is going,though admittedly only you all in PGI know where exactly you plan to go.

Having said that, while this is a great first step, its interaction with Streak SRMs and LRMs could use a look at. In the case of the former, having it so that S-SRMs under umbrella cannot lock but can still dumbfire would work just fine. In the later case, I am honestly not sure how to resolve LRMs issues with untargetable enemies.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 15 July 2015 - 03:13 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

I am fine with an ECM range decrease, even down to 60meters. What I don't want you guys to get any funny ideas about is getting rid of it's ability to hide my dorito at long range, and interfering with lock on systems.

I use ECM FIRST to protect MYSELF from being highlighted, and missile locked. Sharing it with friends is just a bonus that I use out of curtousy; take that away before you take away my missile defense system.

[Dagorlad13]

Not as bad as I thought, but this is just more grease for the squeaky wheels. I would much rather see attention being focused on making CW matches more rewarding and significant.

[Flutterguy]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 July 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

I am fine with an ECM range decrease, even down to 60meters. What I don't want you guys to get any funny ideas about is getting rid of it's ability to hide my dorito at long range, and interfering with lock on systems.

I use ECM FIRST to protect MYSELF from being highlighted, and missile locked. Sharing it with friends is just a bonus that I use out of curtousy; take that away before you take away my missile defense system.

Your logic makes AMS sad... ECM really shouldn't be the go to system to stop missiles.