1017 replies to this topic

[Armando]

PGI lied to me...

I was told there was going to be community warfare, and it doesn't exist. Not when the game was released, not last week, not today, has NEVER happened.

What PGI laughably CALLS Community Warfare is really just a solo que where players get to drop in 4 mechs. I was TOLD that I was going to get a COMMUNITY of players, working together as a faction / mercenary units to fight against. I call BULLSH!T !!!!!

All I see, match after match, after match, after match is solo players in trials who can't break 100 damage using 4 mechs.

This brings be to the Topic Title:

SOLO PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO QUE FOR COMMUNITY WARFARE.

To say "A Solo Player participated in Community Warfare" is a text book example of an oxymoronic statement.

FACT: Solo players have a que to fight against other solo players already.
FACT: There is no game mode for only 12 man groups. (What COMMUNITY warfare should have been).

As long as a solo player can que for a 'community warfare' drop, there is no community warfare. PGI farked over every community of players (every unit in the game) by allowing solo players the OPTION to que for community warfare. PGI farked over every solo player in game by giving them a chance to que without a unit (If can do it, you should be able to...not solo players fault for attacking/defending solo....it should have never been an option).

TL:DR - Community Warfare should not be an option for solo players, No unit, no que option. Give solo players are REASON to join a 'community' (aka: Faction and or Unit) and play as a member of a GROUP. Fix community warfare....solo players have their que, 2-11 players have their ques, 12 mans should have our community warfare.

Thank you for your time.

- Armando

Edited by Armando, 10 August 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[xe N on]

I'm a solo player and I'm fine with this. I don't play CW. I guess, 90% of all solo players avoid CW, because it is a PUG stomp and farming mode for 12 mans.

My proposal: make it 12 man only. Wait for 2 month and analyze the player population.

Then, if only a minority of players in total play CW, either shut it down or make each CW drop cost 100 MC or so per player.

Developing a entire new mode that is only used by a minority of the player base is not cost effective and, in addition, delays the development of other games aspects.

Edited by xe N on, 09 August 2015 - 12:15 AM.

[Armando]

xe N on, on 09 August 2015 - 12:13 AM, said:

I'm a solo player and I'm fine with this. I don't play CW. I guess, 90% of all solo players avoid CW.

My proposal: make it 12 man only. Wait for 2 month and analyze the player population.

Then, if only a minority of players in total play CW, either shut it down or make each CW drop cost 100 MC or so per player.

Developing a entire new mode that is only used by a minority of the player base is not cost effective and, in addition, delays the development of other games aspects.

There is no reason for a solo player to join a unit....no reason to be a part of a community of ANY kind. For that reason Community Warfare should be for communities of players, PERIOD.

Community Warfare should be an 'end game', not something that a player can jump into day 1. It should be clear that community warfare is just that....a community of players fighting against a community of players (No solo option).

FIX COMMUNITY WARFARE:

1) No trial mechs allowed...don't own 4 IS or 4 Clan mechs....farm the solo / pug group que until you do.
2) No solo players ... no unit, no que.
3) Ideally 12 vs 12 only, acceptable alternative would be groups of "hard 4", 'hard 8', or 'hard 12' (by 'hard' I mean no more / no less than 4 / 8 / 12) only.

Community Warfare is not 'fun' for a solo player, nothing PGI can ever do will make Community Warfare fun for a solo player, that is why it is called COMMUNITY Warfare not Solo Warfare.

Edited by Armando, 09 August 2015 - 12:27 AM.

[xe N on]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

There is no reason for a solo player to join a unit....no reason to be a part of a community of ANY kind. For that reason Community Warfare should be for communities of players, PERIOD.

Being a member of a unit, clan, guild or what ever you want to call it is not equal to being a part of the community. One of the best examples of a working community warfare with realm vs. realm warfare is the MMORG DAoC, which defined the standards of all PvP MMOs.

In fact, you don't need to be in a unit, you just need to have the tools that allow people to socialize and interact with each other.

MWO has made good steps into this direction (faction chat, LFG system) but it still lacks the standards of a game released in 2001.

I agree with you, that trial mechs shouldn't be allowed in CW.

My proposal would be:

1) Reduce factions to Clans and Inner Sphere.
There will be only one border: Inner Sphere and Clans. Sub-faction can be chosen but play no role beyond identity. You can attack a planet with a mixed faction group of IS or Clan. This step instantly solve the problems of factions that have no direct border to the clans. This would be a simplification of the Battletech lore, but a necessary one.
Units can still choose to consist of one faction, but any unit is by standard a SLDF (Star league defense force) unit that may consist of multiple factions.


2) Introduction of an advanced community com system
- World chat for each side (Clan, IS)
- Faction chat, as already available
- Private Chat/VoIP channels
- LFG Chat
- LFG system where you can show your drop deck
- Player identities: like in EVE, player can create avatars. Clicking on a player in chat will reveal informations, like avatar, faction, ELO rating and so on.

3) Introducing beginner units.
- Each beginner choose to start in a faction (Merc, IS, Clans)
- You only can become a lone wolf if you leave the beginner unit.
- Each faction has it's one standard unit (regular forces, militia) that a new player automatically joins.

4) Better new player experience
- Award new players on certain milestones will some mechs

5) advanced unit interaction
- Introduction of alliances, sub-units, etc.

Edited by xe N on, 09 August 2015 - 01:09 AM.

[Armando]

xe N on, on 09 August 2015 - 12:31 AM, said:

Being a member of a unit, clan, guild or what ever you want to call it is not equal to being a part of the community. One of the finest examples of a working community warfare with realm vs. realm warfare is the MMORG DAoC. You don't need to be in a unit, you just need to have the tools that allow people to socialize and interact with each other.

MWO has made good steps into this direction (faction chat, LFG system) but it still lacks the standards of a game released in 2001.

PGI allowing solo players to drop in CW is the same as Blizzard letting level 1 players enter level 60 raids instances. In short, they dropped the ball so HARD the earth is splitting in two by giving solo players an option to drop in CW ques.

[meteorol]

Have fun waiting for 3 hours getting into a game. CW doesn't have enough players even with solos. Without them, it would just kneel over and die.



Btw, we had a 12 man queue. You remember that? You remember how it couldn't be called a ghosttown because not even ghosts were there? It was dead. Just dead. Russ has stated that 1%, ONE PERCENT of the of the matches are with 12 mans.

You know how well CW would work with 1% of this already tiny playerbase? Hint: it wouldn't work at all.

Edited by meteorol, 11 August 2015 - 10:04 PM.

[xe N on]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 12:36 AM, said:

PGI allowing solo players to drop in CW is the same as Blizzard letting level 1 players enter level 60 raids instances. In short, they dropped the ball so HARD the earth is splitting in two by giving solo players an option to drop in CW ques.

Solo player don't necessary need to be beginner. I'm, a solo player and if I play public I see a lot of unit member that perform much lower then me.

My overall K/D ratio is 1.82 ... and I mostly play mediums.

I could easily join a unit, but since my time is limited and I really like to play when I want to, I don't see any purpose.

In addition:
Any beginner can invest some money, buy the best mechs and join a unit at the first day. He will still perform low. Because he won't have the experience and skill to mess with players that play since 3 years and can play each map blind.

You can only separate beginner from pros by using game time played and ELO.

PS: Apparently there seem to be some prejudice combined with arrogance of unit players against solo players. I really would like to see public ELO ranking ...

Edited by xe N on, 09 August 2015 - 01:07 AM.

[Armando]

xe N on, on 09 August 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

Solo player don't necessary need to be beginner. I'm, a solo player and if I play public I see a lot of unit member that perform much lower then me.

My overall K/D ratio is 1.82 ... and I mostly play mediums.

Please don't get it twisted...I know a number of 'TIER-1' players who only drop solo. I'm not trying to say that all solo players are bad....I know better than that. /wink

What I am saying is that community warfare should be 'end game' level of coordinated teamwork. Coordination requires both a leader and followers...there is neither with solo play because you are by definition ALONE.

Most drops I am a leader (call rally points, direct troop movement, call primary and secondary targets, etc)...some drops I follow (it is nice to get to focus on what I AM DOING, focus on getting damage/kills, and get a break from being responsible for what EVERYONE else is doing).

However, When I drop solo....DAMN THAT....I don't want to give orders, I don't want to follow orders, I want to play 'selfish' (I know I am a horrible human being). There should be a place for that....a place where there are no groups on my team, no groups on the other team, just me using 11 other players as a shield while I kill 12 other players. You know what....THAT PLACE ALREADY EXISTS....the solo que!!!!

Community Warfare is not the place for solo players. PGI allowing a player to drop in a CW match solo is the biggest mistake they have made to date (and that is something).

[Armando]

meteorol, on 09 August 2015 - 12:52 AM, said:

Have fun waiting for 3 hours getting into a game. CW have doesn't enough players even with solos. Without them, it would just kneel over and die.



Btw, we had a 12 man queue. You remember that? You remember how it couldn't be called a ghosttown because not even ghosts were there? It was dead. Just dead. Russ has stated that 1%, ONE PERCENT of the of the matches are with 12 mans.

You know how well CW would work with 1% of this already tiny playerbase? Hint: it wouldn't work at all.

Triple Experience and triple C-Bills per match if you drop in CW match...or better yet 1/3 Experience and 1/3 C-Bills for "Public" ques.

CW is end game...

...no trials
...MUST be in a unit.
...MUST be in a group of at least 4

People still not getting on the community warfare express...

...make planets meaningful.
...make being in a faction meaningful.
...make being in a unit meaningful.

No reason, not a single reason for a solo player to ever join 'the community'. Not the day they installed the game, not after three years of playing the game. GIVE people a REASON to join the community.

Edited by Armando, 09 August 2015 - 01:20 AM.

[meteorol]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

My solutions ends solo pugs getting bashed by 12 mans.

Yeah, it ends pugs getting bashed by 12 mans by ending CW alltogether. It would instantly kill CW.
1/3 the Cbills for public queue would not only kill CW, it would kill this game.

Seriously, those are some of the worst ideas i have seen over the last few months.

[KinLuu]

I fail to see, how your suggestions would improve CW.

But they might make it even worse, by increasing wait times.

[xe N on]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 01:08 AM, said:

What I am saying is that community warfare should be 'end game' level of coordinated teamwork. Coordination requires both a leader and followers...there is neither with solo play because you are by definition ALONE.

Most drops I am a leader (call rally points, direct troop movement, call primary and secondary targets, etc)...some drops I follow (it is nice to get to focus on what I AM DOING, focus on getting damage/kills, and get a break from being responsible for what EVERYONE else is doing).

However, When I drop solo....DAMN THAT....I don't want to give orders, I don't want to follow orders, I want to play 'selfish' (I know I am a horrible human being). There should be a place for that....a place where there are no groups on my team, no groups on the other team, just me using 11 other players as a shield while I kill 12 other players. You know what....THAT PLACE ALREADY EXISTS....the solo que!!!!

Community Warfare is not the place for solo players. PGI allowing a player to drop in a CW match solo is the biggest mistake they have made to date (and that is something).

But what have following orders and team-play to do with players without unit?

There are several types of units. Some are hard competitive setup groups that trains with the same smaqll player pool to optimize their performance (I have done in my younger days in a quake 3 and partly in DAoC).

And then there are units that simply provide a pool of players to make group forming easier. The latter is not much different from a PUG group, beside you know the people you are playing with maybe slightly better. In really large units, even the latter advantage is debatable.

In DAoC there were large PvP raids with up to 200 players with one raid leader, consisting of guild groups and PUGs. And it worked. You just need to form a raid group and you can be sure that most people that join this raid group will at least try to follow the orders by the raid leader. Otherwise they wouldn't join.

The problem in CW is not solo player dropping, but that there is no need to preform a group. And that, yeah, that could be changed to improve quality. But, in the current state, there is still to less option to socializing within the community.

Edited by xe N on, 09 August 2015 - 01:32 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

The worst suggestion of the day, you won a facepalm. Congratulations!

[Armando]

meteorol, on 09 August 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

Yeah, it ends pugs getting bashed by 12 mans by ending CW alltogether. It would instantly kill CW.
1/3 the Cbills for public queue would not only kill CW, it would kill this game.

Seriously, those are some of the worst ideas i have seen over the last few months.

o0Marduk0o, on 09 August 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

The worst suggestion of the day, you won a facepalm. Congratulations!

Letting solo players que for community warfare is THE worst idea ever, not even close.

Bad for the communities of players (228, NS, Kcom, EmP, Lords, MS, etc).
Bad for the solo players (who can't put out 100 damage total using 4 mechs).

What PGI has done is take the solo que....give players 3 more mechs per drop, FORCED solo players to fight 12 mans groups, oh and lets not forget.....No ELO in CW either. Solo players have a solo que RIGHT NOW, TODAY....no groups allowed, and it HAS ELO.

Community Warfare is NOT fun for solo players, nothing will change that, I will say it again...NOTHING WILL CHANGE THAT...that is a fact, a plain and simple FACT.

Require being part of a team before someone can que for CW....THEN INCENTIVEISE (I like to make up words.) TEAM PLAY TO MAKE BEING PART OF A TEAM MEANINGFUL.

Give people a reason to join a team and THEY WILL join a team.

Edited by Armando, 09 August 2015 - 01:45 AM.

[Moldur]

Good Idea. Every game that has 'competitive' matches between guilds, clans, whatever you want to call them, requires that players actually be in one.

[xe N on]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 01:33 AM, said:

Give people a reason to join a team and THEY WILL join a team.

I think no solo player will join any unit just to play CW. I wouldn't. I don't like CW at the current state. And if that would change, I simply would form a 1 player unit or join some unit which I don't interact with.

But preforming group for CW with a minimum group site of 12 ... so, also larger groups of 8-10 need to look for players. That could work. The players would fulfill the role of matchmaker.

Edited by xe N on, 09 August 2015 - 01:43 AM.

[Armando]

xe N on, on 09 August 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

I think no solo player will join any unit just to play CW. I wouldn't. I don't like CW at the current state. And if that would change, I simply would form a 1 player unit or join some unit which I don't interact with.

But preforming group for CW with a minimum group site of 12 ... so, also larger groups of 8-10 need to look for players. That could work. The players would fulfill the role of matchmaker.

Add 1 day of premium time for every 10 wins with a 12 man unit
Add an extra Million per drop for the first 10 wins with a 12 man unit.
Add to that c-bill bonuses for every faction member based on the number of planets a faction holds.
Add to that c-bill bonuses for every unit member based on the number of planets a unit holds.
Add to that reduction in cost of modules for every unit member based on the number of planets a unit holds.

You telling me you are still not going to join a unit and drop in 12 mans....I call BS if you say you are still solo dropping.

Give people a reason to join a unit, and fight as a unit and THEY WILL join a unit, and fight as a unit.

In short: Make people an offer so good they WON'T refuse it.

Edited by Armando, 09 August 2015 - 02:05 AM.

[H I A S]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 12:25 AM, said:

Community Warfare is not 'fun' for a solo player, nothing PGI can ever do will make Community Warfare fun for a solo player, that is why it is called COMMUNITY Warfare not Solo Warfare.

I have fun as Solo.

[Hangfire]

Looks like someone really enjoys 30min+ wait times

[Armando]

Hangfire, on 09 August 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

Looks like someone really enjoys 30min+ wait times

Get to face a team of 12 when the que pops....SO worth a 30+ minute wait. I would even wait 30+ as long as I KNOW I will face 3 teams of 4 players. I would say solo players are what is ruining community warfare, but I know better then that....it is PGI fault for not giving people a reason to play community warfare as a community of players (in a group).

HiasRGB, on 09 August 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

I have fun as Solo.

You know there is a que available to people who play solo, it doesn't allow groups in it, and it uses ELO. It is called the solo que! You shouldn't be forced to drop as a group, nor would I ask you to, because I <3 you like that.