945 replies to this topic

[wandering Baker]

Stop permanent changes! Think about new game modes! I call to you!

[Aiden Skye]

As others have said, Magic ECM with is broken Umbrella needs to go and it needs to function closer to how it does in lore.
Active / Passive sensors need to be implemented as well.

[Zolaz]

So your massive change to ECM is to half its range? How about you do some programming and make ECM the way it is supposed to be?

[Polkastein]

How about just make an ECM affect only the mech it is equipped on? No bubble. Then BAP changed to only let the BAP equipped mech see the ECM covered mech within its range. Problem solved. You may need to remove ECM hard points in this instance and make ECM a standard item like BAP. You can choose to equip it or not.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

W A R K H A N, on 18 July 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

As others have said, Magic ECM with is broken Umbrella needs to go and it needs to function closer to how it does in lore.
Active / Passive sensors need to be implemented as well.

No bubble? fine; cool with me.

Like in lore? ONLY if Passive/Active Sensors are implemented first or simultaneously. LRMs don't get to have a little LURMageddon grace period for a few weeks to relieve their pent up anger for not being able to fire on ECM'd targets for so long. They need to immediately go from being kept in check by ECM to being kept in check by passive sensors.

Zolaz, on 18 July 2015 - 05:10 AM, said:

So your massive change to ECM is to half its range? How about you do some programming and make ECM the way it is supposed to be?

If by supposed to be, you mean like tabletop, I believe another user has already explained why a TT ECM would be next to useless in the current game.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 18 July 2015 - 09:40 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

How about just make an ECM affect only the mech it is equipped on? No bubble.

This. ECM bubble needs to go. ECM only weighs 1.5 tons. Even a 90m magic missile super shield is too much.

Especially since teams will just take more ECM mechs to get the same ECM coverage as before... and ECM will still be problematic.

If you want everyone to have access to stealth then add passive sensor mode instead.

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[Anunknownlurker]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned - too many pages to read - but:

3x mode ECM
1. Protect individual mech - lights for scouting/sniping
2. Bubble protect - 60m (lance scale?)- heavies/assaults for protecting friends
3. Counter either of the above

[Night Thastus]

When can we expect this change to ECM?



C'mon.
Like.
Now.

Naooooooooooo

[Mystere]

Great move PGI, if albeit sneaky. Given the vast spectrum of feedback, you will not be accused of not listening.

[FireDog]

Along the lines of "Keep it Simple" here's my two bits on ECM.

1. Current 1-1.5 ton ECM packages provide self protection only! Only the mech it is mounted on.

2. A new 6-8 ton ECM package provides the current extended bubble protection for a team.


Many more realistic options can be added later as PGI improves the code. Variables that mimic all aspects of ECM, ECCM (Active jamming) and even ESM (passive sensors) can be added. Just don't forget the anti-radiation guided Arrow missiles. Those could be a lot of fun.

Edited by FireDog, 18 July 2015 - 11:34 AM.

[Tank]

W A R K H A N, on 18 July 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

As others have said, Magic ECM with is broken Umbrella needs to go and it needs to function closer to how it does in lore.
Active / Passive sensors need to be implemented as well.

Only if we get rest of things as in lore. Until that, no way - it serves positive porous in current mess.

[Livewyr]

Tank, on 18 July 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Only if we get rest of things as in lore. Until that, no way - it serves positive porous in current mess.

Other things should be closer to lore.

That being siad... I'd like to see one good argument for keeping ECM as an on-off switch for an entire class of weapons, instead of making it an electronic warfare tool. (And fixing the class of weapons)

----------
Even once it gets it's range cut in half.. it's still the only single piece of equipment in the game that will have you mocked (deservedly) for going without on an ECM capable mech. Period.

Nothing else can say that without reasonable doubt.

[Rushmoar]

Polkastein, on 18 July 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

How about just make an ECM affect only the mech it is equipped on? No bubble. Then BAP changed to only let the BAP equipped mech see the ECM covered mech within its range. Problem solved. You may need to remove ECM hard points in this instance and make ECM a standard item like BAP. You can choose to equip it or not.

This is the worst idea I have seen on this post. You want all 12 mechs to be able to carry ECM. Yup, problem solved.

[bad arcade kitty]

Mystere, on 18 July 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

Great move PGI, if albeit sneaky. Given the vast spectrum of feedback, you will not be accused of not listening.

you are kidding
they don't care of our feedback and will make w/e they want anyway

[Steve Pryde]

vetal l, on 15 July 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

great start. ECM was overpowered.

This change will do only one thing: more ECM mechs on battlefield. Overhaul the complete ECM mechanic together with LRM changes. Or do it like the first post in this thread lol. Sounds like the same sensor/targeting system from MW2/3/4. xD

[Zolaz]

bad arcade kitty, on 18 July 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

you are kidding
they don't care of our feedback and will make w/e they want anyway

[vetal l]

Steve Pryde, on 18 July 2015 - 02:58 PM, said:

This change will do only one thing: more ECM mechs on battlefield. Overhaul the complete ECM mechanic together with LRM changes. Or do it like the first post in this thread lol. Sounds like the same sensor/targeting system from MW2/3/4. xD

We'll see. But still - if you want ECM so stay closer to ECM mech. Or (the other side) - if you want ECM rewards - cover as many mechs as you can, just dont run circles under your own umbrella.

[NotGiggity32]

I apologize in advance if this is redundant.

I don't believe I have seen anything mentioned about the use of Radar Deprivation modules. I use them religiously and I imagine a lot of other players use them a lot too. I am concerned that Guardian ECM is being blamed for things that may in part be caused by the use of Radar Deprivation or a combination of the two. If ECM is the Jesus Box than Radar Deprivation Modules are The Holy Spirit. Throw in some thermo-nuclear devices and you would have the entire Holy-Trinity.

I use mechs with lrms and although it is difficult to get locks, it is by no means impossible. I always equip my mechs with a UAV and almost all of the mechs with missiles have TAG equipped as well. It is frustrating when you launch a UAV and it lasts 10 seconds or less but that is just a fact of MWO life. I used to be in the camp that the TAG was worlthless and the one ton could be better used for another ton of ammo, a heat sink, or another medium laser. I eventually came around and understood the value of TAG and equip it sometimes on mechs that don't even have lrms to assist with busting through ECM. The point I am trying to make here is that there are several systems in place that can be used to counter ECM. If more players would use these systems regularly and not rely on unknown teammates in PUG matches to do it for them than I don't think this would be that big of an issue. Keep in mind that these systems benefit all of a team not just the people toting lrms.

If you are not using TAG, the Target Decay Module, and a UAV then you are destined to be frustrated. I also need to note that I rarely use streaks because at one point I had a UAV up, a Tag laser on a defenseless Dire Wolf, and a BAP equipped and couldn't get a lock on that mech because a Hellbringer was jamming me. I was very upset and my solution was to chuck the streaks for lighter weight more reliable strait srms. So I understand the side of this debate in which people are arguing that the range of ECM needs to be reduced. If the range of the ECM is going to be reduced, then fine, but please do it in small increments. Don't grab for the eight pound sledgehammer, grab a ball pean and go from there. Try it in a test server one week at one range, and then at a different range the next week and so on.

I would also like to make a quick comment on “sweeping changes” coming to the quirk system. I didn't like the quirk system at first because, well I don't like any change. However, I see mechs on the battlefield that pretty much disappeared before quirks. I have seen Dragons, Victors, and even a Quickdraw here or there. I feel the quirk system has helped to resurrect some mechs that very few people were using because they were outclassed by not only Clan mechs, but also other IS mechs. I think that is a positive thing. I don't like negative quirks at all. I bought the Victor Dragon Slayer the week before it was turned into a Dragon Slayer Bricktor and I wasn't too happy with that. I don't think the clan mechs need any quirks, their weapons are lighter, their heat sinks take up less space, and they can loose a torso with an XL Engine and keep going. That seems to me to be all the quirks they need. The burn time on the lasers does need to be reduced in my opinion, especially if you take the quirks away.

Lastly, you are trying to balance a game that has always been out of balance once the Clans and Advanced technology was introduced. The TT was out of balance. The battle value system helped, but it didn't always work as planned. Your best bet on balance is to create MWO 3025 and get rid of quirks and modules. Good luck trying to get anyone who has run a clan mech or IS mech with advanced tech to play though. If you make “sweeping changes” you are just basically starting back at square one and its three more years of attempting to balance this thing. That is irritating at the least.

Edited by Giggity32, 18 July 2015 - 03:16 PM.

[I R O N]

- Make BAP and ECM Counter ranges to 150m.
- Raise the Ecm Bubble to 300m
- Allow Ecm and Bap to stack.

So If i equip BAP and ECM:

-ECM on disturpt w/ BAP = 300m Bubble and 150m counter range
-ECM on counter w/ BAP = No bubble and 300m Counter (150m + 150m)

If BAP & ECM Mech (Distrupt Mode) Encounters another mech with BAP & ECM (Distrupt Mode)
300m- 151m: Neither one Counters the Other
150m - 0m: Both are Countered

If BAP & ECM Mech (Distrupt Mode) Encounters another mech with BAP & ECM (Coutner Mode)

300m- 151m: (Counter) Counters (Disrupt)
150m - 0m: Both are Countered


If Only ECM Equiped:

-ECM on Disturpt without Bap = 300m Bubble and No counter effects
-ECM on Counter without BAP = No bubble and 150m Counter

If BAP & ECM Mech (Distrupt Mode) Encounters another mech with ECM (Distrupt Mode)
300m- 151m: Neither one Counters the Other
150m - 0m: Both are Countered

If BAP & ECM Mech (Counter Mode) Encounters another mech with ECM (Counter Mode)
300m- 151m: BAP & ECM Mech (Counter Mode) Counters ECM (Counter Mode)
150m - 0m: Both are Countered


If Only BAP Equiped

-counters ECM 150m

If BAP & ECM Mech (Counter Mode) Encounters another mech with BAP
300m- 151m: BAP & ECM Mech (Counter Mode) Counters BAP and all mechs with in range are countered.
150m - 0m: all mechs with in range are countered.

If BAP & ECM Mech (Distrupt Mode) Encounters another mech with BAP
300m- 151m: Neither one Counters the Other
150m - 0m: all mechs with in range are countered.

Passive (ECM+BAP) stats should stack also:

(BAP) +25% Target range
(BAP) +25% Info Gathering
(BAP) Detect Shut down mechs 120m
(ECM) -50% Enemy Weapon Lock
(ECM) -25% Enemy Info Gathering

Done

Please give a reason to spend extra tons on electronics. In every other Mechwarrior ever made Ecm & Bap Stacked is the Ultimate in Covert equipment. I think it should be Possible to still Block out the Ecm bubble. However you should have to stack ECm & BAP to do it completely.

Prime example were this mechanic change would be needed is the Myst Lynx. Being forced to take BAP on a light like that and having ECM optional. By choosing the ECM on top the BAP you are giving extra survivabilty to the myst lynx and at the same time increasing its Scouting abilities. Not to mention it helps Modules. I dont need to take Radar Deprivation, Adv. Sensor Range and Target Info Gathering.

Edited by I R O N, 18 July 2015 - 04:08 PM.

[Mystere]

bad arcade kitty, on 18 July 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

you are kidding
they don't care of our feedback and will make w/e they want anyway

Precisely. And they're going to use this thread as cover.

Got it?