945 replies to this topic

[HammerMaster]

New release of Shadow Cat, Arctic Cheetah and Cbill Cataphract 0x is a grand total of 9! MECHS! WITH! ECM! Because we all know if you have 4 variants of an ECM Omni-Mech...You mount the ECM Omni-pod. So nerf of range does nothing for 9 mechs carrying overpowered jesus box. Rework ECM. Rework LRMs. Rework C3 computer.

Edited by HammerMaster, 24 July 2015 - 10:46 AM.

[Christopher Hamilton]

why bother about range. make it canon.
if you can see it, you can shoot it (LRMs).
indirect fire = penalty
shared target locks require C3 computer network (tonnage, IS only), unless you have LOS to the spotting mech in your team (canon: laser line of sight connect).

boom, problem solved.

and make it possible to override streak lockon for unaimed shots please - it sucks if you end up in a match with 11 enemy ECMs in your streak locust with BAP and TAG and get killed with zero damage because stuff wont fire at all. too many ECMs... too many ECMs.

[HammerMaster]

So do we have a consensus or what? That PGI ECM is garbage and that Canon ECM should have been implemented? And that built in C3 it incorrect and that LRM LoS and Indirect vs Direct well... you get the picture.

Edited by HammerMaster, 24 July 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[Galenit]

Marcs Birger, on 20 July 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

While indeed a much needed change, the core mechanics must change.

ECM must be changed from a radar stealth field, information and guided missile denial system to an information denial system and guided missile counter measure.

This means ECM should no longer make the user and those around them incapable of being targeted. Instead ECM will deny those who are targeting the user and those within the 180m bubble from transmitting their location information as well as an increased time to gather Target Information(Paper Doll data as well as missile lock on times.

The systems that denied or bypassed ECM are to be changed back. UAV, NARC, TAG, and Beagle Active Probe will no longer disable and or bypass ECM. The user with that equipment will be the only one benefiting from the increased data reception, but will be unable to transmit it.

BAP will instead allow the user who has it installed to detect if there is an ECM user near by. This means those who do not have BAP installed will not receive the "Low Signal" warning.

PPCs and another ECM however will still be capable to disrupting an enemy ECM.

ECM should also change how missiles behave. Instead of denying a lock on to LRMs and SSRMs, ECM will disable LRM and SRM ARTERMIS IV equipped enhancements turning them in to standard LRMS and SRMs. Standard LRMs and SSRMs will remain the same, but the moment they enter the ECM field their flight pattern will be scrambled and become erratic,similarly to how they behaved in Beta, leading to an increase to missile spread or even a possible miss on some missiles.

After a stroke and a holiday after the logopedics, i read again this forum.

This topic remembers me to some old posts ...
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3946603
... its about lrms and ecm.

If you find the topic where the devs wanted input about ecm changes (not this one), you can maybe find more details about this, but i didnt find the topic or my post...

Edited by Galenit, 24 July 2015 - 12:38 PM.

[Cervantes88]

They changed ECM ? Played for 3 days straight, did not notice any difference. Still works as a personal Jesus Field.

[bad arcade kitty]

with the current ecmgeddon bap needs an urgent buff so it could counter 2 ecm mechs at once, when more than half of enemies have ecm it makes a perfect sense

[Túatha Dé Danann]

Funny how all people talk about LRMs. The last time I used them was... 2 years ago.

ECM is used to deny a zero risk weapon with a reward. I suggest, that the designers take a field trip in that topic.

I don't have a problem with LRMs. Even in a team without ECM they get shot down to a pulp by direct fire weaponry. Cover, AMS and the need for a spotter makes them already dependent and if the LRMs boats just stand back this team will lose - ECM or not.

Still, as LRMs are in fact a zero risk weapon (can be fired under cover) they need some sort of adjustment. Maybe the introduction of Laser AMS? Force the LRM boats to coordinate fire to overcome AMS, add additional dependencies for indirect fire, lower the dps... whatever. You get the point.

What I find more problematic is the current impelemtation of Streaks - esp. regarding their lock-on. I'd like to see streak being able to lock on if they are close to an ECM mech and more in-effective, if they are farer away.

So my proposal for streaks:
- lock on on mechs without ecm: normal
- Lock on to mechs with ECM = range/2
- modifier for increasing that lock on: BAP, adv. sensor range
- Counter ECM should work on longer ranges than the ECM bubble itself (270m)
- ECM bubble should work on 120m
- implement a BAP and ECM synergy
- AMS should have a visible effect on streaks too

[ackstorm]

This may backfire with even more ECM mechs in each game, since one or two wont be enough anymore.

How about introducing a limit in groups like you do for the number of any weight class. No more than 3 of any weight, but also, no more than 2 ECM equipped mechs?

[013]

I don't see any reason to ruin ECM For Any reasons. If you shrink the range it shouldn't go below 125 meters. I didn't Pay Real money to have my Mechs Be Ruined. I don't appreciate the thought that you sell me a Mech that is set up one way then change it. Worsening it In Fact! The MWO Team is trying to please CRY babies. CRY ENGINE Bowing To CRY BABIES. Not Joking. We Let Slide That Inner Sphere Quirks Besting Clan Weapons Range. This Wont Just Slide By.

Edited by 013, 24 July 2015 - 04:37 PM.

[Rampage Starfire Hall]

It's nice that the "Magic Bubble" is being shrunk, sadly it is still a "Magic Bubble"

A thorough revision or ECM and it's interactions is needed, less blind wall, and instead of preventing LRM's how about allowing locks with no info gathering, and add a significant spread to inbound missles (so that a percentage miss entirely)

[Necart]

ECM should be nerfed quick to 90 or better to 60 meters.

[Summon3r]

HammerMaster, on 24 July 2015 - 10:45 AM, said:

New release of Shadow Cat, Arctic Cheetah and Cbill Cataphract 0x is a grand total of 9! MECHS! WITH! ECM! Because we all know if you have 4 variants of an ECM Omni-Mech...You mount the ECM Omni-pod. So nerf of range does nothing for 9 mechs carrying overpowered jesus box. Rework ECM. Rework LRMs. Rework C3 computer.

this, and get it done for next patch!!!! the state of this game is at an all time joke with the numbers of ECM umbrellas out there

[Desintegrator]

During the last days, I only saw ECM Mechs on the battlefield !

Sometime there were 9 ECM Mechs on a single team !

So, we don't need 180m ECM radius. Please change it to 60m. This would be great ! Thanks !

[jay35]

On the whole, ECM is the one piece of equipment with the most functional counters (Tag, BAP, NARC, an enemy ECM in counter mode, hitting the ECM mech with a PPC, and destroying the component that bears the ECM, to name a few) despite it only directly affecting two weapon systems (LRMs and Streaks) and moderately affecting target acquisition and info gathering.

ECM has never stopped a laser, bullet, gauss round, SRM missile, or PPC blast from hitting its target. Anyone acting like ECM is godmode lacks a fundamental grasp of MWO gameplay and battlefield tactics.

ECM as it is today is actually fine, however with the addition of so many ECM-capable mechs, I can see the value in reducing its effective range.

I do hope that the result of the nerf does not render it a worthless piece of equipment such that it becomes not worth taking due to the many existing counters, plus its weight and its fixed location, plus its range nerf.

Perhaps as a slight balance to the significant range nerf we can free it up to function in the mechlab like heatsinks, i.e., a piece of equipment that can be mounted on any body component part with two slots of space available. This would slightly increase the equipment's survivability, since currently everyone knows precisely where to shoot ECM mechs to destroy the ECM. This would help incentivize players to still bring ECM despite its pathetic range post-nerf.

As a side note, the public (solo and group) queue assault lance will suffer most with this change, given how spawn points currently work on maps, due to the distances over which they need ECM coverage in order to safely cross open areas to reach the other friendly lances. There are many examples on the current maps where the full 180m range of ECM is necessary just to try to keep the assaults in the bubble to protect them from LRM spammers. This common gameplay scenario will be the situation where the ECM nerf is most directly felt.

Edited by jay35, 24 July 2015 - 09:03 PM.

[Tank]

Truth is.... ECM mech count skyrocketed, that means that other weapon creates serious threat to those who choose to carry ECM. And those who wish to nerf ECM even further have no desire of teamplay in the first place, when do you guys see boats deploy NARC support? Right... almost never.

Meanwhile ECM is crucial for assault operations just to not to be face bamboozled by all the swarming LRMs in your face - even if they not damage a lot, when entire team opposite have them, it's enough to blind anyone.

That's right, if you not gonna play trench warfare - what you can do in regular battles, and actually do something, and you are forced to do something in Community Warfare because you need to take an objectives - you must go out and face everything. Not even complaining about laser vomit emplacements...

We have serious problems when moving to "Objective Based" gameplay...

P.S. I dare you... Nerf ECM even more - there be nothing but ECM mechs out there.

[Túatha Dé Danann]

jay35, on 24 July 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

ECM has never stopped a laser, bullet, gauss round, SRM missile, or PPC blast from hitting its target. Anyone acting like ECM is godmode lacks a fundamental grasp of MWO gameplay and battlefield tactics.

+1

[Nightshade24]

Heskolt, on 21 July 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

I find it truly sad that the most common response to this post is, essentially "Screw my team, nerf it all you want! As long as it doesn't affect ME it's fine!"

It's already difficult finding people willing to run ECM as support, and 90 or 60m max range will basically *make* it a self-only tool. I doubt there's many locations on any map where you could fit 4 mechs, let alone 12, within a 90m radius and actually have them under cover and able to fire on enemies.

The end result of this is not going to be what you want - it's going to be the return of the lurm boats of old.

The thing is in cannon/ lore it has a 0 meter range...

That or you get the special uber duper Angel ECM that has some coverage range but it is later tech as well as a tad iffy...
It's like complaining that a soldiers helmet is stupid and selfish as it doesn't cover the whole platoon... it doesn't really work that way and you may see it as a hindrance to team work failure but now it increases team work due to the fact that LRM's and SSRM's can be used more reliably now. In fact this improves team work overall then hinders it .

[RedDawnPhoenix]

I think PGI really needs to make Guardian ECM act like it is actually supposed to. Secondly Angel ECM needs to be added to offset the change, it also should be heavier and more expensive compensate for it blocking target locks. Also maybe the ultimate fix would be to also add C3 computers only to the mechs that actually can have it and make targeting system changes as a whole. Either way Guardian ECM should not be acting the way it acts now because it does NOT do that... at all.

[PlzDie]

Agreed, what we got now is Guardian ECM, Angel ECM and Stealth armour all rolled into one for the low low cost of only 1\1.5 tons.
The bubble and stealth needs to go, LRM's should not be able to lock on shared target info if the target is not narced or tagged but should always be able to lock in case of LOS, in the case of a ECM mech lock on should take longer.

[bad arcade kitty]

meanwhile they can buff bap making it counter more than 1 ecm and possibly even extending its range to 350 or so