44 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

Dear devs at PGI – how can I make my AMD system run your game better? I ask this in earnest – I am really getting frustrated at the low frame-rates compared to people running INTEL and NVidia systems that have lower performance specs then my system. I humbly ask if the NVidia guys who helped you with the early development of the game put in some throttle-down code for AMD systems that you don’t know about?

Now, I know that performance can be related to a lot of different things and what you have installed on your system can impact performance as much (or even more so) than your hardware so I undertook an experiment… I built a MECHWARRIOR ONLY AMD system – just operating system and MWO and nothing else (not even virus protection), disabling all services except those required to play MWO. The system scores a 7.9 / 7.9 on the semi-useless Microsoft performance score and takes about 4 seconds from POST to log-in (meaning its fast and lean). Here is the system:

OS:Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, service pack 1

Mainboard: Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UDE rev 1.1

BIOS: Award Modular BIOS F10e – 9/9/2014

Processor: AMD FX™ 9590 Eight-Core Processor ~4.9 Ghz

Memory: 32768MB RAM DDR3-1600 Mhz CL10

Available OS Memory: 32750MB RAM

DirectX Version: DirectX 11

PowerSupply: AXi Series AX1500i Modular Digital Power Supply

Cooling CPU: Raystorm 750 AX360 Water cooling with 2 AX360 Radiators

Cooling GPU: Razor R9 290x/290 Waterblocks

Cooling RAM: XSPC 4slot Memory Waterblocks

Video Card #1

Card name: AMD Radeon R9 200 Series (R9 290)

Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

Chip type: AMD Radeon Graphics Processor (0x67B1)

DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)

Display Memory: 3779 MB

Dedicated Memory: 4035 MB

Shared Memory: 3840 MB

Current Mode: 2560 x 1440 (32 bit) (60Hz)

Driver Version: 15.200.1046.0

DDI Version: 11

Video Card #2

Card name: AMD Radeon R9 200 Series (R9 290)

Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

Chip type: AMD Radeon Graphics Processor (0x67B1)

DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)

Display Memory: 3779 MB

Dedicated Memory: 4035 MB

Shared Memory: 3840 MB

Current Mode: 2560 x 1440 (32 bit) (60Hz)

Driver Version: 15.200.1046.0

DDI Version: 11

Disk Drives

Drive: C:

Free Space: 362.7 GB

Total Space: 457.9 GB

File System: NTFS

Model: INTEL SSDSC2BW480A4 ATA Device

Now, this is a great system – I think I am going to save it for just playing games on and maybe do some real benchmarks. But, what is the performance of this system with MWO being the only software installed? Well since I didn’t want to affect the system’s performance by installing benchmarking software I have to rely on in-game feedback rather than an actual benchmarking report…

ALL IN-GAME GRAPHICS SETTINGS WERE SET TO LOW

Average playing FPS: 45 (this was the average of what I usually would see in-game while playing – as shown by pressing F9)

FPS ranges: 18 – 210 (This is, excluding 0 FPS during loading screens, the variation on my FPS)

My question is simple: What can I do to get my FPS to, at least, stay at the 60 Hz range on MEDIUM to HIGH settings? (My ping during game-play is a very stable 85 ms) I know there are lots of tricks to slightly increase performance -- I have done them on my main system -- which add perhaps 5 more FPS.

Edited by nehebkau, 29 July 2015 - 12:33 PM.

[nehebkau]

can I assume that no one from PGI reads these forums? Do I need to tweet the link to Russ?

[Modo44]

You brought this on yourself. MWO is most likely CPU-bound on your config (almost all configs, really), and this is a known engine/design limitation that is not going away any time soon. Your CPU has weak cores, which has been AMD's issue for years. More processing threads matter little when any one thread is stalled -- this has been true in gaming since the first dual core CPUs. There are forum topics about optimizing AMD CPU performance for MWO, I suggest you google that.

[cx5]

Hi,

I'm running full AMD rig, nothing as fancy as yours, but am pretty happy.

You have too much ram that does nothing, further more they are CL10, which is slower than CL9. Since you've got the cash, should have just gotten CL8 with a total of 8GB, namely 4GB two pieces to enjoy double bitrate bandwidth thing.

As said by Modo44, this game is Mhz crazy not core crazy, just like Starcraft-II review by tomshardware, 4cores beat 6cores. So may be you could switch off between 2 to 4 cores then up voltage and overclock even more. Nearly all non AMD optimzed games are like that??? not sure though.

Also Windows 8.1 gives me the best feel versus 8 and 7.

Adding software Process Lasso seems to help, psychologically???

People says also adding software throttlestop, see/search GOOSE threads, he is a real guru. I haven't done this cause I'm getting happy results on all very high settings with MSAA.

My rigs and some screenshots showing settings, memory usage, etc.

It's now summer in Hong Kong, I run MWO underclocked 800Mhz GPU and is still happy smooth. With very few occasional drops. Oh yeah, sometimes fps drops to 10 constant, when google chrome is opened. Hence need to enable CPU monitoring, cause sometimes it goes 100% load for no reason, then solve it and FPS jumps up nice again. Another known fact bug.

http://mwomercs.com/...me-rate-solved/

some other tips http://mwomercs.com/...us-frame-which/

crossfire unorthodox solution http://mwomercs.com/...s-have-working/

One of GOOSE's brilliant user.cfg combinations http://mwomercs.com/...w-end-machines/

Errrr no, I didn't do all of above, just basic system with all the junks and MWO still runs fine.



New River City map is killing me though, my average 45fps like yours drops to 25, then I've default clock the GPU 947Mhz, got to engage process lasso, really helps this map, reduce MSAA to non, set a few very high down to medium, but heck I've got used to the 25 in river city I keep all settings in very high and MSAA.

Edited by cx5, 30 July 2015 - 10:54 PM.

[_____]

This game's performance is just crap in general if you turn up the settings to Very High, especially particles and environment. I've an Intel i5-4670k @ 4.2 GHz and still get **** framerates on Frozen City with particles on medium or above.

[cx5]

BlackhawkSC, on 30 July 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

This game's performance is just crap in general if you turn up the settings to Very High, especially particles and environment. I've an Intel i5-4670k @ 4.2 GHz and still get **** framerates on Frozen City with particles on medium or above.

Thanks for reminder, Frozen City STORM/blizzard weather condition kill me fps too.....

Edited by cx5, 30 July 2015 - 11:08 PM.

[Dragoon20005]

I noticed he is using CF 290s

also that mobo is the major cause of concern

the VRMs will overheat at load and only got fixed in the Rev 4.0

also do not use beta BIOS

[nehebkau]

Excellent suggestions --
Dragoon, Ya the ram problem is why I switched Main boards on my main rig and which is why the ram is liquid cooled on that board.

I do have 16 Gig of CL8 ram -- Ill toss that in. I have the cooling capacity to push the CPU hard so I think Ill try disabling some cores and really boosting the CPU speed.

Great suggestions -- Ill make some changes and get back to you.

[Wolf486]

Unpark your cores and set Windows 7 to performance. Turn shadows to low any AA or PP to 0.

[michaelius]

Swapping ram won't achieve anything - 1600 cl10 vs 1600 c8 is maybe 1-2% change in applications vunerable to slow memory system (which I don't know if MWO qualifies)

I'm sorry to say so but You spent all that cash on PC and put performance cripling AMD CPU into it ? And then doubled the hurt with crossfire setup which increases cpu overhead ?

The only thing you can do is swapping cpu for overclocked i5 or i7 4790k (or Skywell in few weeks)

Consider this valuable lesson why single threaded performance is still extremly important for games.

[o0Marduk0o]

Don't ask PGI, ask AMD.

[Vlad Striker]

Just switch to DirectX 9.

[Durant Carlyle]

AMD has been concentrating on the GPU portion of their CPUs (and power savings) for years now, just like Intel. They have barely made any strides at all in making their CPU cores more powerful, and any game that requires strong CPU cores (like MWO) suffers because of that.

Having eight cores doesn't make up for the fact that each core is a 90-pound weakling when it comes to running games.

Your only recourse (apart from selling your stuff and buying Intel) is to overclock that mofo until it begs for mercy (CPU and GPUs). It won't fully make up for weak cores, but it'll help a bit.

-----

I've got an Intel i5-4690K @ 3.9GHz, 16GB of Corsair Vengeance LP 1600 C9 RAM, a Zotac GTX980 AMP! Omega @ stock factory overclock, a Crucial MX100 512GB SSD, and an Acer 1080p 144 Hz G-Sync monitor. My performance is far more consistent than yours, most of the time (non-combat) staying pegged at 144 FPS, dipping into the 60s or so in the worst combat (or occasionally just facing a certain direction on certain maps). And that's at maxed in-game settings in DX11 mode.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 31 July 2015 - 08:52 PM.

[xWiredx]

With a 4.9GhZ Piledriver CPU and an R9 290, you should be getting better frame rates than that. Dig through the hardware subforum for SmokeyJedi and Bill Lumbar's posts about their systems, settings, and performance numbers.

On to the basics of probably WHY here... MWO is CPU-hungry, and AMD CPUs have terrible IPC compared to their Intel counterparts. All Intel CPUs from Sandy Bridge to Skylake simply blow away Piledriver chips. To make up the difference, you're looking at bumping your clocks up into the 5.2-5.4GhZ range just to be about even with the stock 4790K.

Have you thought about not running 32GB of RAM? There are zero reasons to have 32GB of RAM on a consumer machine. If you're running a VM with a sizable Oracle database and a Java client front-end I guess maybe 16GB *might* be necessary, but 32GB? No way man. That's just more stress on the memory controller and opening yourself up for the possibility that it could cause some instability (your motherboard's max RAM support is 32GB, and since it's a Gigabyte board I highly doubt they thoroughly tested that before marketing it).

Are you using crossfire with MWO? Or is crossfire disabled for MWO?

Do you have the latest BIOS installed for that motherboard? Latest Catalyst drivers for your GPUs? Latest drivers for the rest of your hardware?

[Erasus Magnus]

o0Marduk0o, on 31 July 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Don't ask PGI, ask AMD.

yeah, thats why pretty much every game under the sun works just fine with an amd processor, EXCEPT MWO. It is a badly coded game. period. Nothing to do with AMD.

Durant Carlyle, on 31 July 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

AMD has been concentrating on the GPU portion of their CPUs (and power savings) for years now, just like Intel. They have barely made any strides at all in making their CPU cores more powerful, and any game that requires strong CPU cores (like MWO) suffers because of that.

Hopes are that things like this will be a thing of the past soon with multhreaded performance finally taken into the equation due to api improvements (D3D12&Vulkan).
Its a travesty that we were boasting 4,6 or even 8 cores in our rigs and nothing would properly make use of that.

Someone care to explain to me why MWO is so abnormally CPU hungry? It doesnt even have AIs to compute, does it? This should be all GPU and barely CPU. It boggles my mind why this is pretty much the ONLY GAME i have played that pulls this ****.

My PC is an ancient old Thuban 1055T@3.5ghz, 8 gigs of 1666mhz ddr3 CL8 and a Gigabyte78702GB that i overclocked the snot out of. Every recent game, from crysis 3 to tomb raider to witcher 3 to gta5 runs decently. only in mwo i have to resort back to dx9 and all graphic settings off/low just to maintain a somewhat stable 45 fps. thats just bonkers.

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 01 August 2015 - 02:02 AM.

[SIN Deacon]

Buddies computer that I built for him has a 8120 overclocked to 4.4ghz, 16gb's of 1866mhz kingston, and a gtx 960 with the stock clock. I think he's running it on high and he is consistently over 40FPS. He had a 7870 prior playing at 1080p with little issues.

Make sure your video card is also running at it's maximum speed when in-game. Use software that will monitor the GPU/Memory frequency and check back after a minute or so of playing. Try running the game without crossfire, or by changing the crossfile profiles. I make it a habit to play with the settings of any game for about 15-20 minutes to get the most out of SLI/Crossfire. Had 2 6970's and they were fussy with how they wanted to render in crossfire from game to game. My 2 970's have done a better job but I still like to go in and set settings manually, to make sure they are running full out.

Edited by SIN Deacon, 01 August 2015 - 03:27 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

Erasus Magnus, on 01 August 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

My PC is an ancient old Thuban 1055T@3.5ghz, 8 gigs of 1666mhz ddr3 CL8 and a Gigabyte78702GB that i overclocked the snot out of. Every recent game, from crysis 3 to tomb raider to witcher 3 to gta5 runs decently. only in mwo i have to resort back to dx9 and all graphic settings off/low just to maintain a somewhat stable 45 fps. thats just bonkers.

What are decent settings for you?

[Mark Brandhauber]

I run a 9590 @4.7 with 16 gb ram and a single gtx 970, my fps range from 60 to 100 at 1920 by 1080 at a mix of high and medium settings. This I have achieved with a few tweaks provided by kind members of the MechWarrior community.
In my opinion; the fact PGI do not have a single AMD test rig in their studio is the real factor in their efforts to optimise for AMD chips.

Edited by Mark Brandhauber, 01 August 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[Modo44]

Erasus Magnus, on 01 August 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

yeah, thats why pretty much every game under the sun works just fine with an amd processor, EXCEPT games based on CryEngine and other CPU-intensive engines.

FTFY

[cx5]

Erasus Magnus, on 01 August 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

Someone care to explain to me why MWO is so abnormally CPU hungry? It doesnt even have AIs to compute, does it? This should be all GPU and barely CPU.

I'm not technical enough to explain, but knows of a old test done by www.tomshardware.com on Starcraft-II and some other games that higher Mhz is better instead of more cores. The controlled test was for every 0.1Ghz increase 1fps increase, just saying. Then for every core increase no fps change .

And regarding the GPU, it's a more powerful workhorse than CPU, everyone knows yes, but unfortunately GPU will only work then TOLD by the CPU. Simply put.........

nehebkau, on 31 July 2015 - 05:31 AM, said:

Excellent suggestions --
I have the cooling capacity to push the CPU hard so I think Ill try disabling some cores and really boosting the CPU speed.

You just reminded me to recommend to say these: -
1) Assume you will use 4 cores for MWO, then select them in ZIG ZAG order so that heat build up is spread evenly across the die. For sure it is not going to be Core 1 to 4 together. Probably something like 1,4,5,8, I'm just guessing.
2) I changed my advice from above, instead of shutting down some cores, use Process Lasso to dedicate around 4 cores PURELY 100% MWO, then may be 2 cores for OS (I don't know how to achieve this), finally 2 cores for services??? apps??? etc. (meaning everything you can see in the list under task manager).
3) Underclock the core not for MWO. Overclock only MWO cores. Is this even possible?
4) jump to Windows 8.1 immediately, you've got to try it before hate it. Win8.1 is so smart the first few boot up is slow but after each subsequent successful boot up and shutdown, it will start to skip processed and run on necessity. My Windows boot up circle rotates as little as 1.5 rounds (sometimes), i.e. from seeing the windows logo appear to login screen is around 4 seconds only. Not counting POST.

But careful, once a unproper startup or shutdown occurs, it will jump back to all standard procedures and run a lot more self tests, sometimes after logging in, it takes a whole two minutes for all the drivers and taskbar apps to completely load up, i.e. the mouse does not response for that lond time. Then it takes nearly as many as 10 rotation of actual usage (hours) shutdown boot up shutdown boot up, which is a few days later then suddenly it boots so damm fast we hardly could move our hard from the mouse to pick up the cup of water.

Remember to run monitoring software on top on MWO, I use MSI Afterburner build by Rivertuner. We could see memory leaks, CPU suck out of life by unknowns and fps drops etc, then immediately close and restart MWO client or close google chrome.

The funniest is CPU loads 100% without google chrome running, then simply ALT_TAB to desktop, open Window's default Task Manager, pretend to look it through, filter by CPU LOAD but finds nothing take 90%, STRANGE, nevermind, just scroll up and down, and you'll suddenly feel the mouse response better and faster, the words updates quicker etc. Finally ALT_TAB jump back to MWO and fps increase from 15 to 45.

Don't ask me why, it has happened too many times......

AMD's fault, I doubt so. M$ fault??? more likely. MWO fault? I think less than M$ for sure.

Does it occur to other games? YES!!! in my case it's COD Advance Warfare.