54 replies to this topic

[Xmith]

MWO's version of 3PV is not very useful at all compared to MW4. MWO 3PV sits too low and close behind the mech to be any use. There is no enough adjustment to viewing angle. MW4's version can adjust raise cam angle enough to be able to see more over mountain and hill tops.

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Edited by Xmith, 27 July 2015 - 02:35 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

Flash Frame, on 27 July 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

Actually, Mech Assault didn't ruin it... in fact, Mech Assault sold so much, Microsoft decided to drop working on MW5 back in the early 2000's to focus on the Mech Assault brand.

The problem came when they did that, and angered the diehard's who decided to say screw it, and refused to buy MA2 and the DS game. Which caused Microsoft to feel the brand was unprofitable and dropped development of Mechwarrior and Mechassault games. Which caused the 10 year dark age.

You forget that sales for any video games based on Battletech were never particularly good for ANY iteration compared to other well-known brands, and games moved steadily away from tabletop roots as we went along.

The market for the high-complexity type Mechwarrior games like ME2 and MWO has dwindled to nothing since MW2s release. Perhaps one of the better selling and critically successful entry in the series, MW4, strays so far that many purests don't really consider it the same series. And yet, among casual players it was the most accessible and fun to play.

The reality is, the community killed the Mechwarrior series... by being divisive between purists and casuals. You can't support a proper MW game on purists alone. Mechassault was an attempt to pull in the casuals by appealing to gameplay sensibilities casuals can work with. And it worked, temporarily... until vastly better series came along under brands that were more recognizable.

MW has been steadily dwindling for a long long time.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

ScarecrowES, on 27 July 2015 - 01:51 PM, said:

You forget that sales for any video games based on Battletech were never particularly good for ANY iteration compared to other well-known brands, and games moved steadily away from tabletop roots as we went along.

The market for the high-complexity type Mechwarrior games like ME2 and MWO has dwindled to nothing since MW2s release. Perhaps one of the better selling and critically successful entry in the series, MW4, strays so far that many purests don't really consider it the same series. And yet, among casual players it was the most accessible and fun to play.

The reality is, the community killed the Mechwarrior series... by being divisive between purists and casuals. You can't support a proper MW game on purists alone. Mechassault was an attempt to pull in the casuals by appealing to gameplay sensibilities casuals can work with. And it worked, temporarily... until vastly better series came along under brands that were more recognizable.

MW has been steadily dwindling for a long long time.

MW5 would have sold. Mechwarrior has ALWAYS been considered "a success" on the PC market.

MW3, despite it's troubled dev history, sold just fine, as did MW4 and subsequent expansions.

While I'll agree the series slowly got away from it's roots [a decision that started with MW2, if you look at it's departure from mechanics laid out in the DOS Mechwarrior 1]. That doesn't mean it exactly got casualized. Sure MW4's a bit easier compared to 3, but at the same time, MW4 fixes a lot of fundamental issues, especially in multiplayer, that plagued MW3.

If you look, historically, at the sales of the Mechwarrior franchise as a whole however, you'll find the games have sold perfectly fine. And hell, look at the overwhelming support MWO has garnered. You can call us "whales" all you want, but those of us who have been around since Founders, or consistantly buy the top tier mechpacks or the like, are the same one's that would have bought any normal itteration of Mechwarrior on release without a second's hesitation. We are the same people who would have picked up Mechwarrior 3015 [the failed trailer]. We are diehards, and we alone raised a good chunk of money with founders sales alone for MWO... Imagine if they'd sold just a boxed, $60 product... how many of us would still be here, still be buying mechpacks and expansions.

Mechwarrior isn't "unprofitable" It's just not CoD, appeal to the masses popular. Which is all any big studio wants anymore.

Hell if this game looked like Mechwarrior 3 graphics wise, but played like MWO does, I'd STILL be here, shelling out money, and I think there's plenty of others who would say the same.

[Mawai]

Coolant, on 27 July 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

It's not a crutch if everyone uses it...like the vast majority did in MW4:Mercs - you know, that previous title in the franchise. Not MW1, 2 or 3, or even Vengeance/Black Knight...Mercs, the most recent title. Hosted servers in Mercs had the option to force first person and yet less than 10% did. I'm being very generous with the 10% cause most of the time there were zero that did. It was simple, all one had to do is check the Force First Person box in the server options...hardly anyone did. Know why? Because no one would want to join their server cause they wanted to be able to play in 3rd person.

That is an interesting observation considering that the MWO community was almost uniformly against 3rd person view before it was introduced. The MWO community includes a lot of people who played MW4 both single player and online.

Did 3rd person provide some significant game play advantage in MW4 that made it more attractive to the multiplayer crowd? Or was it easier to hack 3rd person view?

Just considering the opinions expressed here against third person view, I am curious why so many would have wanted it in MW4. I know when I played MW4 (mostly PVE), I played in first person view.

[Joseph Mallan]

Coolant, on 27 July 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

It's not a crutch if everyone uses it...like the vast majority did in MW4:Mercs - you know, that previous title in the franchise. Not MW1, 2 or 3, or even Vengeance/Black Knight...Mercs, the most recent title. Hosted servers in Mercs had the option to force first person and yet less than 10% did. I'm being very generous with the 10% cause most of the time there were zero that did. It was simple, all one had to do is check the Force First Person box in the server options...hardly anyone did. Know why? Because no one would want to join their server cause they wanted to be able to play in 3rd person.

Yes it is! A crutch is a crutch no matter how many people use it! The only difference is its a popular crutch!

[Mawai]

Xmith, on 27 July 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

MWO's version of 3PV is not very useful at all compared to MW4. MWO 3PV sits too low and close behind the mech to be any use. There is no enough adjustment to viewing angle. MW4's version can adjust raise cam angle enough to be able to see more over mountain and hill tops.

http://

MW4 was primarily a single player PVE game where 3rd person view did not matter except to please the player if they were interested.

When mapped to multiplayer in MW4 the 3rd person view seems to provide some significant advantages ... but MW4 wasn't play tested and balanced for multiplayer and if everyone is using the same interface it doesn't matter.

However, if PGI had created a 3PV that was significantly better than the first person view in terms of advantages ... everyone would be forced to use it to remain competitive. Instead PGI created a 3PV that lets you see your mech and a bit of the surrounding area but loses other features. It works as a learning tool, provides no significant in game advantage ... I'd say it is fine as it is

[GeistHrafn]

Mawai, on 28 July 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

That is an interesting observation considering that the MWO community was almost uniformly against 3rd person view before it was introduced. The MWO community includes a lot of people who played MW4 both single player and online.

Did 3rd person provide some significant game play advantage in MW4 that made it more attractive to the multiplayer crowd? Or was it easier to hack 3rd person view?

Just considering the opinions expressed here against third person view, I am curious why so many would have wanted it in MW4. I know when I played MW4 (mostly PVE), I played in first person view.

I don't really have an answer for that. I played MW4 almost exclusively in 3rd person view. (PVE mind you).
I can't STAND 3pv in MWO, never used it, not even my first day out. Doesn't seem right to have it in an online 'mech shooter, IMO.

[Rushin Roulette]

Xetelian, on 27 July 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

3PV should be lostech.

Every time I see a champion mech in 3rd person view I try to give them tips.

Helpfull tips are always good. and for all those that refuse to listen and then complain anyways... here is another tip

[Joseph Mallan]

Rushin Roulette, on 28 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Helpfull tips are always good. and for all those that refuse to listen and then complain anyways... here is another tip

Oh how I know that feeling!

[Dirgez]

Coolant, on 27 July 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

It's not a crutch if everyone uses it...like the vast majority did in MW4:Mercs - you know, that previous title in the franchise. Not MW1, 2 or 3, or even Vengeance/Black Knight...Mercs, the most recent title. Hosted servers in Mercs had the option to force first person and yet less than 10% did. I'm being very generous with the 10% cause most of the time there were zero that did. It was simple, all one had to do is check the Force First Person box in the server options...hardly anyone did. Know why? Because no one would want to join their server cause they wanted to be able to play in 3rd person.

You must of not played in NBT4. In this league first person view was the only way to play. If you wanted to be the best you would need to master this view.

And Mechwarrior 4 had 2 versions, Mechwarrior 4 Vengeance and it's expansion Black Knight (and 2 mech packs), then later Mechwarrior 4 Mercenaries. Which MW4Mercs was just a streamlined version of MW4 Vengeance + Black Knight + official mech packs with a new single player campaign.

[totgeboren]

I have used it on for example Frozen City, when I was hiding behind a building and wanted to see how many mechs were around the corner. Just pop out the UAV for a second and have a look, return it and (in that case) flee! (There were 4 mechs around the corner!)

Felt like cheating, but everyone has it available so I figured why not?

[bad arcade kitty]

i wish we could fly that drone around your mech in the training grounds

[LordBraxton]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 July 2015 - 03:31 AM, said:

Funny thing. The Forum voted against 3PV resoundingly. We did it twice! And we were told that the silent MAJORITY wanted 3PV.

So people who don't say anything asked for something that was voted against by people who do actually talk???

^^^this sums up PGI's business model. 'We heard u guys liek e-sportz?!'

Edited by LordBraxton, 28 July 2015 - 10:08 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Coolant, on 27 July 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

It's not a crutch if everyone uses it...like the vast majority did in MW4:Mercs - you know, that previous title in the franchise. Not MW1, 2 or 3, or even Vengeance/Black Knight...Mercs, the most recent title. Hosted servers in Mercs had the option to force first person and yet less than 10% did. I'm being very generous with the 10% cause most of the time there were zero that did. It was simple, all one had to do is check the Force First Person box in the server options...hardly anyone did. Know why? Because no one would want to join their server cause they wanted to be able to play in 3rd person.

3rd PoV was used massively in MW2, MW3 and MW4 because of the ADVANTAGES it gave over 1st PoV, pure and simple. You could see over and around objects that totally blocked your view AND obtain targets, target information and locks, again, all on things you did NOT actually have any view of from your Mech. This is why poptarting was so common and hated in those games, a hatred that carries over to MWO, and due totally to the way 3rd PoV worked in all the previous MW titles. It doesn't matter that everyone could do it, it was still wrong and should never have existed as it did.

PGI did it right, you can see your legs and torso from behind, your weapons don't fire where you are looking, you can't move your arms seperate from the torso, and you have no map. It was designed to help NEW PLAYERS learn how to orient themselves in a Mech, where your torso facing and leg facing aren't tied together, which is why it's defaulted to ON for all new players. We, the forums users, which makes up a MASSIVE 10% of the playerbase, at best, were vehemently against any 3rd PoV being in MWO, and we'd been promised by PGI that it would never be included in MWO. Reality is that IGP and the MASSES who play the game but don't come to the forums made clear that 3rd PoV was wanted, so it was added, and made only useful for learning facing for torso/legs by new players and that's ALL it was useful for.

MW2 was the BEST selling of all the MW titles to date, and that was only $70 million for ALL of the MW2 titles over a 5 year period, MW2, MW2 95, MW2:GBL, MW2:Mercs, MW2 Titanium pack. That sales figure include ALL copies of anything named MW2 for the PC, which includes all the copies of the game packaged with joysticks and/or 3dFx Voodoo video cards, which was actually the largest amount of the game 'sold', the combo packages bought for a joystick and/or video card, NOT the game that was packaged with them. No MW2 based online league ever topped 10k unique players, while Quake, which was released in 1996, was topping well over 10k players in various online leagues quite easily.

MW3 was actually a financial failure, it sold horribly, so badly in fact that MS, who owned the IP, moved it from 1 company to another during development AND put out MW4 less than a year after MW3 was initially released, just months after the MW3:Pirate's Moon addon was released, that's how badly MW3 did in sales.

MW4 did better than MW3 in sales, never topped the MW2 sales numbers, but WAS more profitable for MS, simply because they had so little money in the actual product's creation and release. MW2 took 5 years of development before Activision released it, MW4 was 1 year. Activision spent a lot of money on PR, MS didn't, so they made more off MW4 than Activision made off MW2, but actually sold less copies.

ALL of the MW titles, including the original, were critical successes and won awards, but not a single one of the MW titles was actually a successful popular hit, Mech Assault came close, but that was only because it was a flagship XBox Live title that MS really pushed the PR for. It still wasn't popular however. No Mecha based title ever has been popular, PC or console gaming, outside of the Orient market, and that market prefers Anime based Mecha titles, of which BTech/MW is not and it never did well in that market at all.

And for anyone who thinks 3rd PoV right now actually gives them any advantages in MWO, PLEASE, keep using it, as long as you are NOT on my team! I love knowing where the fools are, so does everyone else, so you keep on using that 3rd PoV! Just remember, when everyone seems to know where you are, it's not hacks kiddo, it's your wonderfully useful 3rd PoV DRONE showing up so clearly and easily clear across every single map in the game!

[VinJade]

only time I ever used 3rd person if I ever get stuck like I do a lot in that dam bog many seem to bloody love.

if it wasn't for 3rd person view I would be nothing more than a turret.

also I have to wonder if they was so against then why the hell was it set as default view?