98 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Pat Kell, on 05 August 2015 - 12:33 AM, said:

FYI, I have found that when we do end the match prior to killing all 48, we get a lot of "Ah come on, let us fight!!" comments. Bottom line is that losing isn't fun and there are a lot of people who do it with very little class so I have stopped caring what the enemy feel when we beat them. I don't troll them or rub it in, I just win based on what I and my teammates want rather then what the enemy wants. Also, nice post Kinetix, I hate that it has come to this but I am not sure what else can be done at this point. It very well may be time to drop the factions to 2 or maybe 4 factions and see if a MM/ELO system would work. I would vote for it right now...may change my mind once I think more on it but for now, I agree.

What we have been doing when we drop in CW and it turns out to be a one sided match against a Unit or Strike-team;

We let them play! We don't go out to farm them, spawn camp, or whatever. We pull back and let them play. We do not use chat to make fun of them. We don't do these things because we want people to play CW and not run them off by bad SPORTSMANSHIP.

We may keep some of our mechs in the rear so they cannot engage. Try new tactics and even offer suggestions to the enemy!

If people treated others as they themselves would want to be treated, not only would the world not be so F*ed up, but our little community would be better too.

[TWIAFU]

Sthtopokeon, on 05 August 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

There must be like a hundred threads about this in these forums. I thought that all has been said, but people still seem to bother and the problem seems to persist.

So my 2 cents:

-It's not the maps (well, not primarily at least)
-It's not the farming, nor any other tactic

-It's just the enormous disparity between premades and pugs. This is where PGI has to start, when they completly rethink CW. Which I hope they'll do.

And they gave PUGs tools that they themselves ask for to close that disparity gap.

Yet, they do not use them and complain about groups using teamwork when they cannot, will not, or flatly refuse to use any one of the tools they wanted.

CW will not be made into the solotard playground that they want it to be, solo queue is there for that.

Solo queue is there for LCD play where everyone just runs to the middle and alpha strikes.

Group queue is there for group play, non-competitive, limited teamwork, less skilled/experienced.

CW queue is there for Unit/Group play, teamwork focused, more competitive, more skilled/experienced.

Queues need to be separate and defined. Warning and confirm boxes on every single queue so players know what to expect.

[Livewyr]

It's a bandaid, but what about:

A bonus for completing the objective in a timely manner?

Wipe out at least 10 mechs, and complete the objective inside 15 minutes, and you get an automatic "Efficiency" bonus of say.. 250k credits and 1500XP? (which would be boosted by Premium and hero boosts)

(Wiping out 10 mechs is a requirement because realistically, one could take 10 stormcrows and 2 arctic and essentially light rush using the armor to survive to do it.)

[BigBucket]

The answer to the OP is that spawn camping happens because the aggressors choose to employ that method.

The common reply as to the reason why that choice is made is that the rewards for destroying all enemy mechs is much greater than that for simply completing the objectives.

I am of the opinion that this is only somewhat true as the aggressors could still win by destroying all the enemy mechs just not anywhere near the drop zones if they chose to.

[Maver0ick]

DoctorDetroit, on 04 August 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Why does it annoy anyone? It gives the defenders a chance to make more c-bills and loyalty points with the help of drop ship guns.

Yes, good question. When I'm on the losing side, I'd rather go for the small chance of getting 1-2 more kills then to have to opponent take out Omega early.

[Rahul Roy]

Kin3ticX, on 05 August 2015 - 02:31 AM, said:

closer games means fewer lolstomp snowballed dropship camp games

only way to do that is with some form of a matchmaker. At the very least solos need to fight solos.

Thinking about it, your idea could actually result in units fighting units which IMO is even more preferrable.

If there were only 2 factions every unit in the opposing faction would have nowhere to go but into your queue. And they would constantly displace the 12-solo 'teams' that I complain about.

There would be absolutely no increase in wait time for the groups. Because if there was absolutely no group of any size from any faction available to defend then the 12 rainbow solos would still be allowed to launch. But even if there was only one group of 2 in the queue they would supposedly get into the next match that started. Solos would be used only to fill in the gaps for groups, which is exactly what is supposed to happen but never seems to.

I really wish they would at least test this out, perhaps during some week-long CW event ("The Alliances event" or some such).

Edited by Rahul Roy, 05 August 2015 - 06:46 AM.

[50 50]

@Kin3ticX
Ah, I see what you are getting at.
Focus the population so a match maker can be used to try and balance the games.
Fair enough.

[IraqiWalker]

Saxie, on 04 August 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

Why does it happen? (This is mainly in reference to Attack scenarios, and I mean the attacking team is the one doing the farming) Instead of wiping all 48 mechs out, all we really have to do is wipe out Omega. I find it deplorable and I see units on all sides do it every chance we get. The only thing it really does is irritate the hell out of people and just causes them not to play CW at all.

Just came out of a group where we did it. Just isn't fun at all.

99% of Pugs queue up for defense because (and I quote, verbatim) "Attacking is too hard without a 12 man". So they queue up for defense, where they are guaranteed to face a premade group. Since 9 times out of 10, premades are attacking, not defending.

[ApolloKaras]

IraqiWalker, on 05 August 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

99% of Pugs queue up for defense because (and I quote, verbatim) "Attacking is too hard without a 12 man". So they queue up for defense, where they are guaranteed to face a premade group. Since 9 times out of 10, premades are attacking, not defending.

I know why they queue for defense thats not my concern here. I'm referring to the act of just killing the pugs when the map could have already been won when the match was 38-8

[IraqiWalker]

Saxie, on 05 August 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

I know why they queue for defense thats not my concern here. I'm referring to the act of just killing the pugs when the map could have already been won when the match was 38-8

More C-bills, and bigger damage numbers?

[Leone]

BigBucket, on 05 August 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

spawn camping happens because the aggressors choose to employ that method.

I disagree.

Leone, on 29 May 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

I play to have fun. I enjoy brawling. I will often brawl into the enemy as far as possible before losing my mech. I have leveled my Tactics/Mech to a point where I can understand when to halt brawling and find cover, whether to cool off, reposition or wait for allies, in order to prolong the brawling I can manage with that mech, thereby getting more brawling in in one game. Sometimes I can even over come those enemies which do not retreat, and move forward to engage those that do.

Sometimes this means I end up brawling in someone elses spawn, with my closest opponent being the poor mechwarrior who just dropped into my engagement range. Does that clear it up for you?

I don't go into CW planning on spawn camping. I go into CW planning on brawling, and sometimes spawn camping happens.

~Leone, Raid Leader of the Crimson Hand.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 05 August 2015 - 08:43 PM.

[Pat Kell]

I do treat people as I would want to be treated....I don't troll people or poke fun at them when they are losing as I would not like that and I try the best I can all the time because if the enemy was to fall back and try to give me a chance when I have done nothing to deserve it is not how I want to be treated. If I play bad, make a mistake or otherwise don't earn what I get, then it makes me mad when people feel sorry for me and try less then their best to win. That doesn't do anyone any favors. If you want to practice in order to get better, either accept that CW is a rough place to do that or play in the private lobby where you can work on tactics in relative comfort. I don't want people to leave CW but doing what you suggest is in my opinion poor sportsmanship.

[DarklightCA]

The only thing that will make premades finish the game rather then stay and farm additional mechs is if planets had actual rewards for tagging them and holding those planets. If that were the case they would rather get in as many drops as they could and the cbill and xp bonus you get from finishing off those other mechs would not be as valueable.

A side benefit would hopefully be that more people would play CW for that and hopefully more people with form/join units and group together for CW instead of solo pugging and complaining about there losses.

[Zuesacoatl]

It is one reason why i no longer CW, I am sure it is a reason why a lot of pugs no longer do it as well, with a few other reasons thrown in. I like the long matches when it is trading blows and kills and exciting. If you are a pug stomp group, and you can end the match and let everyone move on faster by killing omega, but instead grow your epeens by stomping on less organized players, well, you push peeps like me out and start killing your chances to get into games because we are no longer filling the empty spaces. Granted, I have seen those groups move out of CW and start pug stomping in normal queue, but it is a bit more acceptable when the game is over in a few minutes.

I truly hope they consider knocking the normal queue down to no more than 4 man groups again. It will keep the big groups in CW more, and those who want to just drop and have fun in pug queue.

[IraqiWalker]

Zuesacoatl, on 05 August 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

It is one reason why i no longer CW, I am sure it is a reason why a lot of pugs no longer do it as well, with a few other reasons thrown in. I like the long matches when it is trading blows and kills and exciting. If you are a pug stomp group, and you can end the match and let everyone move on faster by killing omega, but instead grow your epeens by stomping on less organized players, well, you push peeps like me out and start killing your chances to get into games because we are no longer filling the empty spaces. Granted, I have seen those groups move out of CW and start pug stomping in normal queue, but it is a bit more acceptable when the game is over in a few minutes.

I truly hope they consider knocking the normal queue down to no more than 4 man groups again. It will keep the big groups in CW more, and those who want to just drop and have fun in pug queue.

When was the last time you played in the public queue? Groups don't play in the public queue against pugs, because the queues are split into solo, and group queues.

[Zuesacoatl]

I drop with my two brothers lately so that is what u am referring to. I hardly solo drop anymore and stay out of cw.

Edited by Zuesacoatl, 05 August 2015 - 10:25 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Zuesacoatl, on 05 August 2015 - 10:24 PM, said:

I drop with my two brothers lately so that is what u am referring to. I hardly solo drop anymore and stay out of cw.

Then you're not really dealing with pug farming, you've got premades on your side, and against you.

[Zuesacoatl]

Quote

Then you're not really dealing with pug farming, you've got premades on your side, and against you.

No, i do that now in the public queue, that is why i say that is neither here nor there. But I stopped dropping in CW as a solo because of the pug stomps that happen. It is not sporting to drag a game on just to get kills, you can make more money overall by ending games quickly and moving on. All they did was just compare their epeens on comms as they stomp pugs and drive them away. Then complain that there is no one in CW anymore to drop against. Like eating spoiled yogurt and complaining you have bubble guts, kind of your own doing.

[IraqiWalker]

Zuesacoatl, on 05 August 2015 - 11:06 PM, said:

No, i do that now in the public queue, that is why i say that is neither here nor there. But I stopped dropping in CW as a solo because of the pug stomps that happen. It is not sporting to drag a game on just to get kills, you can make more money overall by ending games quickly and moving on. All they did was just compare their epeens on comms as they stomp pugs and drive them away. Then complain that there is no one in CW anymore to drop against. Like eating spoiled yogurt and complaining you have bubble guts, kind of your own doing.

I was discussing the impossibility of this statement of yours.

Zuesacoatl, on 05 August 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

Granted, I have seen those groups move out of CW and start pug stomping in normal queue, but it is a bit more acceptable when the game is over in a few minutes.

I was not discussing pug stomping in CW with you. My responses have been mainly in regards to that statement.

As for making money, you can make more C-Bills in the public queue, than in CW, within the same time frame. Period.

[Zuesacoatl]

IraqiWalker, on 05 August 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

I was discussing the impossibility of this statement of yours.

I was not discussing pug stomping in CW with you. My responses have been mainly in regards to that statement.

As for making money, you can make more C-Bills in the public queue, than in CW, within the same time frame. Period.

I see what you are saying. I drop with my brothers, and as solo. I honestly did not know that solos are no longer dropped with groups, I have based that off of the fact that when in solo mode, I have seen same tags, same group on opfor, so it is hard not to assume. But even in group queue, when you have a full roster of 228 show up against a rag tag team of different groups, what would you call that other then a pug stomp? My brothers and I are not part of a clan anymore, we are pugs for all intents and purposes, and going against the 228 or any other group like that is considered pug stomping no matter how you try sugar coat it.