131 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

That really is the biggest issue with this game, its just not fun....

It ends in a roll either way.

basically the way it plays out is...poke out, fire, hope the enemy isnt aiming at you, fire, pull back....repeat until the game ends 12-0 or 0-12.....and really either way its just not fun.....

Then, when your a pair in the god mode Q, its even less fun, cuz your typically dead under the hellish fire of the premade you get put against.

If there is ever a moment of fun, it lasts all of like 30 seconds, its a furious 30 seconds of fire and the game is over......then its just mobbing around mopping up or being mopped up and NEXT!

Game really is just boring.....

Then go to CW, its alot of the same thing. Either being the one on defense sitting in the gate shooting the baddies coming through the door, or being the baddies being shot to bits at the door...either way, its almost never a truly good game....then the amount of output each mech has, means you just melt in seconds anyway....big ass Atlas, the tankiest of mechs and you just vaporize....

Game is Robbits, its cool, nice art work and all....but core gameplay is just plain boring.

[Deathpactt]

I have a friend who is trying MWO right now and when we duo, there is always experienced players on the other side and he can not do anything versus them. When he solo, he can do quite good. It is realy hard to recruit a friend to mwo.

Edited by Deathpactt, 02 August 2015 - 02:23 AM.

[9thDeathscream]

As much as some people may disagree, the solo queue is the best it's ever been.

In saying that. Both my sons stopped playing when the queue system changed. In their words it's unfair being put against large groups when in a bunch of small groups. This coming from a 10 and 8 year old.

Go figure!

What's the solution then. Mess up the solo queue again. Or limit group sizes in the group queue?

Both bad things in my opinion.

[Kodyn]

Unless the MM already tries to do so, I forget the exact formulas..what about groups 8+ only get matched with other groups 8+, unless it's impossible, then it matches whatever it can find? Wouldn't be a catch-all, but might clean it up a bit...again, if the MM doesn't already factor that in.

Even being in a unit that frequently drops with large groups, I also wouldn't be opposed to seeing some sort of handicap to a full 12 premade when facing anything other than another 12-man. I honestly don't know what the handicap would be, how it would be implemented, etc, it's just a rough idea.

The easiest solution, and probably what PGI will end up doing in the long run, will just be to ditch their MM altogether and allow matchups to be entirely random. You get what you get, no MM to blame, no Elo being factored in, stomps happen, or they don't, it's just completely luck of the draw.

Not sure that'd help the new player experience, but it really can't get much worse than it is...they really can do whatever they want with the MM if they just did something for the new player experience, some sort of small single-player campaign that teaches the basics of setting up your mech, introduces modules, LRM-avoidance tactics, how to switch off your 3PV, allows you to run some optimal, leveled mechs against AI to see how different they feel from stock, un-basic, etc...Something, ya know?

[TWIAFU]

Mors Draco, on 01 August 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

I drop in a group of 2 or 3 all the time, and rarely have I come across a real "12 man pre-made". And just like in solo queue you win some, you lose some.

With what we know now about 12man boogeyman. he was and is getting stopmed by another PUG team.

So. he should ask himself, what do I want to have nerf'd with my mechs so I wont stomp and won't be stomped by other pugs.

So OP, how do you want to nerf yourself and your mechs? You cannot be allowed to stop other pugs and they cannot be allowed to stomp you. Since using all the tools given to players to avoid getting stomped are not used, teamwork and coordination are not used in the GROUP queue, only thing left is to nerf yourself and your mechs.

Funny how stomps are only evil when it is the group or CW setting. Must be the norm and used to getting stomped in solotardlandia.

[Kodyn]

TWIAFU, on 02 August 2015 - 03:49 AM, said:

With what we know now about 12man boogeyman. he was and is getting stopmed by another PUG team.

So. he should ask himself, what do I want to have nerf'd with my mechs so I wont stomp and won't be stomped by other pugs.

So OP, how do you want to nerf yourself and your mechs? You cannot be allowed to stop other pugs and they cannot be allowed to stomp you. Since using all the tools given to players to avoid getting stomped are not used, teamwork and coordination are not used in the GROUP queue, only thing left is to nerf yourself and your mechs.

Funny how stomps are only evil when it is the group or CW setting. Must be the norm and used to getting stomped in solotardlandia.

Funny how you had one good point buried in all the sarcasm and trash talk, and it was lost due to your need to be a tool to new players....

Yes, group queue does tend to produce more teams of any size using coordination, comms, and teamwork. This is not the point however, because it's not like a new player looking to learn from a friend by dropping with them has a choice of any other queue to use....

Gotta love how for every useful response, you get two from people with the "doesn't happen to me, therefore it doesn't exist/I don't care, herp de derp!" attitude.

This is also probably why PGI has to take so long to get anything done..they have to wade through feedback that's half useful, half people proclaiming that everything's ok all the time just because their own, personal gaming experience works for them, so screw anyone else....

[LordKnightFandragon]

Deathpactt, on 02 August 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

I have a friend who is trying MWO right now and when we duo, there is always experienced players on the other side and he can not do anything versus them. When he solo, he can do quite good. It is realy hard to recruit a friend to mwo.

And hence, the player population and retention is very poor...

[Triordinant]

This is an old complaint with no resolution in sight. I explained the reason why it is the way it is here 7 months ago. Unfortunately, the partial solution in the second paragraph won't work if CW is a dead zone.

As for letting duos or other tiny groups into the solo queue, Russ Bullock shot that down 11 months ago here.

[Josef Koba]

I've been involved in this discussion before and I tend to agree with the OP, though I understand why others are against such a thing. I love this game. I have vastly more hours in it than in any other. C3 shows I have 1,700 hours in it, so I've dropped with my lance mate that much, and I probably have another 500 hours in game by myself. However, I no longer find dropping with my lance mate all that fun. Lately, I don't even ask him if he's getting on; I just play by myself. He and I are usually among the top scorers even in the group queue, but we lose constantly. I mean constantly. And not just close losses. Most of them are 12-4 or worse. It's frustrating and I personally despise it. We rarely have a competitive game. I probably lose just as much in the solo queue, but the chances are greater that I experience closer games. Definitely more nail biters. Vastly more enjoyment on my part.

A week ago my nephew got back into the game. He never played that much to begin with (for a week we had a whole four man lance) and lost interest due to the learning curve and generally not being that good. I implored him to come back. He did, patched like 70 patches, and we grouped up. I don't know how they figure average ELO or what, but we got slaughtered over and over and over again. It was not fun for him. It was even less fun for me because I wasn't dropping with an experienced pilot like usual; someone with whom I have almost 2,000 hours of fake combat time; someone who reads my movements and adjusts. It was terrible. I doubt he'll play again. I can't say as I blame him. He's a teenager and hasn't the money for premium time, and thus I can't help him train. There's only so much I can show him in the group queue, when he spends the majority of his time spectating other pilots.

I got another friend back into the game too, though what sort of friend am I when I encourage utter frustration? Well, he's doing okay this time around. Learning, spending time figuring out how to make builds and use them. I had him watch a few of my matches when he was over. He's a huge BT fan, and is enjoying his time now. In the solo queue. I'm hesitant to invite him to a group because we'll be thrown to the wolves. He'll be slaughtered with impunity against veteran groups whether I'm with him or not. I'll die more and get frustrated.

The only place I enjoy in MWO these days is the solo queue. That's it. I miss dropping with my lance mate for hours, talking about life while we take the fight to the enemy. We just get blasted all the time now. It's lame. Essentially, the thing I most enjoyed in this game has been taken away. We get rolled in group queue, we get uber-rolled in CW, which isn't really made for solo players or small groups.

My options are: Play solo, have a moderate amount of fun. Play group queue with my usual lance mate. Lose. Play group queue with my green friends. Lose. Play group queue with the four of us. Still probably lose. Or make them all get premium time and fight a few boring 1 on 2 or something. Guess I'll stick to solo. Again, I understand why two man's aren't wanted in the solo queue, but we don't feel particularly wanted in the group queue either.

Edit: And the new player experience is woeful. These cats can't learn anything without HOURS of trial and error. I stuck it out and became pretty competent in my own right. My lance mate stuck it out too. You guys stuck it out. But most people? They're not going to when all they experience is overheating and insta-death.

Edited by Josef Koba, 02 August 2015 - 06:45 AM.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 01 August 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

It's for practicing the basics against a live opponent. People always complain about being fed to the sharks when there is a way to avoid that. Yes, it will cost money. But, that is the cost of avoiding said sharks.

That's not optimal under any circumstance.

To make C-bills, you MUST play against live opponents (the cadet bonus is woefully insufficient).

To "properly practice" amongst you and the friend, you have to provide the other player MC for premium time out of your pocket. You can't just insist on that person to get it because they don't know whether or not they want to invest in the game.

There's also a point where doing private matches doesn't fully prepare a person for a 12v12 situation anyways (1v1 isn't an actual gamemode currently).

Unless you are some generous benefactor, expecting this to be a "functional solution" won't really work. You could "wish" it would work, but it honestly does not work.

Appogee, on 01 August 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

It's really a case of "choose which form of abuse I prefer to experience"

• In the Solo Queue, I usually get plonked with quite a few noobs, who I and a couple of other experienced players are supposed to carry in the name of "average Elo". Sometimes I win PUGlotto and the team will triumph, but most commonly matche end in teeth-grindling defeats with four or more players having done less than 100 damage.
  
• In the Group Queue, my team of 4 to 6 will often come up against groups of very high Elo players in meta Mechs who spend their days clubbing seals together. My team and I simply aren't as good as these guys, and depending on the quality of the other small groups we drop with, we usually lose in the range of 12-2. We can stretch that out to 12-6 if we all go meta. I don't understand why these high-Elo groups aren't playing each other?

So...



When I'm trying to level my unlevelled Mechs, I play in the Solo Queue. At least there I will win PUGlotto about once in every five matches, and get my 2XP for the day. I set my personal goal as getting the highest damage on my team. That gives me something achievable to aim for, even when the teeth-grind losses yield so little XP and CBills.

In the Group Queue, I and the better players on our team have to go meta in order to have any chance of winning. It's less fun for us, truth be told, to be forced into a narrow range of Mechs, and be unable to level our new Mechs. When we get into a cycle of repeatedly dropping against top tier meta groups farming us, I call it quits after the 5th loss and go do something less frustrating.

I realise I have options... join a larger unit so at least I have the weight of 12 players on a team, or get better. But I like to play with my friends, and I doubt I can get much better when my lowest ping is 160 and I've already been playing 3 hours per day for 2 years.

I can't help but think better matchmaking - such as I experience in other games - could make MWO better for all concerned.

I don't think that's entirely fair to label the group queue to what it is. Sure, there are people/groups that will just stomp you anyways, which happens. However, those high Elo groups are far and few in between. Many prefer to play against their own Elo, but there's just not enough of the population that skews towards high Elo. You wonder why the state of the game revolves around a lot of mediocrity and derpage? You could thank PGI for a terribad NPE.

I still run and build for meta, but in some cases it would take a special snowflake to "survive" said meta with no meta, but that is probably an inconsistent thing to begin with honestly.

The MM could be better, but remember that their best guy when "adjusting the MM" left for Amazon, so we might as well be "stuck" under these changes for a while (previous attempts before Karl Berg's departure were on derptastic levels of MM matches).

Edited by Deathlike, 02 August 2015 - 07:25 AM.

[Taffer]

Triordinant, on 02 August 2015 - 05:33 AM, said:

As for letting duos or other tiny groups into the solo queue, Russ Bullock shot that down 11 months ago here.

Just his position at the time.

[Dirkdaring]

Mors Draco, on 01 August 2015 - 06:16 PM, said:

I drop in a group of 2 or 3 all the time, and rarely have I come across a real "12 man pre-made". And just like in solo queue you win some, you lose some.

Was about to say the same thing. I drop with low numbers all the time, I'd guess our win rate is 50/50.

[MechaBattler]

It's gonna be rough for any new people looking to play with their friends come Steam launch.

[Screech]

I would be for a duo queue but I doubt it would be able to sustain itself. I figure it would find a similar fate that the 12 man queue had though it would probably take a longer time. I would rather play solo in the group queue then be stuck playing with people that have to have a numbers advantage in order to enjoy the game.

[Mystere]

LordKnightFandragon, on 02 August 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

basically the way it plays out is...poke out, fire, hope the enemy isnt aiming at you, fire, pull back....repeat until the game ends 12-0 or 0-12.....and really either way its just not fun.....

Well, you are entitled to play the game any way you like, even if it's just peekaboo with robots. Just note though that many others play quite differently.

[Sigmar Sich]

Watch last townhall from 1:02:00 to 1:11:30. Group size was discussed.

[Mystere]

Deathpactt, on 02 August 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

I have a friend who is trying MWO right now and when we duo, there is always experienced players on the other side and he can not do anything versus them. When he solo, he can do quite good. It is realy hard to recruit a friend to mwo.

Why is it that the experienced players always seem to be on the "other" side. Why do you never have any on yours? What have you two done that Hades himself condemns you to such a fate?

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 02 August 2015 - 07:24 AM, said:

That's not optimal under any circumstance.

To make C-bills, you MUST play against live opponents (the cadet bonus is woefully insufficient).

To "properly practice" amongst you and the friend, you have to provide the other player MC for premium time out of your pocket. You can't just insist on that person to get it because they don't know whether or not they want to invest in the game.

There's also a point where doing private matches doesn't fully prepare a person for a 12v12 situation anyways (1v1 isn't an actual gamemode currently).

Unless you are some generous benefactor, expecting this to be a "functional solution" won't really work. You could "wish" it would work, but it honestly does not work.

I never said it was optimal. But if people claim they have deep pockets and are really ready to drop boatloads of money into the game, then there are options for them to get started without being fed to the sharks. Hence my cynicism.

[Y E O N N E]

I dunno, I duo in group queue all the time and it's fairly productive. When you duo, you stand a great chance of getting paired with an 8- or 10-man drop of one of the better units, and that evens out some of the complete mix-team drops you get.

I would rather drop as a duo than in a group of 3 to 7.

[TWIAFU]

Mystere, on 01 August 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Or they can just spend money for premium time and do as they wish inside private matches.

Or, not spend any money and participate in Events.