99 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Saxie, on 27 July 2015 - 08:56 PM, said:

Sync drop was a boogey man created by mudhutwarrior and buddies. It just gave an out for people to complain.... The sync drops didn't happen as often as you would have liked.

PGI has data that neither you nor I can see. They know how often it happened and that's good enough for me.

[Discojaddi]

As someone who plays this game A LOT but has not joined a unit, I feel the need to put in my 2 cents. From my perspective, when I drop Solo que, I almost always get shredded by a clan premade, and only every now and then actually end up the 11th or 12th wheel on a mostly premade IS team. Even rarer than both the above is a legitimate pug v pug battle. Looking at this topic in its entirety, the people saying "I don't fight premades often" are typically rocking a nice Wolf, Jade Falcon, Ghost Bear, or Smoke Jaguar logo next to their name. Comparing that to the current map in CW, where the Clans have captured Terra, (therefore winning in lore already) and are pushing into Marik Terriroty and threatening Liao territory says a lot.

Point number two is that typical bad Pug behavior (namely, retreating after being shot) plays into clan builds a lot better than IS builds, with the average clanner mech having much superior range but slightly worse cooling efficiency than your typical IS mech, and that advantage that is eliminated in a short range brawl that a lot of Pug games will never make it to. (Or at least not with enough remaining mechs)

I think its a case of there being a lot of IS puggers, and most of the games it pairs them up with the relatively few but very active Clan premades. I don't agree with the notion that "puggers shouldn't play CW" because CW can be a lot of fun and can be accessible to all, but it clearly feels like there is an issue. I know I personally don't set foot in CW without some bribes. I fight pre-made units of 10+ mechs an estimated 80-90% of the time I play CW, and the 30 min que is just not worth the reaming I recieve in the typical game.

[TWIAFU]

Dragonfodder, on 28 July 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

I don't agree with the notion that "puggers shouldn't play CW" because CW can be a lot of fun and can be accessible to all, but it clearly feels like there is an issue. I know I personally don't set foot in CW without some bribes. I fight pre-made units of 10+ mechs an estimated 80-90% of the time I play CW, and the 30 min que is just not worth the reaming I recieve in the typical game.

Ok, so you won't play CW unless your bribed to. Fine. People want all the rewards without any risk, if you feel entitled to them without participating in the game made as it is designed, that's your call. Just do not ask for changes to this mode.

So, CW is working then, you are facing PUG team 80-90% of the time, good. At least you are not using the BS excuse you are facing a 12 man Unit 100% of the time and have to be called out on it. So your PUG team is crushed by another PUG team.

You do know why you are always reamed in CW don't you? You are not part of a team/group. You face people playing as a team while yours is not and if they are trying, they are already at a disadvantage by being down a player from the start, you, for being solo player in a team environment.

[Discojaddi]

TWIAFU, on 29 July 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

You do know why you are always reamed in CW don't you? You are not part of a team/group. You face people playing as a team while yours is not and if they are trying, they are already at a disadvantage by being down a player from the start, you, for being solo player in a team environment.

This is exactly my point though. CW could be fun for everyone, including the unit-less, if it was treated a little more like your standard que, in that it will prefer matching pug v pug. Despite my general experience, I refuse to believe that there aren't clan pugs out there, I just want them to be less rare than unicorns.

[The Basilisk]

Dragonfodder, on 29 July 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

This is exactly my point though. CW could be fun for everyone, including the unit-less, if it was treated a little more like your standard que, in that it will prefer matching pug v pug. Despite my general experience, I refuse to believe that there aren't clan pugs out there, I just want them to be less rare than unicorns.

The point of CW IS that it is not standart puglandia.
Its point IS that you have to team up to be successful !
While I second the opinion that CW needs more to fight over, more incentive, more result more impact of your struggles, I dont think puggies and casuals need still need to be spoiled even more.

Let CW deliver good things to the Units and those ppl with the efford and the attitude to join together and be a community.
If you want to do more random grouping do random queues.

[Wildstreak]

TFU all over again, MS is the Gutsu of MWO currently.

[Discojaddi]

The Basilisk, on 29 July 2015 - 06:25 AM, said:

The point of CW IS that it is not standart puglandia.
Its point IS that you have to team up to be successful !
While I second the opinion that CW needs more to fight over, more incentive, more result more impact of your struggles, I dont think puggies and casuals need still need to be spoiled even more.

Let CW deliver good things to the Units and those ppl with the efford and the attitude to join together and be a community.
If you want to do more random grouping do random queues.

I'm not saying "destroy CW for the hardcore cause pubbies wanna play", I merely want CW to be more accessible and fun for everyone. On the opposite end of the spectrum, what would you enjoy more? A hard-fought struggle against an equally coordinated opponent, or pugstomp toddler beatdown #5723 in which the outcome was decided 5 minutes in? CW should absolutely reward units, but it doesn't have to be ONLY for units.

Edited by Dragonfodder, 29 July 2015 - 07:45 AM.

[IIIuminaughty]

You can't seperate the ques to pug vs pug and pre vs pre. Well you can but will divide the community. Unless you are going to make a whole new CW server one dedicated for those that pug and those that do premades. Wait times will probably be even longer. What needs to happy is reduce the amount of planets that are able to be attacked to tighten the gap between player bases. **** Innersphere only defends anyways. Out of all the planets that are capable to attack and defend on a good day its two planets for one faction. Two planets being attacked and that automatically means two planets being defended. Most factions have 5 or 6 planets to choose to attack from, not going to include the IS because all they want to do is defend planets anyways. But as the clanners even with the #'s they have they still just about attack 1 or 2 planets for each faction.

main point, not enough players, way to many planets to choose to defend and attack.
PS: forget the alliance clearly its doing us no good.

hopefully when they get the logistic working player base will jump back up and cw will have a meaning to fighting.

Edited by IIIuminaughty, 29 July 2015 - 07:46 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

Dragonfodder, on 28 July 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

As someone who plays this game A LOT but has not joined a unit, I feel the need to put in my 2 cents. From my perspective, when I drop Solo que, I almost always get shredded by a clan premade, and only every now and then actually end up the 11th or 12th wheel on a mostly premade IS team. Even rarer than both the above is a legitimate pug v pug battle. Looking at this topic in its entirety, the people saying "I don't fight premades often" are typically rocking a nice Wolf, Jade Falcon, Ghost Bear, or Smoke Jaguar logo next to their name. Comparing that to the current map in CW, where the Clans have captured Terra, (therefore winning in lore already) and are pushing into Marik Terriroty and threatening Liao territory says a lot.

Point number two is that typical bad Pug behavior (namely, retreating after being shot) plays into clan builds a lot better than IS builds, with the average clanner mech having much superior range but slightly worse cooling efficiency than your typical IS mech, and that advantage that is eliminated in a short range brawl that a lot of Pug games will never make it to. (Or at least not with enough remaining mechs)

I think its a case of there being a lot of IS puggers, and most of the games it pairs them up with the relatively few but very active Clan premades. I don't agree with the notion that "puggers shouldn't play CW" because CW can be a lot of fun and can be accessible to all, but it clearly feels like there is an issue. I know I personally don't set foot in CW without some bribes. I fight pre-made units of 10+ mechs an estimated 80-90% of the time I play CW, and the 30 min que is just not worth the reaming I recieve in the typical game.

Do you drop more on defense or attack?

I ask because I've found that for both IS and clan you will see more premades when defending since it takes a group of the same faction to attack. If you join the attack queue, you will be more likely to face a mixed group, since anyone can defend. True, I have a clan tag, but I've found the same when I play IS (my unit switches every month). It's not guaranteed, but it's typically the case.

It may also be that clan players are more likely to join a unit for whatever reason. I feel like that's true, but I have nothing but my experience to go on.

As to the builds and tactics, I think you nailed it there. IS mechs can often out DPS clan mechs at range (or in close for that matter). That's at least true for the most popular ones like dragons, stalkers, and jagers. If you keep a good firing line with good focus, the clans will wither quickly. It requires very different tactics than regular mode. A lot of people just aren't used to it.


My sense is that players wading into CW to try it out are usually entering on the IS side. The high cost of clan mechs (or at least the perception of high cost) and lack of viable trial mechs are a big turn off for newer players.

I do think that CW needs to be gated in some way. Maybe require at least 50 matches and no trial mechs (or only 1 or 2).

[TWIAFU]

Dragonfodder, on 29 July 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

This is exactly my point though. CW could be fun for everyone, including the unit-less, if it was treated a little more like your standard que, in that it will prefer matching pug v pug. Despite my general experience, I refuse to believe that there aren't clan pugs out there, I just want them to be less rare than unicorns.

We have and there must be separation.

We have modes for all gameplay types. Those gameplay types support certain playstyles. Different gameplay modes and different playstyles should not meet.

CW has been made more solo friendly. However, the tools they were given are not used in sufficient amounts to justify their creation, time wasted, and expense. Why should CW be made solo friendly further after that?

Why7 would you want to open CW to full on solo play? Do you really hate solo players so much you want to put them up against PUGs and Units? How much will PUGs and Units have to be nerfed to make solo players happy? Split queues so PUGs only play PUG? LOL. They complain now about loosing to other PUGs.

If you want to open CW to full on solo play, maybe you should take on a smaller fight and win that one first. Get PGI to make Group Queue open to full on solo play or get solo only queue to be open up to full on Group/Unit play.

Dragonfodder, on 29 July 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

I'm not saying "destroy CW for the hardcore cause pubbies wanna play", I merely want CW to be more accessible and fun for everyone. On the opposite end of the spectrum, what would you enjoy more? A hard-fought struggle against an equally coordinated opponent, or pugstomp toddler beatdown #5723 in which the outcome was decided 5 minutes in? CW should absolutely reward units, but it doesn't have to be ONLY for units.

It's not though.

It is PRIMARILY for Group and Unit play. Solo play is supported by filling out the rare 10-11man.

You want to put solo players higher priority over groups.

[Discojaddi]

I suppose I am having difficulty articulating my position on this.

I like the attack/defense style gameplay that is a refreshing break from the very similar 3 modes offered in public matchmaking, and the persistent map with territory to conquer is really neat. I don't want to punish or reduce the power of units in this mode, as I acknowledge that this mode is built mostly for them. However, I would like to play this mode casually in some manner where the fights are less likely to feel so one-sided for not showing up with a unit, or at least a pre-made group.

As a throw at the wall and see if it sticks suggestion, perhaps a solo que for just the game mode could be added, and the fight for actual territory left to units.

[Deathlike]

PFC Carsten, on 19 July 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

… it will die due to low player population and motivation.

Welcome to MWO. It's been like this since Day 1.

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- Ghost Drops are about the single worst thing you can do to player after they have waited 15-30 minutes in order to get into a game

I hate this from the bottom of my heart. It's only a "confirmation" to others that the opfor isn't going to show up. It's not even "there's not enough people from this faction" that it SHOULD be for.

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- PUGs vs. premades is #1 demotivational while in game

That's a sheer misnomer.

Part of the problem with CW is that PUGs don't have any sort of "CW readiness". This means poor dropdecks (using trial mechs), or just poor understanding of the game. This also includes lack of understanding of what goes on (like how to play the mode properly or at least to the best of one's ability).

I don't think it's required to join a unit... although it is RECOMMENDED due to the nature of teamwork as being part of a team helps. However, it's a separate learning curve that exists from regular non-CW play that MUST BE UNDERSTOOD. I'd rather recommend people going to a faction hub's TS and listen in and do what they are told to the best of their ability. That's kind what people are asking for... people mutually working together to succeed. I don't think that's too demanding of a requirement, unless you prefer to "do your own thing". When that is the case, there's no helping that type of player honestly.

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I realize that this is core gameplay... blahblah... But it isn't. It's dying because of no new player influx and that leads to long wait times, many ghost drops and less motivation to play CW. I just tour the faction for the cheap Level-2-Rank Mechbays, bear with all the described oddities and leave again.

CW burnout is real, so I'm "more than content" to just grind through this challenge instead of putting up with CW for the most part. That's how much I'm disgruntled with the entire system.

Quote

Just look at CW outside of events. It's a barren wasteland. Do you really want to continue that? Then please, use your usual "join a unit" sledgehammer-doubling-for-arguments. No, think! Use your brains. Realize that there's something totally wrong with CW. And nudge PGI to change that so they can keep earning money, we all can enjoy MWO and CW can thrive again.

"Joining a unit" is NOT A REQUIREMENT. It is simply RECOMMENDED to improve the communication and the desire to get better at the game overall. That's all. Calling it the "problem" is not understanding the fundamental issues that CW has. So, please stop with that... because it's disingenuous at best to just blame it on units.

[Astrocanis]

TWIAFU, on 27 July 2015 - 09:01 AM, said:

Let's see...

Who should we believe? PGI with data, data they released, stating premade 12man units are 1% or you, stating that you drop against 12man premade units 100% of the time with no data?

Hmmm....

Those stats (and damned stats and ...) are completely immaterial to my experience. First drop: faced 228 10 man with a couple of others. Stomped. Less than 8 minutes and dropship camped. Second drop (a couple of weeks later - I needed time to recover my self-confidence - yes, I guess I'm fragile): faced MS 8 man with another 4. Stomped. They didn't dropship camp. They waited for us to try to leave the dropzone before farming us.

Those were my first and last two drops. So, while 1% of the community plays 12 mans (which is a laugh because a competitive 8 man is close enough for the most part), 100% of my drops were against large premades.

I was told on this forum that I'm pretty much not welcome. I took that to heart. Enjoy your CW. It's obviously not for me. I hope it's "for" enough others that the game doesn't die.

[Hades Trooper]

As far as Russ and Paul think, CW is working as intended. This to me just supports my thoughts they don't want to give Cw what it promised to be that they sold me on in closed beta and now would rather have an arena E-Sports game instead

[MechWarrior3671771]

Meh. I spent $3,500 on a new rig just so I could play MWO Community Warfare. Its the reason I downloaded the game.

I also joined a competitive unit too, because you need to be on team to get the most from a Planetary-like League.

Now I spend most my time playing Conquest. Haven't dropped in CW for months, probably won't drop soon either.

[xxxRocketxxx]

I don't want to pub against premades
I don't want to premade against pubs
I don't want to wait 25minutes just to get into a match solo! Seriously, how does someone mess up matching making 25 minute wait time bad?

[KinLuu]

Dr Baja, on 02 August 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

I don't want to wait 25minutes just to get into a match solo! Seriously, how does someone mess up matching making 25 minute wait time bad?

CW has no real 'matchmaking' it is simply first come, first serve. So, if your side has a team and so does the enemy, the queue is instant. But if your side, or your enemies side, does not have 12 man ready, the queue is infinite.

[xxxRocketxxx]

When not playing an assault mech, I run in and die or just leave the match.
So I agree that CW could be improved.

[Greyboots]

Ok, this is nothing personal Dr Baja, your comments just lead into something that perhaps needs saying:

Dr Baja, on 02 August 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

I don't want to pub against premades
I don't want to premade against pubs
I don't want to wait 25minutes just to get into a match solo! Seriously, how does someone mess up matching making 25 minute wait time bad?

Why you don't personally understand is because it's not what you want. Which is fine, you are free to want what you want, the problem there is you might not get it meaning CW might not be for you.

Dr Baja, on 02 August 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

When not playing an assault mech, I run in and die or just leave the match.
So I agree that CW could be improved.

First off, leaving a match like that is a bannable offence so you might want to edit your comment accordingly.

Secondly, some of my best performing mechs in CW (in terms of damage,kills and survivability) are in Mediums. Ever think that perhaps it's you and not CW that is the problem on this one?

If people want to play CW then perhaps they should get good at CW. Otherwise I don't think much of anyone else is going to complain if they stick to Pub matches.

CW is founded on being effective with all mechs in your dropdeck and if ypeople aren't then they are just letting their team down. CW is not for solo play and to some extent I really don't understand why everyone expects CW to be for them. I come from a decidedly different background to many of course, MMORPGs, so I'm used to the idea that unless you are in a raiding guild there's just going to be content you never get to see and is not for everyone.

I'm actually rather surprised that CW is not gated in some fashion to save many people the heartbreak of being repeatedly clubbed like seal pups without warning when it's not for them OR they don't really understand yet that it's what is going to happen.

CW is about planetary control so it's NEVER going to be solo Vs solo. Queue against a top tier unit's planet and whether they drop in as a 12 man or all drop solo makes no difference. There's still going to be a roflstomping and no way on earth are they going to be kept out of defending their own planet. Keep in mind that although that's not currently where it's at that's where it's heading.

So CW could be improved BUT it's never going to be "for everyone". They aren't going to stop a unit from defending it's own planet against a bunch of low ELO players just because all of the unit's players are high ELO. It defeats one of the founding principles of CW.

That being said, I'm not against there being a "kiddie pool" version of CW where it's just pub queues to play the game modes with bog standard rewards, no planetary takeovers, no clan Vs IS factioning and no faction rewards. It would be a nice training ground for people to get a better understanding of what's going to be expected of them if they jump in the deep end.

[Zaydin]

The last three CW matches I did were pre-mades seal-clubbing pugs. So the people who deny it happens are bloody delusional.