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#41 NeonKnight

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:05 AM

Dear God! It is no different from any other game out there.

Mass Effect 3 had special armor Sheppard could wear if you already Owned Kingdoms of Amalur. It had weapons you were entitled to if you preordered but then you did not get the retail weapons. Other weapons had to be obtained via it's multiplayer, and others still from DLC.

I played ME3, but not the Multiplayer. OH NOZ I WAS SHAFTED! THE EVIL EA RUINED MY GAME!

Or how about APB (as a F2P Comparison). I play that a ton, Almost every day for 2-3 hours sometimes more. There was a special Walmart RETAIL pack (http://www.iceberg-s...b-reloaded.html) this game got you: *GASP*
  • 2 permanent weapons
  • Cisco Car
  • 500 G1 Credits
  • 30 Days of Premium account status
And this was for both your Enforcer AND your Criminal.

Yet is was never available in Canada, and myself and friend had another friend in the US Purchase it for us, and send us the details. And currently APB Offers all sorts of game bonus some are Limited Time Offers, some are permanent.

Again, NO DIFFERENT. The Founders pack is not some screw you over deal. it is a reward. Nothing more, nothing less.

#42 Veevslav

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:18 AM

View PostWolfclaw, on 05 July 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:



For the 1000th time, the founders package has nothing to do with in-game items. Its a collectors item for the fans of the series, the things you get are just a bonus.
What did you get as a collectors item? Was something physical mailed out to you? Was it a skin for $15*4 on a game that may or may not be played for more than 20 hours before you shelf it because it is so terrible to play?

View PostMaledictor, on 05 July 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

I've apparently had my thoughts run on a track different than yours.
I've loved BT since I was a kid, have spent money on the tabletop and videogame varieties of the game, and will continue to do so. This game represents the gleeful fruition of many years of what it's and if paying $120 sight unseen to support a company making a BT game helps that company, I'm all for it.
I will gleefully dump sums of money right into their pockets as fast as I can get away with it, because BT has always been an enjoyable hobby of mine, and something that my wife and children have come to enjoy as well. I honestly don't care about market valuation of my investment, so long as they make a fun game that let's me stomp around in a pretend mech and blast the heck out of other mechs for a little bit.
Mindsets like that is one of the reasons so many bad games are released based on good IP. People will "support" the developer because they are working with a popular IP. They are not actually expected to perform which hurts the IP in the long run.

View PostRadman, on 06 July 2012 - 12:58 AM, said:

I don't get the hand wringing over this. As others have stated for $60 you can get $80 worth of in-game credit and a mech that gives a lifetime c-bill boost. Quite frankly it doesn't matter if other mechs with c-bill boosts will be available later on or not. If you truly intend on never paying a dime to play the game then don't! For anyone who plans to support the game monetarily the founders packages are a no brainer if you have the $ available now. It would have been worth it just for the $20 additional bonus.
I'm pretty sure I read that the $80 of in-game currency can't be used to buy additional "premium" subscription months. I don't really care about that but understand why others would like it.
There's no bad business or mistreatment going on! They've given plenty of info regarding what the different packages get you. My birthday is in 6 days. If I get a little cash from that you can bet I'll be upgrading to legendary. I won't feel ripped off, foolish, or anything else other than elated. For my $120 investment I'll get 4 mechs each with an additional mech bay AND a lifetime c-bill booster, $80 worth of in-game currency, and 4 months of premium subscription! That's incredibly simple and easy to understand. Some of you keep looking for more and I can't figure out why. This actually seems fairly generous to me.
In WOT the devs big money maker is getting credits. That is what needs to be ground out most often. Reason I bought a type 59 finally was because it made things easier and less grindy. It is a fun tank to play.

View PostLorchan, on 06 July 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

I paid my hard earned $120 for three reasons:
To be a part of MW:O's beginning because the original game was so much fun I have complained for years that it was wasted by folks that did not understand its scope and potential.
To help in any way to assure the Developers that this is a Game worth the time and effort that they have already given and will give to continue producing good content while expanding MWO.
To get 4 Mechs, the $80 value, and 25% in game bonus for life.

Buy or Don't Buy, but stop trying to blame the Developer's for not giving you enough "value" for the dollar. They have more important things to apply their time to accomplish...getting this game done right for those that appreciate what they are doing.

Some of us just want a little more information before we jump in with both feet. So on a side note would you send $240 over here to JOE's mechtek ***** page because he has an "idea" about something that can be done mechwarrior related and needs the added cash to buy into the IP?(Dont actually do it, it is a sarcastic comment.)

View PostBigJim, on 06 July 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:


I'm not saying there will not be grinding, I'm saying I dislike grinding.
To me, grinding is the polar opposite of playing a game for fun.

By definition, grinding is the act of going through the motions in order to win easy money/gold/xp/etc.. in order to obtain the "thing" you actually wanted in the first place.

How is that any different to a day-job?

As someone who cut his teeth on UT99, Quake 2, etc.. I have a simple mind(set).
You found a server, jumped in-game and killed dudes.
You didn't enter a game because you wanted something *other* than the game in-hand, you entered the game because you wanted to be in that game, right then, right there.


To add injury to insult, the whole idea of grinding-type games is that you're constantly chasing that next cool thing, as soon as you obtain your Lvl-9 armour, you're no longer interested in it, you want that Lvl-10 armour - It's a crack habit mentality, except without the wild parties & easy women that go with it. (j/k :D).


*EDIT* Just to make sure I'm totally clear; I don't actually believe MWO will fall into the above trap, and I've paid an awful lot of attention to how progression works, how maintaining your mech works, etc..
Anymore grinding is what gaming is. The fun factor need not apply. Cough*Diablo3*Cough, Cough*WOW*Cough, Startek online cough* and the list goes on.... To enhance the game life cycle they think grinding is the way to go. NM the fact that MWO could simply release new single player campaigns that can only be accessed by those paying premium or buying the content flat out. Depending on how much of the previous IP they actually own they could roll in the stories and map designs from the all the other mechwarrior games as possible.

On a little side note I am on the fence and just trying to get a little more information before I buy into the game. Supporting the devs is fine, but I am sick and tired of dev's releasing crap product with minimal play cycle or fun factor and expecting to be supported in it. In this instance it is a matter of chicken before the egg or egg before the chicken. Are the devs doing the game because they love mechwarrior or do they see it as the cash cow? Cough *Microsoft* Cough..... If they love mechwarrior and are going to give us a lot of great future content with more than just a grind to this mech and these skills than they could be deserving of my support and money.
As it stands I still not sold as to the viability of the founders packages, I started this thread in an attempt to glean a little more information and share what I realized so as to help someone else make a decision if they dont have the answer yet. What I have gotten is a lot of fan boys giving me speculation about included features and raging that I would dare to ask questions of the dev's or try to make an informed decision.
As to my thought process, I live on a budget, I get $60 per month for spending on leisure activities. That is $720 per year. The $30 founders package is nothing special and I would not touch it with a ten foot pole.
The real debate is $60 founders package and hope for one months worth of play time out of it. We are talking 240+ hours of enjoyment.
Or $120 founders package and expect 280 hours of enjoyment out of it.
2-3 months of premium does not mean you will want to play it.

Either way, I still might decide to buy it. But I am on the fence......


View PostNeonKnight, on 06 July 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Dear God! It is no different from any other game out there.

Mass Effect 3 had special armor Sheppard could wear if you already Owned Kingdoms of Amalur. It had weapons you were entitled to if you preordered but then you did not get the retail weapons. Other weapons had to be obtained via it's multiplayer, and others still from DLC.

I played ME3, but not the Multiplayer. OH NOZ I WAS SHAFTED! THE EVIL EA RUINED MY GAME!

Or how about APB (as a F2P Comparison). I play that a ton, Almost every day for 2-3 hours sometimes more. There was a special Walmart RETAIL pack (http://www.iceberg-s...b-reloaded.html) this game got you: *GASP*
  • 2 permanent weapons
  • Cisco Car
  • 500 G1 Credits
  • 30 Days of Premium account status
And this was for both your Enforcer AND your Criminal.


Yet is was never available in Canada, and myself and friend had another friend in the US Purchase it for us, and send us the details. And currently APB Offers all sorts of game bonus some are Limited Time Offers, some are permanent.

Again, NO DIFFERENT. The Founders pack is not some screw you over deal. it is a reward. Nothing more, nothing less.

APB is a bad example of a fail developer. ME3 is on my wait list until the DLC stops and the game and DLC is for sale at less than $9.99. I have dealt with EA and they drop prices pretty quickly. Wont touch a Modernwarefare game unless it is rented. Got burned on Diablo 3, even with 240 hours into the game I feel shafted. IT was a non fun grind but I blew my monthly budget and had to try and get the most out of it. I at least made back $20 on the cash auction house.

Edited by Veevslav, 06 July 2012 - 10:25 AM.


#43 Radman

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 10:37 AM

View PostVeevslav, on 06 July 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

What did you get as a collectors item? Was something physical mailed out to you? Was it a skin for $15*4 on a game that may or may not be played for more than 20 hours before you shelf it because it is so terrible to play?
Mindsets like that is one of the reasons so many bad games are released based on good IP. People will "support" the developer because they are working with a popular IP. They are not actually expected to perform which hurts the IP in the long run.
In WOT the devs big money maker is getting credits. That is what needs to be ground out most often. Reason I bought a type 59 finally was because it made things easier and less grindy. It is a fun tank to play.

Some of us just want a little more information before we jump in with both feet. So on a side note would you send $240 over here to JOE's mechtek ***** page because he has an "idea" about something that can be done mechwarrior related and needs the added cash to buy into the IP?(Dont actually do it, it is a sarcastic comment.)
Anymore grinding is what gaming is. The fun factor need not apply. Cough*Diablo3*Cough, Cough*WOW*Cough, Startek online cough* and the list goes on.... To enhance the game life cycle they think grinding is the way to go. NM the fact that MWO could simply release new single player campaigns that can only be accessed by those paying premium or buying the content flat out. Depending on how much of the previous IP they actually own they could roll in the stories and map designs from the all the other mechwarrior games as possible.

On a little side note I am on the fence and just trying to get a little more information before I buy into the game. Supporting the devs is fine, but I am sick and tired of dev's releasing crap product with minimal play cycle or fun factor and expecting to be supported in it. In this instance it is a matter of chicken before the egg or egg before the chicken. Are the devs doing the game because they love mechwarrior or do they see it as the cash cow? Cough *Microsoft* Cough..... If they love mechwarrior and are going to give us a lot of great future content with more than just a grind to this mech and these skills than they could be deserving of my support and money.
As it stands I still not sold as to the viability of the founders packages, I started this thread in an attempt to glean a little more information and share what I realized so as to help someone else make a decision if they dont have the answer yet. What I have gotten is a lot of fan boys giving me speculation about included features and raging that I would dare to ask questions of the dev's or try to make an informed decision.
As to my thought process, I live on a budget, I get $60 per month for spending on leisure activities. That is $720 per year. The $30 founders package is nothing special and I would not touch it with a ten foot pole.
The real debate is $60 founders package and hope for one months worth of play time out of it. We are talking 240+ hours of enjoyment.
Or $120 founders package and expect 280 hours of enjoyment out of it.
2-3 months of premium does not mean you will want to play it.

Either way, I still might decide to buy it. But I am on the fence......



APB is a bad example of a fail developer. ME3 is on my wait list until the DLC stops and the game and DLC is for sale at less than $9.99. I have dealt with EA and they drop prices pretty quickly. Wont touch a Modernwarefare game unless it is rented. Got burned on Diablo 3, even with 240 hours into the game I feel shafted. IT was a non fun grind but I blew my monthly budget and had to try and get the most out of it. I at least made back $20 on the cash auction house.


Pre-paying is a risk. You will not get past that. They could announce tomorrow that the game is shelved and I'd lose my $60. I can afford to live with that so I paid it. Ironically my monthly budget for fluff is the same as yours. Though my wife frequently spends more on me because she can, great wife :D. I'm not sure there's a way to rationalize the cost. I did it for the early access, the founders mech and associated mech bay, and the additional $20 in money. We'll see if the premium account is worth it but it didn't factor into my decision.

What I've seen, and admittedly it hasn't been much, convinced me to take the risk. What I've read has helped make the decicion easier as well. I like the direction they say they're taking. Nobody is promoting bad developing by buying founders on little to no info. What they're doing is supporting an idea that they hope to see come to fruition. Your support in the form of $ for a founder's package will have no effect as to whether a solid game is released or a crap game. It's impossible to know at this stage.

Unfortunately we have all the information that we're likely to get. Trust me, I wish we had more info as well to ease my mind a little but mainly to give me some joy in anticipating the release. I really have a hard time believing the game won't be fun to play for at least a short time. Enough for me to get my money's worth anyway. It's mechs running around blowing each other up with at least an attempt made not to turn it into a slugfest consisting of only assault mechs.

#44 Acer Lerxt

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 11:20 AM

View PostVeevslav, on 06 July 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Mindsets like that is one of the reasons so many bad games are released based on good IP. People will "support" the developer because they are working with a popular IP. They are not actually expected to perform which hurts the IP in the long run.


Absolutely true.

Need examples? Try one as recent as Bioware's disaster of an MMO. We had an entire guild (along with many others) sending in beta feedback for months about the PvP in that game being in terrible shape, and it released anyway. Trying to post anything critical on early forums was just a recipe to get shouted down by all the fanboys. All we heard was the chorus of "This is Bioware-- they make GREAT games!" and "It's Star Wars-- it's got to be good."

Not so much, no. Time proved us right.

There are plenty of other examples (D3, STO, DCU, WAR, etc).

All blind faith does is give a publisher confidence that they can release a game that's unfinished or poorly implemented and still reap profits. If companies like Bioware and Blizzard do it, you can bet smaller studios under more pressure to generate revenue are at even greater risk.

People need to question what value they're getting for their money. Anyone who blindly says "well, it's got to be worth $60 because you get $80 worth of in game currency..." is either completely naive, foolish, ignorant, or some combination of all 3.

On the flip side, if the game is done right, and a solid product is put out, then by all means, support the hell out of it. But, the time to make that judgment is AFTER you get to play, not 2 months before.

Obviously, none of that applies if the expense is below your threshold of caring. Personally, I have a job/lifestyle where I can afford to spend $60 on a whim. I may end up buying a founder's pack despite what I've said above. But, for all the people who can't, it makes absolute sense not to put their money where someone else's mouth is, so to speak.

#45 Wolfclaw

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 11:41 AM

View PostVeevslav, on 06 July 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

What did you get as a collectors item? Was something physical mailed out to you? Was it a skin for $15*4 on a game that may or may not be played for more than 20 hours before you shelf it because it is so terrible to play?


My name in the game credits of a franchise that I have LOVED since I was a kid, a shiny symbol under my forum name so that all the idiots 2 years later who didnt buy one can whine and cry about how they want one. THATS my collectors item.

Good fight!

I believe I won.

#46 BigJim

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 11:52 AM

To be fair this thread that began about the founder's pack has moved onto new topics entirely, so some of our rants should not really be associated with the Founder's scheme per-se.

I will be getting a founder's, because what I'm after is a well made online Mechwarrior (and the MMO/community warfare type stuff is just a fat bonus), if MW4 had been half of what MWO is looking to be like, I'd have been all over it.

Edited by BigJim, 06 July 2012 - 11:53 AM.


#47 Veevslav

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:09 PM

View PostWolfclaw, on 06 July 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:


My name in the game credits of a franchise that I have LOVED since I was a kid, a shiny symbol under my forum name so that all the idiots 2 years later who didnt buy one can whine and cry about how they want one. THATS my collectors item.

Good fight!

I believe I won.

Didnt know we were fighting..... But glad to have a troll admit he is being a troll looking for a fight and future trolling endeavors..... Either way you are basing it on an assumption that people will care in a year or 2 about you having a title under your name. Further you are basing it on the assumption that you will still be playing this game in 2 years.....
As others have said it is a risk they are willing to take. I am simply seeking further fact before placing blind faith on the situation.

Blind faith, no matter how passionately expressed, will not suffice. Science for its part will test relentlessly every assumption about the human condition. EO Wilson

Edited by Veevslav, 06 July 2012 - 12:14 PM.


#48 Wolfclaw

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 12:28 PM

View PostVeevslav, on 06 July 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Didnt know we were fighting..... But glad to have a troll admit he is being a troll looking for a fight and future trolling endeavors..... Either way you are basing it on an assumption that people will care in a year or 2 about you having a title under your name. Further you are basing it on the assumption that you will still be playing this game in 2 years.....
As others have said it is a risk they are willing to take. I am simply seeking further fact before placing blind faith on the situation.

Blind faith, no matter how passionately expressed, will not suffice. Science for its part will test relentlessly every assumption about the human condition. EO Wilson



You're missing the point. Use your brain.

Sure some people are paying for the items you get, but the majority of us (I guarantee) are buying it as a collectors item. There will be plenty of other stuff you can buy later on, so quit your whining.

Russ himself even stated it as "a collectors item for the die-hard fans of the franchise". I only wish he would post that again to prove how ignorant you are.

#49 NeonKnight

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 01:06 PM

View PostVeevslav, on 06 July 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

APB is a bad example of a fail developer. ME3 is on my wait list until the DLC stops and the game and DLC is for sale at less than $9.99. I have dealt with EA and they drop prices pretty quickly. Wont touch a Modernwarefare game unless it is rented. Got burned on Diablo 3, even with 240 hours into the game I feel shafted. IT was a non fun grind but I blew my monthly budget and had to try and get the most out of it. I at least made back $20 on the cash auction house.


How is APB A Fail Developer? I play on the JOKER East Server, and there is always 200+ players at any time on that? Are they the best? No, do they have failings? Yes, are they failed? Don;t think so...game still being played and is fun to play.

#50 CCC Dober

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 01:10 PM

Oi, c'mon don't start calling names and stuff. What I'm reading between his lines is that he is actually sold on the game already. And now he's trying to put logic where his heart beats. It's bound to fail. He knows it, we know it. He'll buy in and we'll never hear about it afterwards :D

#51 Veevslav

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 03:09 PM

View PostNeonKnight, on 06 July 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:


How is APB A Fail Developer? I play on the JOKER East Server, and there is always 200+ players at any time on that? Are they the best? No, do they have failings? Yes, are they failed? Don;t think so...game still being played and is fun to play.
On 17 August 2010 Realtime Worlds was placed into administration. The administrators intended to keep the company trading whilst they attempted to find a buyer for the firm. If a buyer could not be found then the long-term future for the game was uncertain.[6] On 16 September 2010 Realtime Worlds announced APB servers were to be shut down "soon" with no specific date given.[7][8] On 11 November 2010 online games company, K2 Network, purchased APB for £1.5 million. No time frame for re-release or reactivation of servers was announced.[9] On 16 November 2010 K2 subsidiary company Reloaded Productions, announced that APB will be relaunched during the first half of 2011 as a free to play game,[10] renamed APB: Reloaded.[4]

Original Dev Went belly up..... That is a pretty big fail......

View PostWolfclaw, on 06 July 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:



You're missing the point. Use your brain.

Sure some people are paying for the items you get, but the majority of us (I guarantee) are buying it as a collectors item. There will be plenty of other stuff you can buy later on, so quit your whining.

Russ himself even stated it as "a collectors item for the die-hard fans of the franchise". I only wish he would post that again to prove how ignorant you are.

Calling something a collectors item is not worth much if it is not really a collectors item. The entire problem you are having with me is the fact I am using my brain and you are jealous about it.

You are assuming people will care about tags or skins in this game with in 2 years. Know what they say about those that just assume something? They make an *** of themselves..... Thus the reason I am asking questions. Now please try acting civil, I know it is beyond the typical troll but maturity can happen to trolls......

View PostCCC Dober, on 06 July 2012 - 01:10 PM, said:

Oi, c'mon don't start calling names and stuff. What I'm reading between his lines is that he is actually sold on the game already. And now he's trying to put logic where his heart beats. It's bound to fail. He knows it, we know it. He'll buy in and we'll never hear about it afterwards :D


I am just looking for more information and trying to decide if there is enough value there for me to buy in. I was going to boycott the game completely if I did not buy the founders package, but realized it was a null point since there is not as much advantage as I thought in the founders plans. But now I am still trying to talk myself in it and assumptions don't prove anything.

#52 Wolfclaw

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 04:26 PM

Do us all a favor and

View PostVeevslav, on 06 July 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

On 17 August 2010 Realtime Worlds was placed into administration. The administrators intended to keep the company trading whilst they attempted to find a buyer for the firm. If a buyer could not be found then the long-term future for the game was uncertain.[6] On 16 September 2010 Realtime Worlds announced APB servers were to be shut down "soon" with no specific date given.[7][8] On 11 November 2010 online games company, K2 Network, purchased APB for £1.5 million. No time frame for re-release or reactivation of servers was announced.[9] On 16 November 2010 K2 subsidiary company Reloaded Productions, announced that APB will be relaunched during the first half of 2011 as a free to play game,[10] renamed APB: Reloaded.[4]

Original Dev Went belly up..... That is a pretty big fail......

Calling something a collectors item is not worth much if it is not really a collectors item. The entire problem you are having with me is the fact I am using my brain and you are jealous about it.

You are assuming people will care about tags or skins in this game with in 2 years. Know what they say about those that just assume something? They make an *** of themselves..... Thus the reason I am asking questions. Now please try acting civil, I know it is beyond the typical troll but maturity can happen to trolls......



I am just looking for more information and trying to decide if there is enough value there for me to buy in. I was going to boycott the game completely if I did not buy the founders package, but realized it was a null point since there is not as much advantage as I thought in the founders plans. But now I am still trying to talk myself in it and assumptions don't prove anything.


Just do us a damn favor and leave. All you've done with your 11 posts is bit** and moan.

#53 BigJim

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 04:32 PM

*Edit at the top* A shade harsh Wolf?






View PostVeevslav, on 06 July 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

I am just looking for more information and trying to decide if there is enough value there for me to buy in. I was going to boycott the game completely if I did not buy the founders package, but realized it was a null point since there is not as much advantage as I thought in the founders plans. But now I am still trying to talk myself in it and assumptions don't prove anything.



I'll begin by pointing out I'm not a fanboy of anything in this life, but if the above question is being asked, then the answer is no - It's not worth it to you. :P
This is *not* a criticism of you, it's just an honest answer to an honest question.

Personally, I already know how the mechanics of Mechwarrior games work, give or take the odd tweak between versions, because I've played all of them, and enjoyed all of them thoroughly. (well, as much as you can enjoy a very short SP campaign that only last a week or so)
I already know I enjoy online FPSs, because I've played loads, and thoroughly enjoyed all the good team-based ones.
I already have a very strong suspicion* that PGI are going to do all the things I like about the above-mentioned games, so the odds are that to me it will be very worth it.

* Suspicion will have to do, because no-one can ever make any more detailed an analysis than that, about any game - Short of having a fully-playable demo which doesn't really work for a FTP game where more than half the point is you need to be online with everyone else in order for the game to work.


So given those points above, it's highly likely that it is worth it to me.



However, this thread is about your question, which is; Is there is enough value there to make it worth it for you to buy-in, and more specifically, is the level of advantage gained worth the monetary outlay of 30/60/120 Dollars US?

The reason(s) I say it's not worth it to you, is because what's being sold is not advantage. It's three-fold;
Choice, Recognition, with a little bit of Donation to the Cause thrown into the mix.


1) Choice; Founders start with 1x or 4x extra 'Mechs. These come with a booster, but C-Bills can be earned for free over time, so let's ignore that.
Founders' packs also come with X-amount of real-money to spend, but that can always be bought later, and a little at a time which is easier to swallow than $30/$60 up-front, so let's ignore that too.

I run 3 motorbikes IRL. Having 3 bikes does not gain me any advantage over my fellow man, nor does it make me go any faster (in other words its doesn't make me a more "effective" biker).

But it does let me choose how I get to work each day. It lets me choose to ride the big-sexy bike when girls are present, and run the cheap old man's maxi-scoot when I want to save fuel.

Just like in MW, my aim is not to be the most effective biker in the world, it's to have fun on my bikes.
In the same way, you will be equally effective in a basic free mech as you will in a fancy Founder's mech.

But the important thing is that if you enjoy Mechwarrior, you will likely have more fun among your clan/group if you have a choice of which mech you drop-in. Tis' all the same in life and gaming; More choice = more fun, sooner.

That covers choice.


2) Recognition; The founder' tag is nowt more than a little mark to say "I was there at the beginning."
For the same reason that vets keep their military badges years after they were discharged, and notice each other's unit-tattoos.
For the same reason that the alumni of elite schools and universities keep their old school tie, so that other alumni will recognise them years later when they meet in the board-room.
For the same reason that sports fans spend hundred upon hundreds of pounds/dollars for their team's shirt, year after year, so that everyone knows who they support.

Yes, there is a chance that MWO will not last long enough for this to matter, but that is a chance many people are willing to take, and for $30/$60, it's hardly the most expensive risk we take every day.

That covers recognition.


3) Donation to the "Cause"; Assuming (and this is the part where we must all go out on a limb somewhat) - assuming that the game will not fold a month or two after launch, the donation part is in recognition of the fact that PGI are not EA, Blizz, Sony, et-al.

It's basically a guy who set up his own company, who played BT as a kid (like many of the members here did themselves), and the nano-second he got the chance, he did something that none of those mega-corps above would ever dream of doing; He took a massive f/koff risk.

Game co's hardly ever take risks for the love of a thing any more, they're far too "professional" for that. (Amateur; "someone who does it for the love of it")

Like hollywood, the big companies take the safe, bland, risk-free option and hire the game equivalent of Micheal Bay to produce Call of Duty X - Space Commies!

It would be like me buying the rights to Warhammer 40K, and taking on all the risks that entails without the financial might of GW behind me should I fail.

Many people here consider that on it's own to be quite the achievement, and in this modern age there's not much you can do to provide your support other than with cold-hard money.

We can't go and donate our skills or livestock to provide sustenance while they work on the project, or till the land on their collective homesteads while the labour of love goes on, the world simply doesn't work like that any more; But if we genuinely think that we will benefit from this game we can put our money where our mouth is.

People do it all the time. Look at all those volunteers who spend countless hours in the run-up to elections. They have no guarantee that their guy will win, no guarantee at all that the things they want to see come about will actually come about.
Hell, they have no guarantee that even if they do win, their candidate is even telling the truth? It's 100% risk.

But they do it because to them it's a risk worth taking, because if it pays off it will be worth it to them.
That isn't hopelessly naive, it's the simultaneous calculated risk by hundreds of people who pretty much want the same thing at the same time.

And we had all better believe that those volunteers could have been earning cold-hard cash in the meantime, so it's definitely the same as donating money.

That covers donation.




I'm sorry to have gone on so long (Christ, this short post has become like a dissertation), but those 3 key elements are what is being "sold" in this package, and all three of them are based on the premise that a good, solid online Mechwarrior game is something you want to see happen & succeed, and furthermore that you're confident it will succeed.


If your objective is to gain advantage, then those 3 criteria are not met, and thus the Founder's package is not for you.
If you do meet those criteria, then it is most certainly is for you. :(

Edited by BigJim, 06 July 2012 - 05:43 PM.


#54 Radman

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 05:41 PM

View PostAcer Lerxt, on 06 July 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Anyone who blindly says "well, it's got to be worth $60 because you get $80 worth of in game currency..." is either completely naive, foolish, ignorant, or some combination of all 3.


Not many are doing it blindly and those that are may have other reasons. Way to paint with a broad brush and make yourself look naive, foolish, ignorant, or some combination of all 3.

#55 Veevslav

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:57 PM

View PostWolfclaw, on 06 July 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

Do us all a favor and

Just do us a damn favor and leave. All you've done with your 11 posts is bit** and moan.
Wolfclaw is an ***. It is proven. My thread is not the only one he has been a complete dick in. His mind works on one track and cant transcend that limitation.

View PostBigJim, on 06 July 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

*Edit at the top* A shade harsh Wolf?


I'll begin by pointing out I'm not a fanboy of anything in this life, but if the above question is being asked, then the answer is no - It's not worth it to you. :P
This is *not* a criticism of you, it's just an honest answer to an honest question.

Personally, I already know how the mechanics of Mechwarrior games work, give or take the odd tweak between versions, because I've played all of them, and enjoyed all of them thoroughly. (well, as much as you can enjoy a very short SP campaign that only last a week or so)
I already know I enjoy online FPSs, because I've played loads, and thoroughly enjoyed all the good team-based ones.
I already have a very strong suspicion* that PGI are going to do all the things I like about the above-mentioned games, so the odds are that to me it will be very worth it.

* Suspicion will have to do, because no-one can ever make any more detailed an analysis than that, about any game - Short of having a fully-playable demo which doesn't really work for a FTP game where more than half the point is you need to be online with everyone else in order for the game to work.


So given those points above, it's highly likely that it is worth it to me.



However, this thread is about your question, which is; Is there is enough value there to make it worth it for you to buy-in, and more specifically, is the level of advantage gained worth the monetary outlay of 30/60/120 Dollars US?

The reason(s) I say it's not worth it to you, is because what's being sold is not advantage. It's three-fold;
Choice, Recognition, with a little bit of Donation to the Cause thrown into the mix.


1) Choice; Founders start with 1x or 4x extra 'Mechs. These come with a booster, but C-Bills can be earned for free over time, so let's ignore that.
Founders' packs also come with X-amount of real-money to spend, but that can always be bought later, and a little at a time which is easier to swallow than $30/$60 up-front, so let's ignore that too.

I run 3 motorbikes IRL. Having 3 bikes does not gain me any advantage over my fellow man, nor does it make me go any faster (in other words its doesn't make me a more "effective" biker).

But it does let me choose how I get to work each day. It lets me choose to ride the big-sexy bike when girls are present, and run the cheap old man's maxi-scoot when I want to save fuel.

Just like in MW, my aim is not to be the most effective biker in the world, it's to have fun on my bikes.
In the same way, you will be equally effective in a basic free mech as you will in a fancy Founder's mech.

But the important thing is that if you enjoy Mechwarrior, you will likely have more fun among your clan/group if you have a choice of which mech you drop-in. Tis' all the same in life and gaming; More choice = more fun, sooner.

That covers choice.


2) Recognition; The founder' tag is nowt more than a little mark to say "I was there at the beginning."
For the same reason that vets keep their military badges years after they were discharged, and notice each other's unit-tattoos.
For the same reason that the alumni of elite schools and universities keep their old school tie, so that other alumni will recognise them years later when they meet in the board-room.
For the same reason that sports fans spend hundred upon hundreds of pounds/dollars for their team's shirt, year after year, so that everyone knows who they support.

Yes, there is a chance that MWO will not last long enough for this to matter, but that is a chance many people are willing to take, and for $30/$60, it's hardly the most expensive risk we take every day.

That covers recognition.


3) Donation to the "Cause"; Assuming (and this is the part where we must all go out on a limb somewhat) - assuming that the game will not fold a month or two after launch, the donation part is in recognition of the fact that PGI are not EA, Blizz, Sony, et-al.

It's basically a guy who set up his own company, who played BT as a kid (like many of the members here did themselves), and the nano-second he got the chance, he did something that none of those mega-corps above would ever dream of doing; He took a massive f/koff risk.

Game co's hardly ever take risks for the love of a thing any more, they're far too "professional" for that. (Amateur; "someone who does it for the love of it")

Like hollywood, the big companies take the safe, bland, risk-free option and hire the game equivalent of Micheal Bay to produce Call of Duty X - Space Commies!

It would be like me buying the rights to Warhammer 40K, and taking on all the risks that entails without the financial might of GW behind me should I fail.

Many people here consider that on it's own to be quite the achievement, and in this modern age there's not much you can do to provide your support other than with cold-hard money.

We can't go and donate our skills or livestock to provide sustenance while they work on the project, or till the land on their collective homesteads while the labour of love goes on, the world simply doesn't work like that any more; But if we genuinely think that we will benefit from this game we can put our money where our mouth is.

People do it all the time. Look at all those volunteers who spend countless hours in the run-up to elections. They have no guarantee that their guy will win, no guarantee at all that the things they want to see come about will actually come about.
Hell, they have no guarantee that even if they do win, their candidate is even telling the truth? It's 100% risk.

But they do it because to them it's a risk worth taking, because if it pays off it will be worth it to them.
That isn't hopelessly naive, it's the simultaneous calculated risk by hundreds of people who pretty much want the same thing at the same time.

And we had all better believe that those volunteers could have been earning cold-hard cash in the meantime, so it's definitely the same as donating money.

That covers donation.




I'm sorry to have gone on so long (Christ, this short post has become like a dissertation), but those 3 key elements are what is being "sold" in this package, and all three of them are based on the premise that a good, solid online Mechwarrior game is something you want to see happen & succeed, and furthermore that you're confident it will succeed.


If your objective is to gain advantage, then those 3 criteria are not met, and thus the Founder's package is not for you.
If you do meet those criteria, then it is most certainly is for you. :(
You forgot to mention early access on august 7th. Advantage could come from starting with a more expensive mech and the list goes on... As does the debate. My only question left to be answered is whether I can extend premium with in game currency, or will it be used for cosmetic improvements only.....

#56 Wolfclaw

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 09:05 PM

View PostVeevslav, on 06 July 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Wolfclaw is an ***. It is proven. My thread is not the only one he has been a complete dick in. His mind works on one track and cant transcend that limitation.


Tell ya what, we can just agree to disagree. I went against my own principles by attempting to even debate the subject, its virtually impossible to change someones mind. No point in even trying.

You have your opinion and I have mine. No point in continuing down the argument road.

Good luck with w/e you choose to do.

#57 Veevslav

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 10:44 AM

I think early access just sealed the deal for me and this little tidbit here....

Wednesday December 7th, 2011 is Wednesday December 7th, 3048.
http://mwomercs.com/...munity-warfare/
Clan invasion starts august 3049. Game launches Early access August 7, 2012....... Do the math....

The Clan Invasion (known to the Clans as Operation Revival) refers to the massive Clan invasion of the Inner Sphere, commencing with the arrival of Clans Jade Falcon, Wolf, Ghost Bear, and Smoke Jaguar in the near, coreward Periphery (The Rift and The Draconian Drift) in August, 3049.

Early access means clan invasion unfolds as you play.....

#58 Rhavin

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 12:17 PM

The Advantages to the founders packs are simple to understand for me.
$80 dollars of cash credits...$80 was said to be able to buy 8 to 10 medium mechs. So maybe light mechs 6-8 , mediums 8-10, heavys 10-12 assaults 12-15?
I have 3 additional mechs (useing the above figures lets just give that a cash value of $35),
4 additional mechbays (lets use DDO's Character slot price of $5, so that is $20) ,
3 months of premium +exp/credits 10 a month total of $30,


early beta access guaranteed. May not get into the beta right NOW, but I will get in on Aug 7th.

and not that I give 2 shakes of a Snub nosed PPC but I also get a nifty Yellow Founders tag and my nombre in the credits ...to some people its priceless though. For the purposes of this discussion it has a value of $who cares.

the 4 Founders mechs have in addition to a special skin/look an additional 25% bonus to credits from matchs regardless of win or lose, thats $priceless simply because random match makeing sucks and as a primarily scout player I see myself getting smashed in most of my matchs. the 25% bonus will help me stay ahead of the curve in my Jenner while keepin it repaired fully from match to match I hope, 25% more credits for the lifetime of the game in one of 4 viable chassis will never hurt you though.

No matter how you do the math 80+35+30+20+who cares+ priceless = priceless all.

#59 SuomiWarder

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 01:12 PM

The original post had a question about game currency types. After the mech lab pics were released they showed MC and C-Bills as the two types of currency used in the lab. Devs confirmed that "MC"s were MechWarrior Credits, the type of game currency you can purchase. These can be used for more MechBays and more Mechs - other uses unknown at this time (presumably any content like special skins, and such).

C-Bills are earned in game and can also be used to buy Mechs plus deal with repairs, upgrades and such.

No word on if and when MCs can be converted to C-Bills.

#60 Veevslav

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostSuomiWarder, on 07 July 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

The original post had a question about game currency types. After the mech lab pics were released they showed MC and C-Bills as the two types of currency used in the lab. Devs confirmed that "MC"s were MechWarrior Credits, the type of game currency you can purchase. These can be used for more MechBays and more Mechs - other uses unknown at this time (presumably any content like special skins, and such).

C-Bills are earned in game and can also be used to buy Mechs plus deal with repairs, upgrades and such.

No word on if and when MCs can be converted to C-Bills.


Most of these people did not bother reading my initial post before trying to be helpful.......





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