212 replies to this topic

[Revis Volek]

Tarl Cabot, on 03 August 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

Internal structure was also doubled at the same time the armor was. PGI at first had not realized that internal structure had also been doubled.



Due to how the maps are setup and the customization of mechs, a team that has a good Lead caller who communicates and a majority of the team focus fire, mechs will be destroyed quickly. Even if we were running stock IS mechs, it would still happen, it will not run amok from one mech to the next. Even dropping mechs from 12 to 8 would not change too much due to the loadouts.

Clan mechs may run hot but between Clan and customized IS, overall they tend to have the ability to carry more weapons, that if the timing is right, allows them to alpha them, partially due to more heatsinks as well as a flexible max heat scale. And for IS mechs to run faster and carry more, XL engines are needed so only a side torso has to be lost instead of the Clan's CT and/or both side torsos.

What does that last bit have to do with this thread?

Clams is OP is not the topic here...

Doubling armor is another blanket nerf or buff (in this case) that is BAD!!!! How long have you guys been here and you STILL think blanket buffs are a good idea.

Time and time again we see all encompassing nerfs and buffs come in only to be removed because PGI didn't look before the took the leap.

There are much better ideas out their then just "turning everything to 10" also if you truly wanted someone ear about this dont use these forums.

At this point im going to start reporting threads like this for Spam, you guys make em 6 times a week and all of them say the same dribble the last one said. Jazz, you have been here long enough to know that if you scrolled down till last week you can just revive your last whine thread with whatever your on about this week.

Edited by DarthRevis, 04 August 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[Ultimax]

Wintersdark, on 03 August 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

No.

Armor doubling isn't fair. It appears fair: "Oh, but you're increasing everyone's armor by a percentage amount, that's the very definition of fair!.

It's not.

See, Double the armor on a Locust, it still gets one-shot. Lights are still quite fragile, because gaining 1/4 of a standard alpha's armor to your CT isn't enough to really make a substantial difference.


On the other hand, the atlas gains, what, 120 armor for it's CT?

See the problem? You make Heavies and Assaults vastly more survivable, but barely touch Lights and Mediums. If you're a heavy or assault pilot, that may seem fine, but it's terrible in a game that's already heavily skewed to big mechs. Imagine trying to take on an Atlas in a Jenner after armor is doubled again.

Koniving had a solution to this, some time back in the day.

While I agree with you overall (especially for one-shots) - on a good light mech like the FS9 or Arctic Cheetah I will often use nearly all of my mech's armor before I die.


If I work my buns off in an assault mech, there is still a very high chance that my leg armor was totally irrelevant and that as a very slow, large object outright avoiding damage is almost impossible.



So yes, doubling armor gives more the Assault in raw armor - but much of it is functionally unusable (legs) and there is no easy way to calculate pure damage avoidance (ultra-high speed & small zie) in terms of survivability gained.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 August 2015 - 09:00 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Bcs simply doubling/halving armor/damage values debalances the "Inter-Weightclass-Balance" !!!

[Veev]

Introduce convergence and prosper.

[Almond Brown]

process, on 03 August 2015 - 04:29 PM, said:

Focus fire is OP.

Being the "focus" of that fire is what makes the TTK to low. So, just be less "focused".

[xWiredx]

Shocking that another Davion player who probably lost several matches in a row because he ran off alone with his guns blazing into a group full of enemies is complaining about ttk.

Really shocking.

Before OP says anything about my Jade Falcon tag - I finished 21st and was at one point as high as 8th in the Boar's Head for that hero mech tournament AND I STILL RUN THE 400XL ENGINE IN IT. I regularly run mechs from every class as well as both IS and clan.

If you want choose your own adventure games where you don't need to use teamwork and you don't need to aim well, go play those instead. The current ttk is fine unless you're doing things wrong.

[KraftySOT]

Says current TTK is fine.

Probably doesnt remember after CB when TTK was astronomically longer, and was also fine.

Seems legit.

Edited by KraftySOT, 04 August 2015 - 10:06 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Joseph Mallan, on 04 August 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

What logo am I sporting???

A tag well no....but....you find it entertaining to play a Stone Rhino in the TT...should I go into detail now why that says enough *tease*

Edited by Bush Hopper, 04 August 2015 - 10:26 AM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

KraftySOT, on 04 August 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Says current TTK is fine.

Probably doesnt remember after CB when TTK was astronomically longer, and was also fine.

Seems legit.

1v1, TTK is actually just fine Krafty, it's the getting focused by multiple Mechs that drops TTK, something you'll find it repeated multiple times in this thread, and other threads on this same subject. And getting focused should mean TTK goes to hell, that happens even in TT, no reason it should be different in a video game, especially one where each pilot actually controls where their shots go instead of random dice rolls making that determination.

The only reason some people feel that TTK in CB was longer is because they fail to remember correctly exactly how it was, that nostalgia effect taking place, pure and simple. I could core out a Mech just as quickly in CB after armor and internals were doubled as I can today using the same Mechs I used in CB like my Founder's Atlas, same damage output as in CB. Jenners could core out Assaults pretty damn fast, remember all the complaints about that? Jenners could also be instagibbed by a single Atlas, remember?

We do have more Mechs which can carry higher alphas, but we've ALWAYS been able to instagib all Mechs and reduce TTK to 0 seconds with a SINGLE Mech's loadout, that's been around since CB, it's why armor values were doubled in the first place, remember? Didn't stop it from happening, even with internals being doubled at the same by accident.

1v1, TTK is not low unless you get cockpitted or backstabbed. Play stupid and become the target of a lance or more Mechs, TTK can be 0, but that's to be expected, isn't it? Or do people REALLY expect to be able to make stupid moves and survive them multiple times? That's not exactly something you see in a game that emphasizes personal skills, which is what MWO is after all, especially not when said game not only emphasizes personal skills but also rewards TEAM skills at the same time.

So, if you play stupid and end up facing a lance or more by your self, you should expect to be one with the universe REAL fast. Take the time remaining in the match to figure out where you got stupid and learn from it.

Or come here and whine about TTK being too low because that's easier then admitting you messed up, because the gods know, personal responsibility isn't something we should be forcing on people.

[One Medic Army]

TTK is plenty short. my executioner, the mech people are calling dead due to low payload, can 2-shot most heavies, and 2-shot cripple assaults.

Then there's the direwolf that can 2shot kill an atlas.

No, there's no way that this isn't too much concentrated firepower.

[Revis Volek]

One Medic Army, on 04 August 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

TTK is plenty short. my executioner, the mech people are calling dead due to low payload, can 2-shot most heavies, and 2-shot cripple assaults.

Then there's the direwolf that can 2shot kill an atlas.

No, there's no way that this isn't too much concentrated firepower.

I have light mechs that can 2 shot a DWF?

I dont see the problem.....

[M4rtyr]

I've only read a little if the first page but since I did start playing again over last weekend I have some thoughts on TTK.

Driving my Atlas and spectating with some lights after I die... Lights actually seem more survivable (especially since they are always the last ones alive in a losing match, or are they just cowards lol). But there is a very good reason for this, movement and lack of weapon spread.

So 90% of the time I get taken out in my Atlas I'm cored with minimal damage to my arms and fair damage to the side torsos. The primary reason for this isn't just me not torso twisting, lack of habit and also have UAC5's in the torso (need to get rid of them but that's another thread). So between my slow movement and keeping myself on target my CT is always available to hit. With lights it's not a problem because of their fast movement, you'll see damage spread out over them FAR more thn over an assault, hell when have you ever seen a heavy or assault get legged even.

Now I think the main game mechanic in question in this regard is the shear fact there isn't a weapon spread implimented, just like every other FPS your reticle gets larger the more things are going on that would impact aim. This is something thats been completely lost from MWO and it's highly impacting how easy it is to take down a heavy or assault. In TT you're hits spread out all over the place , in MWO you only need the most basic of skill to get every shot on on the torsos, if not CT itself. Because our mech movement has no impact, our taking damage has no impact, etc, etc.

End result it's not hard to core the slow movers thanks to perfect weapon targeting. PGI really needs to introduce a spread on the reticle that's effected by all these things so our shots get more spread out over targets and that would make the TTK much more reasonable without playing around with armor or damage.

On a side note, Ballistic heat needs to be dropped, laser heat likely raised a bit more, and they need to introduce Inferno SRM ammo... that you end the laser boating.

[Lugh]

KraftySOT, on 04 August 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Says current TTK is fine.

Probably doesnt remember after CB when TTK was astronomically longer, and was also fine.

Seems legit.

Sure that's why the pop tart apocalypse happened TTK was 'fine'

Sure that's why an unbuffed dragon with a UAC 5 and 4 ML could core out an atlas (rear) just as fast then as it does now...

And that's why we didn't get Ghost Heat after all that?

Edited by Lugh, 04 August 2015 - 12:52 PM.

[Night Thastus]

Armor and structure are already double what they were in the lore. TTK is fine where it is. If you're dying fast, perhaps you're just doing a bad job of torso twisting, sheilding, JJ abusing and finding cover.

[Lugh]

DarthRevis, on 04 August 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

I have light mechs that can 2 shot a DWF?

I dont see the problem.....

I cored out a DWF and a Crab from behind in no time flat to turn around a game last night.

Amazing how the right priorities do that for you, as soon as they went down our guys who'd been pushed backwards under their fire were able to surge forward and before you could blink the game was over.

[One Medic Army]

DarthRevis, on 04 August 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

I have light mechs that can 2 shot a DWF?

I dont see the problem.....

Tell me how.

Without using the words "back armor" or "cockpit" or "headshot".

[ApolloKaras]

One Medic Army, on 04 August 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

TTK is plenty short. my executioner, the mech people are calling dead due to low payload, can 2-shot most heavies, and 2-shot cripple assaults.

Then there's the direwolf that can 2shot kill an atlas.

No, there's no way that this isn't too much concentrated firepower.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm Darth and I just tested this theory, I was piloting an Atlas S, he was in a DW, he didn't two shot me. If you charge a Dire Wolf that is your problem - its a receiver. Which means it's the anchor to your firing line when mechs are coming in. Plus the DW is slow, the only thing going for it is the pilot being a good shot.

One Medic Army, on 04 August 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Tell me how.

Without using the words "back armor" or "cockpit" or "headshot".

You have to use the words back armor. Its slow. Again expand your horizons on how to take on a DW.

Edited by Saxie, 04 August 2015 - 01:08 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Saxie, on 04 August 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:

You have to use the words back armor. Its slow. Again expand your horizons on how to take on a DW.

Well, seeing as he replied to where I was talking about my executioner blowing out a side torso (from the front) in 2 hits, it's a bit of a disingenuous comparison.

My crap tier assault can kill pretty much everything lighter than 70-75 tons in 2 hits, through the front CT, and the larger mechs I can blow out the side torso instead. Without needing to back-shoot. Back-shooting I could probably 1-shot just about every mech in the game...

[Weeny Machine]

Night Thastus, on 04 August 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

Armor and structure are already double what they were in the lore. TTK is fine where it is. If you're dying fast, perhaps you're just doing a bad job of torso twisting, sheilding, JJ abusing and finding cover.

...or you need to learn to place your shots better and see how fast mechs blow up.
Just one of many examples...I fooled around with builds and put 6 MPL in a Hellbringer and a poor Raven-L showed up shortly after the match began.
Full salvo on the CT and he went up. His brother Raven came next. Same thing. And I doubt they got much damage because as I said before the match was young and they were running along the canyon.
Not very satisfying for me, but I guess even less for them.

If I want crap like that I can go and play regular shooters instead of MWO: Medal Of Honour Edition

Edited by Bush Hopper, 04 August 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[KraftySOT]

I can kill every mech in the game in less than 10 seconds.

Meh.

Its annoying. But really youre only hurting yourselves. I just feel bad everytime I leave a match in a Wubshee with 6 kills. I know that someone raged out and uninstalled. No one likes getting insta gibbed.

You wont ever reach a consensus, because its just opinion. Thats why this same thing has been argued about for 4 (5?) years now.

For some people, a Direwolf lasting 8 seconds against a Wubshee, is acceptable. For other people, they think two Direwolves fighting each other should last 40 seconds.

Its taste.

Personally, I loathe it since in the TT, two Direwolves smacking each other even with half the armor, usually takes 4-5 turns to kill each other. About 40-50 seconds.

A direwolf can kill a direwolf in a single turn here. Its silly. But as said. If you want to keep getting cored out all the time. Go for it. I dont care.