749 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

Ed Steele, on 27 July 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

Yes, the stock Warhammer will be quite lackluster in MWO, unless you are playing against other (3025) stock mechs.

Even 'stock+' (add endo steel, tweak loadout to remove the useless single SRM launcher, upgrade engine) would kinda suck due to low arm mounted weapons, but the hardpoints would allow it to run Twin Gauss + lasers and be at least somewhat effective, but be completely unlike the original mech.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 July 2015 - 12:58 AM, said:

I think there will be much rage if the Warhammer is introduced, as all the people who care more about gameplay than aesthetics and history go and dump the arm PPCs because they are too low mounted, rip off the ST SRM launcher because it makes the ST hitbox too big, and replace the ST MGs with Gauss Rifles.

You know it will happen.

Not that that is a reason to not introduce it mind you, it and the Marauder will print money and PGI know it, so if they can, they will.

And this is why a Stock mode is necessary... Or my personal favourite idea which will never, ever, ever, ever happen and I am perfectly aware of this: Scrap the mechlab completely! Customization kills all attempts at reasonable balance. Or if that's too radical a shift (which it is, I know this) then introduce size-limited hardpoints so that machineguns can't be switched for Gauss rifles and so forth.

[Widowmaker1981]

Steinar Bergstol, on 27 July 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

And this is why a Stock mode is necessary... Or my personal favourite idea which will never, ever, ever, ever happen and I am perfectly aware of this: Scrap the mechlab completely! Customization kills all attempts at reasonable balance. Or if that's too radical a shift (which it is, I know this) then introduce size-limited hardpoints so that machineguns can't be switched for Gauss rifles and so forth.

Size limited hardpoints kill customisation. If you cant replace anything with a bigger weapon, then you dont replace anything and customisation becomes "do i want MLs or MPLs?" "do i want SRM4s or 6s?"

It will never happen. Stock mech mode, sure fine, whatever. I wont play it, because the stock mechs were designed by a brain damaged child, but i have no issues if others want it.

[Johnny Z]

Steinar Bergstol, on 27 July 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

And this is why a Stock mode is necessary... Or my personal favourite idea which will never, ever, ever, ever happen and I am perfectly aware of this: Scrap the mechlab completely! Customization kills all attempts at reasonable balance. Or if that's too radical a shift (which it is, I know this) then introduce size-limited hardpoints so that machineguns can't be switched for Gauss rifles and so forth.

+1 for sized hard points. Its a very popular idea.

[stjobe]

Ed Steele, on 26 July 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

Converging is not instant in this game

Yes it is.

It didn't use to be, but with the introduction of HSR they made it instant.

Ed Steele, on 26 July 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

and pin-point accuracy is the product of skillful aiming and not everyone (myself included) can hit with every shot.

Pin-point accuracy has nothing to do with "hitting every shot", it just means that shots always, without exception, go exactly to the pixel your reticule is pointing at when you pull the trigger, and that the reticule never moves unless you move it.

Combine that with instant convergence, and you have a situation where multiple weapons combine into virtual mega-weapons hitting all at once in a single location instead of hitting all over the target like the armour system is actually designed for.

And that breaks the armour system, making TTK sink like a stone in water.

It really isn't all that difficult to understand.

Ed Steele, on 26 July 2015 - 11:43 PM, said:

Do people really want an RNG combat system like in an MMORPG like WOW? Autoattacks would be extremely lame in an FPS, we would be trading skill for luck.

No, nobody ever asked for that, and you thinking that's the only other option just shows the limits of your imagination.

There is a whole continuum of mechanics and values that sit between perfect accuracy and total randomness - what people are suggesting is that we take a few steps off the end-point we're on right now; nobody's asking to move to the complete other side of the spectrum.

Edited by stjobe, 27 July 2015 - 03:46 AM.

[Lily from animove]

CycKath, on 24 July 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

Tabletop game is bitten the bullet and is properly redoing the Unseen in time for lots of historical titles:
http://bg.battletech...dthree-two-one/












Click the link and see an even more amazing preview image...

well honstely on a quick view, this could even be a hellbringer MKII and with PGI's geometry changes those big arm wepaons would even be short stumps, so true similarities would anyways be gone.

A lot of PGI's artstyle can bring in those mechs without getting into IP roubles.

stjobe, on 27 July 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

There is a whole continuum of mechanics and values that sit between perfect accuracy and total randomness - what people are suggesting is that we take a few steps off the end-point we're on right now; nobody's asking to move to the complete other side of the spectrum.

some people only know blkkc and white and nothing inbetween

Edited by Lily from animove, 27 July 2015 - 03:54 AM.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

I am Twitterpating Russ as we speak. All Twitter account owners and users, unite for the Unseen! And those who aren't because of some "reasons" man up and make the sacrifice for the cause. Using twitter doesn't revoke your man card.

You have my (Long)bow.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lily from animove, on 27 July 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

well honstely on a quick view, this could even be a hellbringer MKII and with PGI's geometry changes those big arm wepaons would even be short stumps, so true similarities would anyways be gone.

A lot of PGI's artstyle can bring in those mechs without getting into IP roubles.

But the Summoner was years after the Warhammer, but your point is still valid. Lets see what CatLabs pulls off, then move forward with the legends of this games history.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

I am Twitterpating Russ as we speak. All Twitter account owners and users, unite for the Unseen! And those who aren't because of some "reasons" man up and make the sacrifice for the cause. Using twitter doesn't revoke your man card.

Gimme a link so I can keep it on topic Bish!

[Odanan]

Alan Davion, on 24 July 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Also, on a related subject, if the remaining unseen did come to MWO, how do you all think the Stinger/Wasp/Valkyrie would be handled? I imagine they'd need some serious hard-point inflation to be useful.

I mean, in all seriousness the Stinger/Wasp/Valkyrie and Locust are probably some of the weakest light mechs in the game.

The Stinger has only a Medium laser and 2 machine guns, while the Wasp only has a Medium laser and an SRM2. As it is the Wasp wouldn't really work very well because the SRM would have to be relocated from the leg to the chest in order to be used... Unless you want to stand still in order to fire it, and really, who would stand still?

The Stinger could probably be a decent mech, same with the Valkyrie, the Wasp is really the only serious outlier.

Wasp 1A
-RA: 3E
-LT: 2M

Stinger 3R
-RA: 2E, 1B
-LA: 3B

[Juodas Varnas]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 July 2015 - 03:55 AM, said:

But the Summoner was years after the Warhammer, but your point is still valid. Lets see what CatLabs pulls off, then move forward with the legends of this games history.

You mean Hellbringer/Loki.

Summoner/Thor was based off the Thunderbolt, as far as i can recall, but i might be imagining things.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 27 July 2015 - 04:06 AM.

[Odanan]

Alan Davion, on 24 July 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Well, with the start of the IIC mechs coming into MWO, and this new push on the good old remaining unseen, you may very well at some point get your wish.

Sure!

Odanan, on 27 July 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

PGI, do Project Phoenix II, please!!!

- Tier 1 Pack, $40 = Light mechs: Wasp and Stinger
- Tier 2 Pack, $80 = previous pack + Medium mechs: Phoenix Hawc and Raijin*
- Tier 3 Pack, $120 = previous packs + Heavy mechs: Marauder and Warhammer
- Tier 4 Pack, $160 = previous packs + Assault mechs: Longbow and Marauder II

- Reinforcements Pack, $55 (needs to get first any of the Tiers) = bonus Heavy mechs: Archer, Crusader, Rifleman

*not a Macross unseen, but it is a cool design and an Unseen anyway.

And, since the gates of hell are open, what about the definitive IIC Packages?
(could be broken in two packs, however, making it an "Origins Trilogy" - since people would have spend a lot of money with the Phoenix II)

- Tier 1 Pack, $40 = Light mechs: UrbanMech IIC** and Locust IIC
- Tier 2 Pack, $80 = previous pack + Medium mechs: Griffin IIC and Shadow Hawk IIC
- Tier 3 Pack, $120 = previous packs + Heavy mechs: Warhammer IIC and Rifleman IIC
- Tier 4 Pack, $160 = previous packs + Assault mechs: Marauder IIC and Phoenix Hawk IIC

**OK, not an Unseen at all, but the opportunity for Clanners to have their own trashcam.

[Joseph Mallan]

Odanan, on 27 July 2015 - 04:00 AM, said:

Wasp 1A
-RA: 3E
-LT: 2M

Stinger 3R
-RA: 2E, 1B
-LA: 3B

Valkrie-QA
LT-2-3 Missile HPs
RA- 1-3 Laser
Valkyrie-QD
Endo
Dubs
3 Missile
4 Laser
Valkyrie-QP (Piranha)
Endo
Dubs
RA 4 Energy With a Large Laser
LT 2 Missile with SRMs loaded.

Juodas Varnas, on 27 July 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

You mean Hellbringer/Loki.

Summoner/Thor was based off the Thunderbolt, as far as i can recall, but i might be imagining things.

Summoner is 70 ton not 65. But yeah... With the mixed bag of weapons and offset cockpit, it is more Tbolt esque.

[Juodas Varnas]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 July 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

Summoner is 70 ton not 65. But yeah... With the mixed bag of weapons and offset cockpit, it is more Tbolt esque.

Well, even some IIC mechs have different tonnages, so i don't think that's a factor.

Though i do recall there being an actual Thunderbolt IIC, so the Summoner thing, might be just my imagination. I don't know

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 27 July 2015 - 04:15 AM.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Natasha Kerensky's WHM-6R Warhammer
with
Colin MacLaren's MAD-3R Marauder to it's left and Lynn Sheridan's GRF-1N Griffin to it's right, all from the Command Lance of the Black Widow Company of Wolf's Dragoons. The mech in the air appears to be a Shadowhawk, by general silhouette and the LRM5 in the RT and autocannon firing over the left torso. Not sure if Steiner or Davion off the top of my head, but think that is the basis of the paint job. Strum Wealh could probably tell more.

and...ninja'd. curse my need for overly detailed answers!!!

Warhammer "Black Widow" hero confirmed!

[Joseph Mallan]

Juodas Varnas, on 27 July 2015 - 04:15 AM, said:

Well, even some IIC mechs have different tonnages, so i don't think that's a factor.

Though i do recall there being an actual Thunderbolt IIC, so the Summoner thing, might be just my imagination. I don't know

Its not a big stretch to pair the two (Summoner/Tbolt) I just used the two so little that I forgot the prime variant for the Summoner.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Must have. Usually happens when one of the anti-PGI reddit crowd starts up. Fit the bill? Otherwise? Dunno.


actually the concept art Mauler's arms are a bit stumpy. And the Orions entire forearm isn't just the weapons barrel like the Warbhammer. take a look at the stub the Awesome got in the last pass.


would probably prefer the upper arms just a tad skinnier, but overall, ain't gonna complain if it comes out close to that.

This looks so much as a MWO's model that I would not be surprised if it actually is.

Rhaythe, on 24 July 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

I really like this Marauder more than the Unseen. The Unseen is too alien and ungainly.

[Odanan]

SpiralFace, on 24 July 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

Screw Yorinaga, I want the REAL Widowmaker. (Not like Natasha's using it in 3050 anyways.)

Why not both Natasha's heroes? Windowmaker (DW) and Black Widow (WH)?

[MeiSooHaityu]

I don't visit the forums all weekend and look at all the stuff I miss.

This is promising news. I'm hoping we finally get some unseen Warhammer and Marauder goodness.

I'm crossing my fingers *crosses fingers*.

[Peiper]

Oh, oh! I know the MWO meta of the Warhammer! Get rid of all the lasers, PPC's and srm rack. Strip all the armor off the arms and buff the torsos and legs. Then replace the machine guns with 2 Gauss rifles and as much ammo as you can put in. Like the K2, but humanoid, and like the jaggermech, but better, cuz you don't have to have arms!

Sized hardpoints are a must....