42 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

I can't seem to build a satisfying one because there are already:

• Quad UAC/5 build which reaches farther, shoots faster, suppresses enemies better, operates cooler, and doesn't have ghost heat.
  
• Dual Gauss + (ER)LLs build which has good weapon synergy and range.

So what's the purpose of dual AC/20 KGC? Do you have one which you prefer to the above mentioned builds?

[Nightmare1]

I run one with twin AC/20s and twin ERLLs to great effect. I love it!

It's not for competitive play though since it uses an Excel. It's just for laughs.

[Bows3r]

DPS & PPFLD in a Brawl. A Dual AC/20 King Crab will beat any other King Crab in a brawl. Barring a dead-sided Atlas-Crab, which has even less range then a Dual 20 King Crab.

[Hit the Deck]

Bows3r, on 31 July 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

DPS & PPFLD in a Brawl. A Dual AC/20 King Crab will beat any other King Crab in a brawl. Barring a dead-sided Atlas-Crab, which has even less range then a Dual 20 King Crab.

I thought so but KGC is big and slow so you probably spend most of your time in a match shooting those LLs or LRMs at the enemies and not the AC/20. Moreover, AC/20 has ghost heat and it creates 23.52 points of heat when two of them are fired together. Granted, this one could beat another KGC at a brawl but it doesn't have good stamina because of the heat.

Also, what's your dual AC/20 build?

Edited by Hit the Deck, 31 July 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[zudukai]

eh? why not both?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...43c6aa524274221

[Nightshade24]

Quad UAC 5 only does 20 damage per 'alpha', 40 when double firing, but they spread it between 2 different shots and with a jam.

So technically normally it'll have 50% of the firepower of the duel AC 20 crab or it may match it but is less accurate and can jam which will result in less fire-power overal. Also 4 tons heavier for 2 UAC 5's compared to an AC 20, meaning 8 tons in total is stripped from the king crab to have UAC 5's instead of AC 20's. Meaning a king crab can probably do a large laser or two while the UAC 5 will struggle to have 1 assuming mostly everything else is equal (ie engine)

duel gauss? charge time, less damage, explodes if destroyed, easy to destroy when cored area, not XL friendly, and is heavier then the AC 20.


That and also the 000 got AC 20 quirks, thus it'll also have a bigger edge over the other weapons.

It's quite good in a brawl but obviously not a sinper

[Bows3r]

Hit the Deck, on 31 July 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

I thought so but KGC is big and slow so you probably spend most of your time in a match shooting those LLs or LRMs at the enemies and not the AC/20. Moreover, AC/20 has ghost heat and it creates 23.52 points of heat when two of them are fired together. Granted, this one could beat another KGC at a brawl but it doesn't have good stamina because of the heat.

Also, what's your dual AC/20 build?

If you're shooting large lasers and LRM's at enemies instead of your arm mounted ballistics, then you're doing something horribly wrong, with any King Crab build. Also, if you fire your AC/20's with a .5 second delay, you don't get Ghost Heat.

Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e758829ee2db130

[Chocowolf Sradac]

the duel ac20 crab is deadly at close range but to be fair any mech able to carry duel ac20 is so long as they are accurate. With the game the way it goes yes the guass or the ac5 seems to be a much more viable option

For me any mech carrying duel ac20's is really situational when that can be effective and not be a primary target to an enemy team to get focused down the moment they target you. if you can get the jump on them and get in close then it's quite deadly

[Felio]

Why not add dual PPC and turn on arm lock? Do 30 damage twice instead of 20 damage twice. Identical cooldown.

[UndeadEdd]

If you ask that question you may as well ask "why AC20 at all". And if you ask that, it means you still have a lot to learn about the game.

The ability to land 2 highly accurate and quick hits, each delivering 20 points of damage, backed up by 2 LPL, is very deadly. There's no damage spread when the enemy twists their torso, or just move fast, unlike with UAC5. There's no charge up time and more damage per shot than a Gauss Rifle. When you start brawling with 2 AC20, enemies start losing components very fast. Of course, for best heat dissipation you fire them 0.5 sec. apart.

This is my build KGC-000

[Hit the Deck]

So I've been experimenting with this and this dual AC/20 KGC builds for several days. Please ignore the armor distribution.

Unfortunately, my conclusion confirms that I still prefer the quad UAC/5 or 2Gauss/3LL build. A quad UAC/5 is basically a flatter, faster, longer, higher DPS twin AC/20 and you can effectively suppress enemies with it (until they jam!). Although you need to charge Gauss and can't snap shoot with it, its range and heat advantage on a slow 53.5 kph KGC just beat AC/20 most of the time. Moreover, you can alpha two of 'em with practically zero heat! They also synergies wonderfully with lasers because of their projectile speed.

The thing that hurts AC/20 the most is its ghost heat. In brawling situation, the 40 PPFLD damage is awesome but it creates around 24 heat because of GH and you lose brawling endurance. If you chain/stagger fire the dual AC/20, a quad UAC/5 is practically just better.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 02 August 2015 - 05:59 AM.

[UndeadEdd]

"If you chain/stagger fire the dual AC/20, a quad UAC/5 is practically just better." - delivering 20 damage per shot from each arm allows for greater accuracy and supporting with 2 LPL gives that extra DPS. Remember, you don't need to keep a high DPS for long, most mechs will die/lose components after 1-2 salvos of AC20 -> AC20 -> 2 LPL.
I remember how I was in a Grasshopper and a quad UAC5 KGC was all over me. He just couldn't concentrate his fire on a single component long enough to kill me. He stripped lots of armor but couldn't kill me before I escaped, even though I had an XL engine. If he had 2 AC20 and 2 LPL he would have finished me in short order.
If your opponent is stupid enough to stand still and eat a stream of quad UAC5 then you're in luck. Otherwise, the high alpha of 2AC20 + 2LPL will do the work.
In most cases, having a high alpha trumps having a high DPS. High DPS works best against stupid targets and not much more.

P.S. It's best used on the 000 model, which has the AC20 quirks.

Edited by UndeadEdd, 02 August 2015 - 06:38 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

UndeadEdd, on 02 August 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

...
If your opponent is stupid enough to stand still and eat a stream of quad UAC5 then you're in luck. Otherwise, the high alpha of 2AC20 + 2LPL will do the work.
In most cases, having a high alpha trumps having a high DPS. High DPS works best against stupid targets and not much more....

I've mentioned about this before. The Alpha from that build you mentioned is great but it's also hot and the weapon speed doesn't synergy well with each other. You can only alpha 2 times and it puts you in the brink of overheating, hence my comment about its (lack of) combat endurance. Sure, against a single opponent (preferably not an Assault) it's great.

The thing with quad UAC/5 is that the first streams (before jamming) are basically very fast AC/20s if you alpha them.

[D34DMetal]

2 AC20s are far more reliable for brawling than 4 UAC5s. This is especially true on the KGC-000 because of the AC20 quirks: all one has to do is fire one AC20 and then fire the other.

[Hit the Deck]

I'll give it more chance and play it some more because all this time I didn't put an AC/20 Cooldown module *gasp*.

[Frytrixa]

Bows3r, on 31 July 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

If you're shooting large lasers and LRM's at enemies instead of your arm mounted ballistics, then you're doing something horribly wrong, with any King Crab build. Also, if you fire your AC/20's with a .5 second delay, you don't get Ghost Heat.

Build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e758829ee2db130

I have to say that the 4xLRM15 crab is worth it.

[Bows3r]

Frytrixa, on 02 August 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

I have to say that the 4xLRM15 crab is worth it.

Maybe, if you are just trolling around in the solo queue.

[Bloodweaver]

Bows3r, on 31 July 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

DPS & PPFLD in a Brawl. A Dual AC/20 King Crab will beat any other King Crab in a brawl.

Have you tried dual AC/5 + dual UAC/5 + dual AC/2? I've made my loyalty King Crab into one such beast, and its dakka can only be described as INSANE. You're talking about 12 pinpoint damage per arm, 12+5 for 17 when you double tap that arm's UAC. That's only three points of damage less than the 20, but it refires at a ridiculously faster rate.

[Gamuray]

What I tend to experience is that a slow mech with short range weapons tends to either:

a. Not get to the fight fast enough
b. Not get out of fire quick enough to not lose most of it's function
c. Attract way too much attention

Having range on a slow moving, heavily armored mech tends to be more beneficial than 12 more damage in an alpha (2 lpl + 2 ac20 is only 12 more than 2 gauss + 2 ppc/lpl). The range allows you to do damage even if you are lagging behind, and it means you can do your work without getting concentrated down fast (which is what happens when people see a 100 ton mech that can't hit them yet due to range issues). Additionally, a 100 ton assault mech, even being the KGC with its crazy twist speed, can have trouble tracking targets up close (no lateral arm movement), so having that range makes it easier to aim.

50 damage at any range trumps 62 damage at short range for MOST situations, especially on slow mechs.
20 damage rapid fire trumps 62 damage alpha in most situations, except short range, again, especially on SLOW MECHS.

If you want to run a slow mech with short range, than go ahead with the ac20's, but in most cases a long range loadout will do better on a slow 100 ton mech. Short range loadouts do better with mechs that can manuever in and out of the fight well.

Edited by Gamuray, 02 August 2015 - 06:41 PM.

[White Bear 84]

Have you ever run round a corner into an AC40 crab? It hurts..