74 replies to this topic

[LMP]

Which Mech can take the most punishment?

I have a Victor Dragon Slayer and even though it has more armor than my Timber Wolf it's easier to kill.

Why is that?

[Night Thastus]

Armor is important, sure, but never forget hitboxes.

Some 'Mechs (like the Awesome) have absolutely gigantic side torsos. If you run an XL in one (and you shouldn't!) you'll die very easy. A large CT (Center Torso) will definentally cause you trouble.

As well, the Timberwolf uses an Clan XL engine. Due to this, it can lose a side torso without dying. If your Victor uses an XL engine and loses a torso, it will immediately die.

As well, some 'Mech loadouts require close-in brawling, and some require long-range poking. Depending on the loadout and the way you play the 'Mech, you'll see differences in lifespan.

Finally, the Timberwolf is one of the better 'Mechs in the game. It has excellent speed, the armor of a 75-ton 'Mech, a clan XL engine, and great firepower. It will outclass the Victor (one of the IS 'mechs that has pretty bad quirks atm) every time if they play the same roll.

Not to say the Victor isn't fun, or that the Victor is a bad 'Mech. It's not, I love it, and it's tons of fun. However, you're comparing apples and oranges when you compare it to the Timberwolf.

As for your original question, the Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Thunderbolt, Arctic Cheetah, Banshee, Stalker, Zeus and the Orion (ocassionally) are all very "tanky" 'Mechs.

Choose one you like, and play the f*ck out of it. You'll get better with them as time goes on, and they'll feel more tanky once you master torso twisting with them.

Edited by Night Thastus, 01 August 2015 - 12:59 PM.

[InspectorG]

LMP, on 01 August 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

Which Mech can take the most punishment?

I have a Victor Dragon Slayer and even though it has more armor than my Timber Wolf it's easier to kill.

Why is that?

The problem is in MWO you simply DONT WANT to 'take punishment'. There are no tanks in MWO.

Quirks, Hitboxes, agility /etc can buy some time but ANY mech that gets focused down by 2-3+ mechs is getting hurt.

Direwhale, FS, doesnt matter.

Your playstyle and weightclass will determine survivability more than armor.

That being said, Stalkers, Firestarters, Summoners, Zeus, Timbys, and Stormcrows are the better blends of hitboxes, armor, speed, /etc.

Really the only way you 'take punishment' in MWO is if the enemy cant aim.

[Wintersdark]

InspectorG, on 01 August 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

The problem is in MWO you simply DONT WANT to 'take punishment'. There are no tanks in MWO.

This. One on one, tankiness matters. If you're being focussed, though, it doesn't matter.

Quote

Quirks, Hitboxes, agility /etc can buy some time but ANY mech that gets focused down by 2-3+ mechs is getting hurt.

Yup.

Quote

Your playstyle and weightclass will determine survivability more than armor.

Well, weight class due to armor amount.

Quote

That being said, Stalkers, Firestarters, Summoners, Zeus, Timbys, and Stormcrows are the better blends of hitboxes, armor, speed, /etc.

Really the only way you 'take punishment' in MWO is if the enemy cant aim.

Yeah. Victor's have more armor than Timberwolves, but Timberwolves have very large engines and well distributed hitboxes. This allows the Timberwolf to twist faster, and spread damage more. For the Victor to mount a comparable engine it'd have to be an XL engine and risk death at a single ST loss or, it'd have to give up a massive amount of weaponry and run a large standard engine.

The biggest benefit of larger engines isn't so much ground speed as twist and turn speed. Being a bit faster in a straight line run helps, but not nearly as much as your ability to twist and turn, to protect damaged components.



Also, remember: The timberwolf has 64 ST armor, and (up to, depending on how it's distributed) 92 CT armor. The Victor? 68 ST armor and 100 CT armor.

That's a total of 4 side torso armor and 8 center torso armor difference. That's trivial. Look at how much damage your mech throws downrange in an alpha, and consider how mcuch of a real difference that 8 pts CT armor makes.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Stalkers are very difficult to core out and some of them actually carry enough PEW PEW to be good in the current meta. Hell, the Stalker 4N is probably the only IS mech that's remotely competitive with the top tier clan mechs.

[The Flying Gecko]

The one with the best pilot.

[InspectorG]

Wintersdark, on 01 August 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

That's a total of 4 side torso armor and 8 center torso armor difference. That's trivial. Look at how much damage your mech throws downrange in an alpha, and consider how mcuch of a real difference that 8 pts CT armor makes.

Yeah. The only way 8 points of armor is gonna make a difference is if PGI calculated and had a system for just how many Alphas of X damage each mech should be able to withstand. The difference between 3 to 4 alphas to a ST, hypothetically to the Victor.

I dont think PGI figured this out or implemented anything like this.

[ProfessorD]

"WHICH MECH IS THE HARDEST TO KILL?"

LMP, on 01 August 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

Which Mech can take the most punishment?
...

These are two very different questions. The hardest mech to kill is the one that is never in your line of fire when you're ready to shoot it. It's either behind cover when your guns are ready to shoot, or it's coming at you from and angle you didn't expect. Standing in the open and taking fire is always a bad idea.

LMP, on 01 August 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

...
I have a Victor Dragon Slayer and even though it has more armor than my Timber Wolf it's easier to kill.

Why is that?

Does your Victor have an XL engine? Victors have a very flat front profile, which makes it easy for an enemy to aim and pick a particular component to core out. Victor sides can only take about 2 large alphas. Timberwolves have torsos that are just sufficiently curved to make it hard to pick out one to hit at range. Add in their ability to survive a side torso loss, and Timberwolves are vastly more durable than XL Victors and probably more durable even than standard engine Victors in most kinds of engagements.

[Tahribator]

Atlas, Stalker, Orion, Thunderbolt, Hunchback, Arctic Cheetah are among the hardest 'Mechs to take down for your average public player. 'Mech tankiness is usually influenced by the following factors:

• Scaling (too big, too small)
  
• Geometry (Does it have a big nose? Protruding parts? How much surface area? Is it narrow or wide? Do arms block shots?)
  
• Hitboxes (What's the relative size of the CT and STs? How does the frontal profile look?)
  
• To some degree, mobility (Faster 'Mechs tank more damage due to difficulty of focusing certain components. JJ usage mitigates incoming damage to legs)

If we consider the Victor with the above factors:

• Scaling: The Victor is oversized. It has a relatively wide torso, chubby legs and arms. This means it takes more damage than its armor can handle.
  
• Geometry: Frontally, the geometry of the Victor is favorable. It has no protruding parts (no "nose"). In fact, the CT area is depressed, giving it good torso twisting qualities. The arms are big enough to mitigate incoming damage.
  
• Hitboxes: The CT/ST hitboxes have similar sizes, but the CT becomes considerably wide towards the upper torso (where people usually shoot at). Therefore frontally, it's easy to core. The rear hitboxes are a total disaster though. Most of the rear is dominated by the CT and indeed the Victor is very easy to backstab.
  
• Mobility: The Victor can be extremely mobile to cover its weaknesses. Jump jets throw off opponent aim and the ability to mount big XLs make it as fast as some mediums. Very easy to torso twist.

and the Timber Wolf:

• Scaling: The TBR's scale is pretty much just right.
  
• Geometry: TBR has a nose, which means more surface area. The missile pods also add more surface area, but they're rarely used. When engaged from front, it has a pretty narrow profile and tanks well but attacks from side result in easy ST loss.
  
• Hitboxes: Very balanced. CT/ST ratio is very favorable. Frontally the CT tanks, but as soon as you twist a little the sides take over.
  
• Mobility: Very similar to the Victor. Insanely fast for its tonnage and can use JJs. Combined with its good scaling and hitboxes this is a very hard 'Mech to take down.

Obviously some people will disagree, but this is my take. I hope it helps you.

[Bloodweaver]

There's a lot of reasons why one 'Mech might be tougher than the other. As to which is the toughest in the game? Good question!

The one that immediately comes to mind for me, is the Zeus. It has the trifecta of MWO toughness:

1) Good hitboxes; damage spreads over the 'Mech naturally and without effort on the pilot's part. Spreading it intentionally works even better as a result.

2) Small overall size for its weight (which amplifies the hitboxes' efficiency by making them smaller in addition to well-designed)

3) Solid durability quirks (buffs to both armor and structure in all torsos locations)

It can also mount large engines. This can increase durability by increasing agility, meaning it can both move into cover faster, and it can twist to protect torso locations more effectively.

The Firestarter is another solid candidate. It doesn't have durability quirks, but its hitboxes are possibly even more favorable than the Zeus'. And obviously, its agility contributes a lot more to its survivability.

Centurions used to be gods at staying alive through swathes of incoming fire, and were the closest thing MWO had to a bona-fide tank. But now that they've had their arm hitboxes reduced, they are not at that level anymore. They are still decently survivable, but there are a few mediums that are harder to put down - Enforcer and Stormcrow, most noticeably.

Stalkers, Thunderbolts, and Banshees are all pretty tough as well. Banshees retain durability even with XL engines, since their arms are so large and so disposable.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 02 August 2015 - 09:42 AM.

[LMP]

Thanks you guys! I learned a ton, fascinating stuff.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

IMO the Zeus. Tiny for an assault mech with fairly good shielding qualities, but perks that bring it to 100t torso armor values.

Edited by vnlk65n, 02 August 2015 - 03:36 PM.

[Zookeeper Dan]

Stalkers are very tanky for IS mechs, just don't use a XL engine!

They are almost all side torso with a center torso hitbox that is very hard to focus fire on. Where some mechs have to twist all the way to spread damage the Stalker can spread with a gentle swa back and forth. And once your side torsos are gone the damage they transfer to the center torso is reduced (I don't remember the exact percentage).

But personally, I'm much harder to kill in a medium or light. They have the speed to best make use of positioning and to get out of trouble quickly. Even my Urbie survives a long time when I make sure the enemy is focused on heavies and assaults instead of the little mech pew pewing from between their legs!

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

any jumping 75+ ton mech is hard to kill if the pilot torso twists and spreads damage with those jump jets.

[Rushin Roulette]

Id say the Warhammers and Marauders are the hardest to kill. I have never seen any of them go down to enemy fire in any MWO matches.

[Ascaloth]

Hardest to kill
Lights:
Firestarter
Spider
Arctic Cheetah
These 3 have nearly bugged hitboxes, if they don't stop moving they become very hard to kill.

Mediums:
Centurion with STD engine
Stormcrow
Hunchback 4G
Enforcer with STD engine

Heavies:
Timberwolf
Thunderbolt (specially with STD engine)
Hellbringer and Cataphrac are pretty tough too, but not so tough as the two mentioned above.

Assaults:
Dire Wolf (sustain tons of damage, but can be easily killed by a skilled pilot in a fast mech)
Banshee with STD engine
Stalker with STD engine (hard to kill, but can be "easily" unarmed by taking out both side torsos)
King Crab can also be pretty hard to kill if the pilot knows how to spread damage

Easiest to kill
Lights:
Kit Fox
Locust
Mist Lynx
Any light that likes to stand still in front of the enemy...

Mediums:
Cicada, specially if it stands still
Nova
Black Jack

Heavies:
Catapult
Dragon
Quickdraw
Jagermech (unless using STD engine, which is pretty rare)
Mad Dog

Assaults:
Victor
Awesome
Highlander (unless using STD engine, but it's uncommon)

Any Inner Sphere mech above the light category using XL become much easier to kill, but they also become more dangerous in terms of weaponry. And remember: one does not put an XL on the Atlas.

[LMP]

Rushin Roulette, on 03 August 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

Id say the Warhammers and Marauders are the hardest to kill. I have never seen any of them go down to enemy fire in any MWO matches.

Very funny.

[DONTOR]

STD engine stalker has been and might always be the toughest mech to kill.

[Spare Parts Bin]

The Spider,The Firestarter, Raven,Arctic Cheetah. I hate all those machines but respect a skilled Mechwarrior.

[Void Angel]

InspectorG, on 01 August 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

The problem is in MWO you simply DONT WANT to 'take punishment'. There are no tanks in MWO.

Yes there are. There's not a "tank" role, like in RPGs - but no one is thinking that there is. 'Mechs like an Atlas or Thunderbolt can absorb amazing amounts of damage where other 'mechs will fold. This makes it advantageous for them to deliberately try to attract enemy fire during a push. If a Thunderbolt can make them pound half his 'mech to scrap (even at the cost of maximizing his own damage) instead of blowing the arm off his Dragon teammate, that's a win for the team. Similarly, leading a push with an Atlas is often suicide; but if I can get my team to support me, the alphas I soak up and the disruption I cause walking through the enemy team is enough to leave an Atlas-shaped hole in the enemy team - and my own guys clean up behind me. Even if you're not brawling, being able to take incoming fire more effectively will make you a better long-range poker, mobile hitter, or whatever.

In any case, when people want to know about taking punishment, they're actually thinking about their 'mech in the right way: armor is a resource, not a treasure - it should be used as such.

Edited by Void Angel, 05 August 2015 - 06:23 PM.