945 replies to this topic

[I R O N]

I think they will take our suguestions if we make real ones. Instead of Complaining.

[DraconX3]

If I had my way, this game would shirk all "balance" and run everything face value from the tabletop >.>`.....................................Whats that? you want to see what your friends sensor sees? Guess yall shoulda brought C3 =X

[James Warren]

I like to use ECM and I like to use LRMs (sue me!).

I welcome the change but I do worry that my ability to support team mates with ECM will be hindered.

What I would really like would be the ability to 'target/aim' ECM at a friendly (a bit like an anti-TAG), so that when you see an assault mech on your team taking volley after volley of LRMS you can actually do something about it. Currently, even running twin AMS, you feel a bit powerless - which is a part of why so many people hate LRMs.

I don't think this would make ECM any more powerful, since while using it defensively one would be limited in their ability to fight back, but it would allow it to be used more strategically.

[IIIuminaughty]

Ideas are not bad from devs to the community, but personally, I rather just have the ECM only work for me that would be fine. Put on active and passive radars, and add IFF. Now that is the the way to go.

Edited by IIIuminaughty, 18 July 2015 - 05:36 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Mystere, on 18 July 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

Precisely. And they're going to use this thread as cover.

Got it?

yeah, i see...

James Warren, on 18 July 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

What I would really like would be the ability to 'target/aim' ECM at a friendly (a bit like an anti-TAG), so that when you see an assault mech on your team taking volley after volley of LRMS you can actually do something about it.

cover it with your ecm bubble, what's the problem

[Sky Ferrix]

Seems promising. I like using ECM, but I welcome any change that could make role warfare more relevant.

[north ranger]

Back in Beta, ECM was revealed as a "game-changer" and everyone instantly recognized its power. Competitive teams simply had to field it for many reasons. Denied target info, missile locks, stealth movement, etc. Developers would claim the TAG laser as a hard counter....[color=#A4A4A4]
Posted 28 November 2012 - 12:55 PM[/color]

After some discussion within the dev team, we have decided to remove the ECM capability from the Jenner JR7-D. The first post will be edited to reflect this.

We would also like to remind people that the ECM is not all powerful. The rock to its scissors is the TAG laser. If you use it to hit anyone cloaked by an ECM, you and your team will be able to target them. Like any new addition to the game, this just requires a shift in thinking how to equip your Mech and/or team.


Now, it's always been fairly easy to pilot any mech with TAG, but it's never been taken off for some reason as a hard counter should. I mean it's not for lack of pilots bringing ECM! It's in almost every match! Even BAP and NARC were enhanced down the line to help out.

Maybe this is why ECM is left alone for years and now suddenly it's at the front of things to fix in MWO.

Anyways, for a passive ability that clearly requires a shift in *ahem* thinking and gameplay, either the counters need to keep improving (I'm not sure how .. maybe TAG points out all foes in LOS ) or ECM needs to be powered down. Personally, I'd like ECM to cancel data share between allies (so teams have to talk in comms), and slow but not negate targeting (to simulate visual and other targeting systems). Just my two cents.

~Cheers!

[Linkin]

I think this is great. Also, from the brief reading I did, it seems quirks etc, will make certain mechs have varying ECM differences. I may be reaching, but that opens up variable sensor ranges for the future perhaps, and the golden age of role/info warfare! Ok... now perhaps I need to lay off the hallucinogens

[Khobai]

Quote

We would also like to remind people that the ECM is not all powerful. The rock to its scissors is the TAG laser.

LMAO did you really just say TAG counters ECM. youre funny.

TAG weighs nearly as much as the ECM itself. And unlike ECM the counter has no other real uses besides countering ECM. And even then its a poor counter at best since it requires holding the beam on target which is almost impossible to do if the target being tagged has any common sense. Not to mention it gives away your position.

The fact remains it should not be a hard counter system. Hard counters are NOT fun. Does anyone actually think rock paper scissor is a fun game?

rock paper scissors is a terrible model to base a game off of. Because it doesnt allow for skilled players to overcome adversity. Even a noob with scissors can beat a master with paper. A soft counter system would be much better because it would allow player skill to actually matter when engaging in electronic warfare. Electronic warfare should require just as much skill as other aspects of the game... thats how you make MWO into the tactical game everyone wants it to be.

Edited by Khobai, 18 July 2015 - 09:57 PM.

[Tali van zora]

Lrm boat is back?

[Dagorlad13]

Ok, make it Paul's way, or make it like lore / TT. Lore / TT = cancels Artemis IV bonus (within range) and stops target relaying (within range). Very simple, does not jam LRMs, or SSRMS; is this what you want?

Edited by IronClaws, 18 July 2015 - 10:25 PM.

[Rushmoar]

Khobai, on 18 July 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

LMAO did you really just say TAG counters ECM. youre funny.

TAG weighs nearly as much as the ECM itself. And unlike ECM the counter has no other real uses besides countering ECM. And even then its a poor counter at best since it requires holding the beam on target which is almost impossible to do if the target being tagged has any common sense. Not to mention it gives away your position.

You should not give out misinformation. TAG gives bonuses to any guided missiles (ECM or not) and almost gives instant feed back on your target. Be it what weapons is on the mech or how badly it is damaged which lets you know what area you should be shooting on the enemy. Tag is very useful. The problem is it does not make the user any c-bills for using TAG or NARC. I believe only UAVs give us any kind of rewards for their use. So why bring 5 lasers and a TAG if I can make earn more c-bills and XP with 6 lasers.

You do have a great point about people seeing TAG. Does not make any sense for a light to try to scout the enemy team if they can see a 750m light pen pointing at them. TAG should be invisible to all but the user and lets say anyone that has BAP. Maybe more people might put it on their mechs if it has enough benefits. I like what BAP does already but I see too many low signal bars out there.

[bad arcade kitty]

tag doesnt work in the ecm bubble period

[Kilo 40]

Khobai, on 18 July 2015 - 09:51 PM, said:

LMAO did you really just say TAG counters ECM. youre funny.

TAG weighs nearly as much as the ECM itself. And unlike ECM the counter has no other real uses besides countering ECM. And even then its a poor counter at best since it requires holding the beam on target which is almost impossible to do if the target being tagged has any common sense. Not to mention it gives away your position.

1. He did not say that, it was a quote from a dev post.

2. nothing you said there shows TAG to NOT be a counter to ECM. you just listed some drawbacks to using TAG.

[Mystere]

Considering ECM range is being nerfed, I require a give-and-take in exchange. I want an old ECM feature back: disable IFF (i.e. Blue Dorito) of friendlies caught inside enemy's ECM bubble.

W A R K H A N, on 18 July 2015 - 04:41 AM, said:

As others have said, Magic ECM with is broken Umbrella needs to go and it needs to function closer to how it does in lore.
Active / Passive sensors need to be implemented as well.

Lore? Then IS and Clan Mechs should follow lore too.

[Nightmare1]

ECM range won't do much except to further neuter the component. It's already pretty easy to counter.

[Mystere]

Livewyr, on 18 July 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

That being siad... I'd like to see one good argument for keeping ECM as an on-off switch for an entire class of weapons, instead of making it an electronic warfare tool. (And fixing the class of weapons)

ECM is what I call "disruptive" technology. As such, the onus is on the disadvantaged side to eliminate the enemy's ECM advantage, and the other side should do all it can to preserve it.

This game is supposed to be a thinking person's shooter, right? So force people to think.

[oldradagast]

Benjamin Davion, on 15 July 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

Hahahahahaha, yes, let's give more incentive to run the cheapest weapon in the game. LRMs. Yeah, **** this. **** this with a brick.

Yup. LRM's are the "cheapest" weapon in the game. That's why no competitive team runs them, you rarely see them at higher tiers of play, they require boating AND good map selection to be remotely viable, they have more hard counters than any other weapons system, they take forever to reach their target, and they scatter damage like crazy.

So much cheapness, so much overpowered.

As for the proposed changes, the level of stealth in this game is stupid at the moment. Between ECM and Radar Derp, somewhere the game morphed into "hide behind a rock and snipe people Online." A lame situation, and one that needs addressing.

[Silverfang22]

With this change can we get some better visual feedback of where your team's ECM actually is? I'd love to see a semi-transparent radius on the minimap around friendly ECM-equipped mechs.

[kilgor]

I'd say to let ECM counter BAP, Targeting Computers, NARC, but also dial back the range of LRMS some. LRMs were meant to be a support weapon, so the original 720M was okay.