264 replies to this topic

[Throat Punch]

RedDevil, on 26 July 2015 - 03:08 PM, said:

Can check that argument off the list. Cheers.

See, I'm very sorry; however, like i said, It's the truth, but apparently

[Mister Blastman]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

stuff about stuff

Dude. All you need to do, is like, umm... stand behind a rock, man. It's like... totally rad, dude. Stuff like, it like crashes into them and won't hurt you!

Whoa.

[RedDevil]

Mors Draco, on 26 July 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

See, I'm very sorry; however, like i said, It's the truth, but apparently

If you get hit by any weapon in this game, it's pilot error. That's the logic.

[DONTOR]

How did the LRMs get through the 6 ECMs your team surely had, ACH and SHC are far to prevalent for LRMs to be useful...

[Throat Punch]

RedDevil, on 26 July 2015 - 03:18 PM, said:

If you get hit by any weapon in this game, it's pilot error. That's the logic.

Even more so if it's by a weapon that has to gain and keep a target lock to be effective. So if you die from a rain of missiles and missiles alone you are erroring erring (is that even a word? screw it, it's a word now) a lot.

** my wife gave me an incredulous look and informed me that the word is erring.

Edited by Mors Draco, 26 July 2015 - 03:22 PM.

[RedDevil]

Mors Draco, on 26 July 2015 - 03:21 PM, said:

Even more so if it's by a weapon that has to gain and keep a target lock to be effective. So if you die from a rain of missiles and missiles alone you are erroring erring (is that even a word? screw it, it's a word now) a lot.

** my wife gave me an incredulous look and informed me that the word is erring.

So at least we agree that's the logic then.

[Moment Killer]

ECM is really for stealth. For missiles, there should be a minimum of 12 ams on your team. You'll never see that though, it doesn't have a fun factor. When we had lrmageddon, you would see it. It didn't seem to matter much how many missiles were coming then, because there were more ams. The trouble was ams ammo quantity at that point, at least they have doubled ammo values since then. We need our laser ams though, I would put that on every mech I could.

[Thunder Child]

The problem is, for LRMs to become useful without becoming OP, they need a complete rebuild from the ground up. Right now, they need to get a Lock through multiple invisibility cloaks, they then need to hold said lock until the MISSiles reach the target.

This is assuming the Spotter (I'm only going to argue the IDF point at the moment, even though I prefer to run Close Support when I do occasionally use them) doesn't instantly vaporize due to the Pinpoint Alphas getting flung around these days. The spotter then needs to maintain an unobstructed LoS to the target, and ensure the target doesn't get the benefit of any Invisibility Cloaks that are nearby. Just so you know, if someone is carrying RaDERP, the lock gets broken if they pass behind ANYTHING. Except maybe Lampposts and Trees. But any other obstruction that blocks LoS will instantly break LRM lock, meaning 2 secs to re-target, at which point the Lurms will have probably missed. So, assuming the target decides to sit in the open firing with their Hexa-UACs and completely ignore cover, Invisibility, and that Raven sitting on a hill pointing a Flashlight at him, then he deserves to get hit by the LBX40 flying at him. Actually, an LBX40 would probably be preferable, because at least you can somewhat aim them.

Point is, if someone complains that LRMs are OP, chances are they have bigger problems than the 2nd worst weapon system in the game.

That said, I totally agree that LRMs need a rework. I'm all for the Crosshair chasing option, so that I can fire them over a hill, and then drop them in a 90° angle down on someones head without needing a spotter. And double the Flight Speed too. And increase Damage by Half (but also Increase the Reload time by the same amount).
Because right now, it's either Goose or Lazor. Or ACs if I'm in my Hunchie or Atlas.

[bad arcade kitty]

Monkey Lover, on 26 July 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

I was trying to narc today for a lrm boat i had bap on, ecm on counter

btw those things don't stack

[Xetelian]

Just dropped on alpine. Did less than 300 damage and died almost last in my AS7 Brawler.

LRMs work on 2 maps, Caustic and Alpine. The rest have cover and even Caustic and Alpine have some cover.

[bad arcade kitty]

RedDevil, on 26 July 2015 - 03:14 PM, said:

LRM's are feast if the enemy has no ECM.

and also no radar derp, and don't bother to use a cover and don't shoot uavs

[Yellonet]

A few of you say that I'm just bad and that I did something wrong... well sure, but you can pretty much make that argument every time you die in the game.

But perhaps someone can say how to not get killed by LRM's then. I'm trying to move from cover to cover, but really, even if light of sight is blocked the missiles come in from above so the cover must be pretty high to be effective. Also, avoiding getting targeted is not always possible as I said there are many very fast lights running around, and as of late flying around just targeting the enemy team, then the rain starts, and it's not like you can just kill the little guy instantly as he's fast and you're getting smacked by missiles. Contrary to common belief ECM isn't always around.

[Hit the Deck]

In PUGlandia, the prevalency of ECM could be a problem but usually it's not a big one because they/we are not well coordinated and soon enough there will be a gap in the formation. LRMs 'Mechs are most disadvantaged when the enemies are well covered and they have a lot of AMS.

[bad arcade kitty]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

A few of you say that I'm just bad and that I did something wrong... well sure, but you can pretty much make that argument every time you die in the game.

But perhaps someone can say how to not get killed by LRM's then. I'm trying to move from cover to cover, but really, even if light of sight is blocked the missiles come in from above so the cover must be pretty high to be effective. Also, avoiding getting targeted is not always possible as I said there are many very fast lights running around, and as of late flying around just targeting the enemy team, then the rain starts, and it's not like you can just kill the little guy instantly as he's fast and you're getting smacked by missiles. Contrary to common belief ECM isn't always around.

it seems you play an assault or a slow heavy without a substantial positioning skill... i'd suggest to pick a medium mech or a fast heavy

spend gxp to get radar deprivation pilot skill and then spend 6 mln c-bills for a radar deprivation module and equip it on your mech

elite your mech to get the speed tweak

if enemy have an uav in the air (a spotting flying bot, when it's locked it's shown as a fat red cross on the minimap if not locked it's an easily noticeable speckle in the air) - shoot it asap if nobody else does

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 26 July 2015 - 03:47 PM.

[RedDevil]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

A few of you say that I'm just bad and that I did something wrong... well sure, but you can pretty much make that argument every time you die in the game.

Once you play for a while, you learn where the terrain that blocks LRMs is, and you'll find several mechs usually hugging around those areas.

Also, you pretty much have to run a Radar Deprivation modules on your mech. With this, you don't need to have tall terrain, but just break LoS and move far enough to not get hit by the non tracking missiles.

Like other people have said, avoiding LRMs at the start of the match is all about finding the good camping spots, and keeping your head down. If you start getting hit by LRMs break contact and sit for about 15 seconds until the LRM'er gets bored and targets someone else. Then you can start the peek-a-boo shooting again.

This sort of game play is boring for both LRM'ers and non-LRM'ers, but you have to play this way because of how LRM's currently work.

EDIT: another trick you can do is always make sure someone is in front and behind you. The people on the edges will get targeted by LRMs first. If you see no one moving out of cover, it's because everyone is thinking the same thing and no one wants to be the sacrificial lamb for the LRM boats.

Edited by RedDevil, 26 July 2015 - 03:44 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

LRMs are so ridiculously easy to defeat I can't imagine that there are people who even complain about them now.

With so much ECM, cover, radar dep, cover, lack of tag/narc, cover, not standing out in the open for long periods of time, cover, and cover, there are just too many options out there to make LRMs viable most of the time.

[Dino Might]

FIX LRMs:

Quote

I'd prefer that missiles travel about twice as fast as they do now and try to lead the target like modern missile systems, but that they have a limited turn radius, so that a full deflection shot against a 150 kph light is likely to miss entirely. Much like in flight simulators, when you fire a missile at an enemy aircraft heading perpendicular to you at relatively close range, the missile can't turn hard enough to get the appropriate lead and will miss the target. From farther away, the missile has more room to turn and gain an appropriate lead on the target, so it has a much better chance to hit from a simple fire control geometry point of view.

This would allow us to remove the min range damage falloff. Missiles deal full damage at any range more than about 20 meters (this is only to prevent face hugging LRM 60 splat attacks). For IS, to incorporate the min range penalties, we could reduce or eliminate their turning capability within the first 50, or 100, or 200m.

As for locking onto the target, the mech should have to paint the target mech (reticle on the actual hitboxes of the other mech) for a duration of time to achieve lock, and then the lock remains similar to how it is now, where you only have to be close. Think of it almost like an invisible TAG laser you need to use to designate the target for your on-board fire control systems. Your designation of the target, once lock is achieved, can become a bit more loose, because your targetting computer has coordinated with your other sensors to focus on that particular mech and read it's position based on updates from all of your sensors. To do indirect fire, you need someone to use TAG or NARC to get that lock, which would require only being close (similar to when you already have a lock).

Consider that a laser designator should be almost weightless and tiny, but TAG requires 1 slot and 1 ton because it's the communications uplink to the friendly fire control systems that requires sufficient equipment - this system has to have anti-jamming, encryption, multiple redundancies, shockproof, etc. so that's where it gets more expensive in terms of size and weight. So the mech firing its own missiles has it's own invisible laser designator used to acquire LOS targets, and it costs nothing and weighs nothing. But to do this for another mech, you need TAG or NARC, each of which have the communications capabilities to do so at the appropriate cost in space and weight.

Also, allow an area saturation mode for LRMs. Flip a switch, and now you get a cursor that is hooked to the ground that shows a circle of where you LRMs will impact in a wider pattern. So, you can dumbfire your tight clusters with regular cursor, or dumbfire looser clusters with the ground cursor. Moving your cursor in this second mode moves the circle along the ground.

Edited by Dino Might, 26 July 2015 - 03:46 PM.

[Moment Killer]

Yellonet, on 26 July 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

A few of you say that I'm just bad and that I did something wrong... well sure, but you can pretty much make that argument every time you die in the game.

But perhaps someone can say how to not get killed by LRM's then. I'm trying to move from cover to cover, but really, even if light of sight is blocked the missiles come in from above so the cover must be pretty high to be effective. Also, avoiding getting targeted is not always possible as I said there are many very fast lights running around, and as of late flying around just targeting the enemy team, then the rain starts, and it's not like you can just kill the little guy instantly as he's fast and you're getting smacked by missiles. Contrary to common belief ECM isn't always around.

I would love to give advice, there are a lot of things I can say without watching a video of your play. If you do have some videos though, we could examine it better.

Like I said about ams, it's not a one man operation. Multiple mechs have to be in on it. I notice a huge difference with just 2 ams opposed to 1 in my jester, then I throw on the ams quirks, and it's ridiculous.

Cover isn't always just buildings, it's also putting some dps on the boats. Most lrm boats hang back, and don't like to get shot at, when you put pressure on them, they usually fold their position and stop firing for a bit.

Pay attention to UAV's and NARC. I don't know how to say it better than this. I have watched many teams just ignore UAV's, and get torn to pieces. Don't let UAV's be up for any period of time.

Use Radar Deprevation. If you don't own one, this should be your new goal. As soon as you find cover, their extended target lock becomes obsolete. Remember that they can still have lock on you for 3 seconds after you find cover, unless you have Radar Deprevation.

[RedDevil]

Ah yes, Moment Killer made a very good point that I forgot. Always call out enemy UAV's and make them a very high priority to shoot down!

[bad arcade kitty]

Moment Killer, on 26 July 2015 - 03:45 PM, said:

Use Radar Deprevation. If you don't own one, this should be your new goal. As soon as you find cover, their extended target lock becomes obsolete. Remember that they can still have lock on you for 3 seconds after you find cover, unless you have Radar Deprevation.

3.5 sec if they have target decay and you don't have radar derp
2 sec if you both have nothing
1.5 sec if you both have decay and derp correspondingly
0 sec if you have derp and they don't have decay

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 26 July 2015 - 03:53 PM.