86 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

You want matchmaking?

Make it unit controlled territories. (And you can give the pugs territories like they have no, where the pug army votes where they go.)

Don't want to fight 228 or -MS-? Don't attack their territory, and/or negotiate with them if they want yours. (Or reland somewhere if they knock you off the map.

Bam, a working, user controlled "matchmaker."

[Triordinant]

oldradagast, on 06 August 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

The only way to "fix" it at this point is to scrap it entirely and try something else - something that gives people a reason to play, regardless of skill level.

In all honesty, from both a game design and business standpoint this might be the only real solution. A game mode specifically designed for 10% or less of an already small playerbase was never going to be sustainable.

[MischiefSC]

CW isn't designed for comp units. It's designed to be challenging - even hard. It's designed to be faction vs faction warfare - as in your whole faction, which indicates you need to be a team member of your faction not a solo rambo.

The fundamental issue is that for a huge swath of the players that's 'too hard'. They don't want to have to learn to play as a team or group up or, well, fight a faction vs faction war. They want spoon-fed fights they have a 50/50 at winning even if they only half try.

The game doesn't need a matchmaker for CW. Just that a big chunk of the players want a nanny to hold their hands and tell them that they are great even when they suck.

The bulk of teams in CW right now really aren't the top tier comp players. It's just average players putting in a decent effort. That puts them out of scope of another huge swath of players, who have no interest in even putting in a minimum effort. Don't bring terrible mechs (not even top meta. Not terrible would be okay) and putting in an effort to work with their team, be that by grouping up ahead of time or at least trying to work with/coordinate with their team in the match.

Instead you've got people who want CW to play like pug queue for the Underhive.

No. Screw that. Give holding worlds some purpose, give some reason to win and accept that people who actually care about winning and are willing to put in even a mediocre effort are going to be the ones who do well there.

What CW does *not* need is a nanny system. I'm all for the MM in pug/group queues. Those are just throw away matches. You log in, drop, fight, win/lose, move on. They are irrelevant. CW is supposed to be more than that. If you're not up for more than that, fine. Don't play CW. Same way Solaris is going to be way more competitive than most people will want. It's focused at a specific experience though - Community (faction vs faction) Warfare. That needs to stay.

[Carl Vickers]

While we all have good and not so good ideas for CW I would really like to hear from PGI about their plans as we never hear anything, spend time speculating which is going to be wasted as they will do what they want in the end at any rate.

Hey PGI, are you listening, please give us something, anything to let us know what is going on!!!

[Vlad Ward]

"Oh man, I'm losing matches in this video game I'm not very good at. Clearly this is a major design flaw and the developers should just scrap this game mode entirely."

Edited by Vlad Ward, 06 August 2015 - 08:40 PM.

[Soulstrom]

From what it looks like CW populations are low. That may have a lot to do with the event, but our unit hasn't really played CW that much and I personally have only played 2 CW matches in the past 2 weeks. It just isn't worth 300,000+ c-bills per 30 min when I can earn 500,000+ per 30 min in public.

[R Razor]

Vlad Ward, on 06 August 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

"Oh man, I'm losing matches in this video game I'm not very good at. Clearly this is a major design flaw and the developers should just scrap this game mode entirely."

You're a genius, you figured out why CW has such a low population, it's obviously because nobody but you and a select few are good at the game...........you should get a gold star and sign up for Mensa, you're awesome!!!!

[Vlad Ward]

R Razor, on 09 August 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

You're a genius, you figured out why CW has such a low population, it's obviously because nobody but you and a select few are good at the game...........you should get a gold star and sign up for Mensa, you're awesome!!!!

I mean, I am a genius. But it doesn't take one to see why there's such a huge skill gap in MWO.

This isn't Counter-Strike. Not everyone spawns with an M4 (or whatever a decent CS weapon is, idfk) and has the same health, movement speed, and firing angle.

This is Mechwarrior. The best player on the planet is worthless in a match if they bring an LRM Commando or some equally garbage Mech. And since this particular FPS is wearing the skin of a 1980's tabletop game, you have a huge swath of the population who will insist on driving whatever garbage Mech they liked in a book or campaign with friends 20 years ago no matter how bad it is in this game.

So, yes, only a select few players are "good" at this game because it requires the mind-bogglingly rare confluence of a player who is good barely passable at FPS also being willing to use Mechs that are good remotely competent at shooting other Mechs in an online FPS.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 09 August 2015 - 02:21 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Up the cbills and xp in CW and go from there. Make it 1.5x what you could earn in an average pug game and see what happens. Easiest fix.

[R Razor]

Vlad Ward, on 09 August 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

I mean, I am a genius. But it doesn't take one to see why there's such a huge skill gap in MWO.

This isn't Counter-Strike. Not everyone spawns with an M4 (or whatever a decent CS weapon is, idfk) and has the same health, movement speed, and firing angle.

This is Mechwarrior. The best player on the planet is worthless in a match if they bring an LRM Commando or some equally garbage Mech. And since this particular FPS is wearing the skin of a 1980's tabletop game, you have a huge swath of the population who will insist on driving whatever garbage Mech they liked in a book or campaign with friends 20 years ago no matter how bad it is in this game.

So, yes, only a select few players are "good" at this game because it requires the mind-bogglingly rare confluence of a player who is good barely passable at FPS also being willing to use Mechs that are good remotely competent at shooting other Mechs in an online FPS.

Translation:

You must run META if you want to succeed in this game, if you attempt to run anything other than META because you like it then you are automatically a bad player.


Again, MENSA.

[Vlad Ward]

R Razor, on 11 August 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

Translation:

You must run META if you want to succeed in this game, if you attempt to run anything other than META because you like it then you are automatically a bad player.


Again, MENSA.

Can I use you as a professional reference in my MENSA application? You seem to think I'm highly qualified for membership in their organization.

As a potential MENSA recruit, I feel obligated to point out that there is a difference between "Top tier best mech on planet" and "Not LRM Commando".

Really, any Mech in the 60th or 70th percentile is more than passable in CW. It just so happens that people tend to like things in the 10th and 20th percentiles. And so they lose - and will continue to lose, and there's nothing anyone else can do about it.

[oldradagast]

MischiefSC, on 06 August 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

CW isn't designed for comp units. It's designed to be challenging - even hard. It's designed to be faction vs faction warfare - as in your whole faction, which indicates you need to be a team member of your faction not a solo rambo.

The fundamental issue is that for a huge swath of the players that's 'too hard'. They don't want to have to learn to play as a team or group up or, well, fight a faction vs faction war. They want spoon-fed fights they have a 50/50 at winning even if they only half try.

Bull. It's not "too hard" - it's that its pointless. Sure, with effort, I could buy an entire stable full of meta-mechs, fully level them, maybe get in with one of the "good teams" and practice my rear off... but for what? So I then turn around and have the "honor" of pounding noobs, casuals, and PUGS into the dirt thanks to the idiotic lack of match-making in this format?

It's a game, not a job, not a life, and not a "real war." And getting trashed by people with far more time, money, connections, and possibly skill than you have is boring and pointless. Even if you can compete with them, what's the point? Do you win anything valuable? Does anyone outside CW care about the size of one's epeen in that format? Heck, you don't even win the "right" to only challenge "worthy opponents" - you'll instead spend plenty of time clubbing seals. So, again - what's the point to a format that requires that much money, time, and effort - AND good random luck from the laughably "matchmaker?"

People left CW because it's a boring, repetitive, unbalanced joke of a format - even if they could compete in it, doing so is simply not worth the time, effort, or money given its current state.

Edited by oldradagast, 11 August 2015 - 03:53 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

R Razor, on 11 August 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

Translation:

You must run META if you want to succeed in this game, if you attempt to run anything other than META because you like it then you are automatically a bad player.


Again, MENSA.

Yeah you missed the point hard. Running non-garbage mechs doesn't mean meta. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being a garbage mech and 10 being the ultimate meta tryhard build, there are mechs that occupy slots from 2-9 as well. If you focus on the upper half (6-9 ish) you can have good mechs that aren't actually meta.

[R Razor]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 August 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

Yeah you missed the point hard. Running non-garbage mechs doesn't mean meta. On a scale of 1-10, with 1 being a garbage mech and 10 being the ultimate meta tryhard build, there are mechs that occupy slots from 2-9 as well. If you focus on the upper half (6-9 ish) you can have good mechs that aren't actually meta.

So since neither of you seem to have gotten the point..........please explain why there are other mechs in the game if one must be limited to a certain "build type" in order to be considered "good" at this game?

It's exactly the attitude displayed by your buddy in which he insinuated that you can't be a good player if you choose to play any build other than what is considered "good" by the majority.

It's nonsense........and I realize that PGI encourages these thoughts by virtue of game design..........doesn't make it right though. Calling another player a bad player because he or she chooses not to play "good" mechs smacks of elitism and arrogance.

[Richter Kerensky]

This community's continued insistence to refuse to use mechs that are any good at all and intense hatred for players that have, at some level, actually figured out how the game works, is completely baffling.

[R Razor]

Vlad Ward, on 11 August 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

Can I use you as a professional reference in my MENSA application? You seem to think I'm highly qualified for membership in their organization.

As a potential MENSA recruit, I feel obligated to point out that there is a difference between "Top tier best mech on planet" and "Not LRM Commando".

Really, any Mech in the 60th or 70th percentile is more than passable in CW. It just so happens that people tend to like things in the 10th and 20th percentiles. And so they lose - and will continue to lose, and there's nothing anyone else can do about it.

Sarcasm buddy, while you may in fact be intelligent (I wouldn't know as I don't know you personally), what you portrayed in your earlier posts as well as your follow on posts leads me to question that.

It shouldn't matter what mech a player chooses to play, all should be equally viable in some form or another........as soon as a game devolves (or fails to evolve past) to the point where one must only use certain weapons on certain chassis in order to have a chance then that game is doomed to failure.

Richter Kerensky, on 11 August 2015 - 04:45 PM, said:

This community's continued insistence to refuse to use mechs that are any good at all and intense hatred for players that have, at some level, actually figured out how the game works, is completely baffling.

Some members blind acceptance that, despite having dozens upon dozens of mechs to choose from, one must be pigeonholed into running only a select number of those mechs, and the intense arrogance that leads them to believe that they are somehow "better" than other players is completely baffling.

[Gas Guzzler]

R Razor, on 11 August 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

So since neither of you seem to have gotten the point..........please explain why there are other mechs in the game if one must be limited to a certain "build type" in order to be considered "good" at this game?

It's exactly the attitude displayed by your buddy in which he insinuated that you can't be a good player if you choose to play any build other than what is considered "good" by the majority.

It's nonsense........and I realize that PGI encourages these thoughts by virtue of game design..........doesn't make it right though. Calling another player a bad player because he or she chooses not to play "good" mechs smacks of elitism and arrogance.

I wouldn't say the player is bad from a skill perspective (unless he thinks his build is good when it isn't), its just that its not a huge help to the team if you have a subpar mech.

There is actually a wide variety of mechs, most of them actually, that can be built decently.

[R Razor]

Gas Guzzler, on 11 August 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

I wouldn't say the player is bad from a skill perspective (unless he thinks his build is good when it isn't), its just that its not a huge help to the team if you have a subpar mech.

There is actually a wide variety of mechs, most of them actually, that can be built decently.

But again, that isn't what was posted or insinuated above......and I readily admit that there are some mechs that just are not competitive in this game, that is the fault of PGI and their inability to implement role warfare and balance (which has improved but still needs work).

Arrogant people attacking and insulting other players based on their choice of mech irritates me.

[Richter Kerensky]

It's not even that hard to build good mechs, and there are a lot of valid/worthwhile chasses, but there's a faction on this forum that just will not give up on LRMs and refuse to accept that they're a bad weapon system, and there are equally clueless people that slap AC/2s on their mechs, or think machine guns are a good idea.

Ideally all of these things would serve some kind of purpose, but they're all complete garbage in the game's current state, so telling people to avoid them is sound advice, not arrogance. People ain't listen and then they complain when they lose because someone took the time to figure out what actually works in this game. It's completely absurd.

[Vlad Ward]

>>Plays game where people fight in highly customizable robots

>>Complains when some people's highly customized robots are better at killing things than other people's highly customized robots

I don't think you're going to be happy here.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 11 August 2015 - 05:05 PM.