151 replies to this topic

[ACWILD]

Can't really see the problem.

Even if the AC is better than any other IS light (and i really doubt it it) then what?
You cry about what?
Balance?
Clanners have lived up until now without a single light mech that was EVEN vaguely comparable to any IS light.
Learn to live with it as they have.
Next IS pack will bring a new light better than the AC.

[Einaescherin]

Centurion72, on 11 August 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

Can't really see the problem.

Even if the AC is better than any other IS light (and i really doubt it it) then what?
You cry about what?
Balance?
Clanners have lived up until now without a single light mech that was EVEN vaguely comparable to any IS light.
Learn to live with it as they have.
Next IS pack will bring a new light better than the AC.

If you don't understand the problem (described some pages back) why leave a comment?

[ACWILD]

Einaescherin, on 11 August 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

If you don't understand the problem (described some pages back) why leave a comment?

I didn't say that i don't understand the problem but that i cannot see it.

It's different

[Astrocanis]

Centurion72, on 11 August 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

Can't really see the problem.

Even if the AC is better than any other IS light (and i really doubt it it) then what?
You cry about what?
Balance?
Clanners have lived up until now without a single light mech that was EVEN vaguely comparable to any IS light.
Learn to live with it as they have.
Next IS pack will bring a new light better than the AC.

Yeah. We've had to make due with crappy mechs like the Whale, Timberwolf, Hellbringer, Cauldron Born and Stormcrow. Sad, really, if you think about it.

[Wildstreak]

Centurion72, on 11 August 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

Next IS pack will bring a new light better than the AC.

Wolfhound is not going to be better. Maybe an alternate but not better.
Remember the Panther.
Clans will have 2 Lights come Origins release. That will be sadly and ironically funny seeing all those second line Jenner IICs being deployed as Primary choices.

[Astrocanis]

Actually, I'm not really fond of calling for nerfs, but the Cheetah is pretty absurd. I blew an arm off, two other teammates and I shot - I hit him twice dead on with AC20 and his armor didn't change. I know, I know. I'm a terrible shot, I'm hallucinating and he must have been moving even though my screen showed him standing RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME.

Do they need a nerf? Hell, I can't tell. I can't do enough damage to them when we are both stationary to tell! I can say that those who play them should be mildly embarrassed.

[Kristian Radoulov]

So much underhive crying in this post.

[Lugh]

Volthorne, on 06 August 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

Harder to kill, yes. Impossible to kill? No.

For example, a few nights ago I was playing in my Urbie, and an Arctic Cheetah decided he wanted to play with me. So what does he do? He runs up and parks himself not 5m away from me. 5m. Being a rational person, I almost immediately evaluate the situation:

• I can't outrun him, because Urbie.
  
• He's loaded to the sixes with CERSPLs because Arctic Cheetah.
  
• And I have three LLas (yes, that's right, three).
  
• And according to all of the above, only one of us is walking away from the encounter.

So what do I do? I unload into his CT because that is literally my only hope of killing him before he kills me (I would have aimed for his cockpit but I haven't had the chance to figure out which part of the AC counts as the head, so that's a risky proposition even at point-blank range). I manage to get off two full sets of beams right into his CT. Math says that 6 * 9 (damage per LLas beam) is 54. Now, I'm no genius, but Arctic Cheetas can only sport 40 armor on thier CT, and only have 20 points of internal structure, so 54 damage should have at the very least taken out a massive chunk from his CT, if not outright killed him (if his armor distribution to the front was any less than 34 points). What I saw happen was his armor not dip below a deep yellow. implying I dealt anywhere from 15-20 damage.


Something is seriously not right with their hitboxes. Them and Firestarters. I can point my Urbie at literally any other 'Mech and inflict enough damage to run them off, or think twice before trying to pick a fight. The only other exception are Huginns, because they doesn't afraid of any Light (stupid streaks). Fixes the hitboxes and I have a feeling the number of complaints will drop by an appreciable amount.

Again the same bug exists on Ravens and Firestarters. Had you pointed the three LLas at his legs he'd have poofed. Ask me how I know? I did the same thing with an ACH and the urbie pilot legged me before I could break LoS.

[Astrocanis]

Lugh, on 12 August 2015 - 05:16 AM, said:

Again the same bug exists on Ravens and Firestarters. Had you pointed the three LLas at his legs he'd have poofed. Ask me how I know? I did the same thing with an ACH and the urbie pilot legged me before I could break LoS.

Is it your position that this problem is OK? I agree with you that FS9 has a problem with hitboxes - not as bad as they were for month after month, but still a problem. Ravens seem pretty much OK at this point - I kill them and get killed in them fine. But the ACH is like the FS9 on steroids right now.

I'm not quibbling over damage, or even ECM. The problem is that they can tank. And they shouldn't be able to as well as they do. I'm not sure it's quirks. I think it's hitboxes, HSR and/or hitreg. When (if) those problems are (can be?) fixed, it will be time to evaluate the mech's abilities. Right now, the combination of speed, damage output, ECM and pseudo-invulnerability are causing all the angst.

[Einaescherin]

Centurion72, on 11 August 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

I didn't say that i don't understand the problem but that i cannot see it.

It's different

So you want some to explain it to you in more simple words and than you will see it?

[Celtic Warrior]

7 pages of crying... really! Learn now to shoot lights, we had too.

[schlagetot]

What´s with all the lil´wulfies arguing "well the ACH may be spotty but that´s ok 'cause ... OMG Firestarter!1!!1!!"?

Just an observation
Also like the OP´s certainty that a supposed nerf needs to be in the 7-10% range

Edited by schlagetot, 13 August 2015 - 06:58 AM.

[Bluttrunken]

Quirked Firestarter exactly as good as the ACH, or did I miss a nerf to it? Also RVN-2x+3L.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 13 August 2015 - 07:15 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Kristian Radoulov, on 11 August 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

So much underhive crying in this post.

Not really. Many high elo players are posting here. You not understanding what's going on is another issue altogether though.

Centurion72, on 11 August 2015 - 06:34 AM, said:

Can't really see the problem.

Even if the AC is better than any other IS light (and i really doubt it it) then what?
You cry about what?
Balance?
Clanners have lived up until now without a single light mech that was EVEN vaguely comparable to any IS light.
Learn to live with it as they have.
Next IS pack will bring a new light better than the AC.

When thousands of us (both IS, and clan) cried about the Firestarter, or the old TDR-9S that shot PPCs like a machinegun. You didn't see a problem with broken mechs annihilating everything else? If you can't understand something as simple as that, I don't know what to tell you.

Also, did I miss something? Since when did the Wolfhound become better than the ACH? It will never bring more lasers, it can't have JJs, and it doesn't have ECM. How is that better than the ACH? Oh, and did I mention that it can't mount anything other than lasers?

Oh, and you not knowing how to use the Kitfox right is not the mech's fault.

Celtic Warrior, on 12 August 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

7 pages of crying... really! Learn now to shoot lights, we had too.

*sigh* whatever you had to "learn" we had to learn before you, because as IS pilots, we've been dealing with IS mechs, far far longer than you have. Since IS mechs have been here since day 1 of the game. Including speedy lights (even speedier back in the early days).

While many do need to learn how to aim better. Especially at light legs. You have a 30 ton light, with more armor and health than any 35 tonner on the IS side, and packing more firepower than any of them, to boot. Plus JJs, C-XL, and ECM. I'm a light mech pilot who owns lights, both IS, and clan, including the Firestarter, and the Cheetah.

I love both, but I also recognize that they are borked. The ACH makes it even worse. It's taken every problem with the FS9, and exacerbated them. So all of that, plus wonky HSR, especially on lights, adds up to a huge problem.

k05h3lk1n, on 13 August 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

Quirked Firestarter exactly as good as the ACH, or did I miss a nerf to it? Also RVN-2x+3L.

It's not even close to being as good as the ACH. Unless at some point the FS9 got more armor, and health, plus ECM, and C-XLs.



Look guys. There's a reason we've been saying "when the ACH comes, then it's gg lights" since around the time wave 1 popped up. Most of us with some shred of foresight knew this was coming.

Clan puppies need to stop browning their pants thinking their new "I win" button is gonna get taken away, and recognize that sme aspects of the ACH are bordering on BS territory. While IS mobs need to also recognize that the mech is good, better aim is needed, and yes, the ACH has some BS going on right now.

TL;DR: Both sides need to bite the pillow, and wait it out, until a balance adjustment to the ACH comes, and you know it will be coming soon™.

[Celtic Warrior]

IraqiWalker, on 13 August 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

*sigh* whatever you had to "learn" we had to learn before you, because as IS pilots, we've been dealing with IS mechs, far far longer than you have. Since IS mechs have been here since day 1 of the game. Including speedy lights (even speedier back in the early days).

I have more IS mechs then clan mechs so not sure where you're going with this?

[IraqiWalker]

Celtic Warrior, on 14 August 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

I have more IS mechs then clan mechs so not sure where you're going with this?

Your exact post:

Celtic Warrior, on 12 August 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

7 pages of crying... really! Learn now to shoot lights, we had too.

You're saying that you had to learn to shoot lights, as if we didn't, when in fact, since the game started IS lights have been there. Fast, IS lights, even faster than now, and we learned to shoot those.

For some reason a lot of clan pilots seem to think that IS pilots haven't learned to shoot fast lights, because on some magical realm we only deal with slower clan lights. When that's not even close to reality.

If the "we" you put in that post is meant to include all players, and not just clan players, then I misunderstood you.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 14 August 2015 - 05:55 PM.

[Celtic Warrior]

I was saying we as clan pilots with new mechs had to learn how to shoot lights because they were new new mechs. Different load out and such, we figured that out. Now that us clanners have a legit light its time IS figure out the same.

If you can't figure that out then so be it.

[IraqiWalker]

Celtic Warrior, on 14 August 2015 - 07:27 PM, said:

I was saying we as clan pilots with new mechs had to learn how to shoot lights because they were new new mechs. Different load out and such, we figured that out. Now that us clanners have a legit light its time IS figure out the same.

If you can't figure that out then so be it.

We had already figured that out, before wave 1 even came out. On account of dealing with fast lights for the whole duration of the game's lifespan. So that L2P argument really doesn't work. Especially since most IS lights go faster than the cheetah, and we know how to deal with them.

The main problem with the cheetah is it's durability. Compounded by hit reg issues, and C-XL. It's not the speed. I have no problem hitting ACHs in the leg, my problem is that they soak a lot more damage than a 30 ton light mech ought to. The FS9 is 35 tons, and it still feels easier to kill than the ACH.

EDIT: Here's simple numbers:

The FS9 has at max 48 health on it's legs.

The ACH starts with 42 base health + 10 from quirks = 52 health on each leg. The CDA a 40 ton mech has 60 on it's legs. Do you see the problem here?

Edited by IraqiWalker, 14 August 2015 - 07:37 PM.

[Celtic Warrior]

Let me reiterate this, quit your crying, nuff said!

[IraqiWalker]

Celtic Warrior, on 15 August 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

Let me reiterate this, quit your crying, nuff said!

Uhhh. No.

Also, it's not crying, when it's the truth.

When will people learn that broken mechs are not good for the game. Doesn't matter if they are IS or Clan.

BROKEN = BAD