1017 replies to this topic

[Vlad Ward]

Oh god, how did I miss that gem.

Yes. LRMs keep the "pain" going by making sure that the enemy team is better able to focus down the 5-6 players on your team who are actually fighting while the other half sits in the back and moans about holding locks.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

Triple Experience and triple C-Bills per match if you drop in CW match...or better yet 1/3 Experience and 1/3 C-Bills for "Public" ques.

CW is end game...

...no trials
...MUST be in a unit.
...MUST be in a group of at least 4

People still not getting on the community warfare express...

...make planets meaningful.
...make being in a faction meaningful.
...make being in a unit meaningful.

No reason, not a single reason for a solo player to ever join 'the community'. Not the day they installed the game, not after three years of playing the game. GIVE people a REASON to join the community.

Only a monster would suggest cutting the solo queue rewards to a third :V . New players will vanish if PGI pulled that crap, the grind is bad enough for them.

[Armando]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 August 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

Only a monster would suggest cutting the solo queue rewards to a third :V . New players will vanish if PGI pulled that crap, the grind is bad enough for them.

No lie, you are right.....cutting pug queue bonuses is not a good idea. People just starting NEED the c-bills so they can buy and load out viable mechs. I let myself get carried away in the moment...I am sorry.

That said, I would be very happy if PGI rewarded players for playing as a team instead of playing like a solo "RAMBO", which is the main point behind the post.

Edited by Armando, 15 August 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[Uncle Totty]

Armando, on 15 August 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

Trust me, I have given up hope that you can be helped. I am not responding to your post for you anymore, but for those who have read what you have said and can identify with it...

Direct-fire weapons work when you have LoS (Line of SIGHT), line of fire is not the same. If you don't have a LoS it is because you are not presenting to the enemy, and the only pain your LRMs are causing is to your teammates who are presenting when you are not.

The "I am part of a team" mindset....understands the importance of presenting as a team, they know how to present as a team, they know WHEN to present as a team. When the enemy sees them, they have to chose which one of the 12 players to fire at before they get wrecked.

Your mindset however is very much a 'solo player' mindset....I don't need to present to the enemy with my team, I will just let my teammates present by themselves (and get wrecked because the enemy has 12 players who are presenting) until they are dead...then I will get overrun by the enemy because I let all my teammates die and I am all alone.

1. "I see them." *fires* "HIT BOXES/WEAPON PLACEMENT/CROUDING TEAMMATES!!!!!" Yes. I DO know that seeing then, and having a clear shot to hit them are not the same thing. LRMs only need one of those, as LoS weapons need both.

2. I do push with the team. Thing is, when everything is moving, things tend to move between you and what you are trying to kill. Ever had matches where the enemy uses things to break your LoS? Such as rocks, buildings, or even your own teammates?

Edited by Nathan K, 15 August 2015 - 12:37 PM.

[Armando]

Nathan K, on 15 August 2015 - 12:32 PM, said:

1. "I see them." *fires* "HIT BOXES/WEAPON PLACEMENT/CROUDING TEAMMATES!!!!!" Yes. I DO know that seeing then, and having a clear shot to hit them are not the same thing. LRMs only need one of those, as LoS weapons need both.

2. I do push with the team. Thing is, when everything is moving, things tend to move between you and what you are trying to kill. Ever had matches where the enemy uses things to break your LoS? Such as rocks, buildings, or even your own teammates?

...and all they do is eat the pages.

You don't listen, and to be fair...why should you listen to me. Your 'member title' clearly shows you are a "MEMBER" of the MWO community while me....I am only a "COOKIE WARRIOR" who has mastered every chassis in the game, who owns... built out... and has played every variant of every chassis, who has participated in over 20K drops leading well over 15K of them. It is CLEAR you know more than I, and that I am incapable of making your experience playing MWO a more enjoyable one.

Edited by Armando, 15 August 2015 - 01:03 PM.

[Aresye]

Nathan K, on 15 August 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

Wow. This news actually makes me fell BETTER about what I use. Also shows that I have truly picked a fitting name for it: Defiant.

And I take pride in what I use, because typically it has to fill in the gaping hole you and other stubborn pilots bring to the team:

Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 15 August 2015 - 01:41 PM.

[Armando]

Aresye Kerensky, on 15 August 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

And I take pride in what I use, because typically it has to fill in the gaping hole you and other stubborn pilots bring to the team:

Clearly you have no idea what you are doing, and Nathan K would be foolish to listen to anything you (or I for that matter) have to say. You and I are 'elitist' and the time we have spent trying to enlighten others is a ploy to make their MWO experience a horrible one. (I am not very good a sarcasm....did I do it right?)

Edited by Armando, 15 August 2015 - 01:48 PM.

[ApolloKaras]

Armando, on 15 August 2015 - 01:43 PM, said:

Clearly you have no idea what you are doing, and Nathan K would be foolish to listen to anything you (or I for that matter) have to say. You and I are 'elitist' and the time we have spent trying to enlighten others is a ploy to make their MWO experience a horrible one.

Remember what I said about aspirations.

[Armando]

Saxie, on 15 August 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

Remember what I said about aspirations.

I know Saxie, I should listen to you more intently (no sarcasm).

[ApolloKaras]

Armando, on 15 August 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

I know Saxie, I should listen to you more intently (no sarcasm).

CHOO CHOO....? lol

<3


Some people will do what they want to do. I saw a Banshee with 2 Er large and an AC10. The next mech he brought was a cn9-a with 3 lrm 5's Ac10 1 medium laser, third mech was an lb10x on a Blackjack. After asking the guy to join our TeamSpeak, because obviously this is a newer guy, I was told to go die in a fire lol.

Edit spelling you think since typed in mech enough that auto correct would expect it.

Edited by Saxie, 15 August 2015 - 08:23 PM.

[Armando]

Saxie, on 15 August 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

CHOO CHOO....? lol

<3

Is that the pain train coming??? ANYTHING but the pain train.

[Sadist Cain]

I have nothing against units or communities. I used to manage a server & community for a game that expected tactics far in excess of that required of MWO, required far more communication and infinitely more complexity in organising between the other members in your squad and your team.

Coordination between armoured units, Close Air Support, transport, logistics, engineers, mechanised infantry and ground troops was the regular serving of the day, which would all go perfectly swimmingly with nothing but "solo players" of which we had thousands of new faces monthly.
All from a core of members that numbered no more than a couple of dozen or so folk.
Sure, things exploded occaisionally when they weren't supposed to or didn't as the case may be. However those folk weren't best served by being locked out of the games that were being played and nor were we.
Had to laugh my ass off at this innane elitist tripe; harping on about "community" rambling some such tripe about world of warcraft as if that's some kind of game that actually requires battlefield tactics rather than spreadsheets.
Not to forget whilst typing in ALL CAPS like it validates the point further.

The solution has never and will never be to sit atop an ivory tower bitching about Teh solos/pugz/n00bz/scrubz or whatever badge you wish adorn to others with disdain within a private handshake circlejerk of like minded arrogance.

The very idea you should block away the vast majority of your playerbase from participating in Community Warfare is not for community in any respect, nor is it a means to increase the quality of the matches.
It only serves as a sense of entitlement to those involved and to appease those who self righteously believe their community and those like it are the only elements that matter out of the much wider and more diverse community of players.

The new player experience is in the toilet, role warfare is awol, the battlegrid and command structure is a wooden shack held together with snot and the UI is a lame donkey with one eye that keeps slowly chugging along to its destination; occaisionally getting lost in a canyon on the way.
Whilst we now have voip we still lack a comm rose/command wheel which can be far more effective than voip swifter and capable of transcending any language, disability and noise barriers between the filthy steering wheel underhive.

These are just a few things that need far more attention and will reap far more benefit than creating Clubhouse Warfare.
Rather than close doors and encourage the concept that only those deemed worthy may enter, it is far better and far more lucrative to encourage 12 random people dropping together for 8 minutes to work as a cohesive unit.

To do this the game must provide well designed tools and the reward for working as a team, It needs to make you give a **** about your lance, for Rando Calrissian in the short few moments of their short lives you will know them.
Better players need to be able to coordinate and organise those not as proficient as themselves with ease and the lances need a reason to work alongside each other.
Not simply for the means to stroke ones K/D E-peen at the end of the game or tick off another win but to fight together and fight for each other.

That's what Community Warfare should be.


Given the right tools the hive will rise.

[Armando]

@ Sadist Cain

I am the OP, I and I want to tell you that a FAILED HORRIBLY with my OP and didn't really 'say what I meant' until much deeper into the thread. (I know you don't like it when I use all caps to stress a point, but I hope you can agree that my use of caps in this case is justified)

With that said let me ask you a three questions...

1) Do you agree or disagree that every match that anyone can queue for in MWO is 12 real life players against 12 real life players?

2) Do you agree or disagree that if a player thinks they are dropping solo, acts like they are dropping solo, tells themselves and anyone who will listen they are dropping solo, that they are a 'solo player'?

3) Do you agree or disagree that the option of dropping in trial mechs makes community warfare less enjoyable for the teammates and enemies of the the players that chooses to do so?

Edited by Armando, 15 August 2015 - 04:23 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Armando, on 15 August 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

@ Sadist Cain

I am the OP, I and I want to tell you that a FAILED HORRIBLY with my OP and didn't really 'say what I meant' until much deeper into the thread. (I know you don't like it when I use all caps to stress a point, but I hope you can agree that my use of caps in this case is justified)

With that said let me ask you a three questions...

1) Do you agree or disagree that every match that anyone can queue for in MWO is 12 real life players against 12 real life players?

2) Do you agree or disagree that if a player thinks they are dropping solo, acts like they are dropping solo, tells themselves and anyone who will listen they are dropping solo, that they are a 'solo player'?

3) Do you agree or disagree that the option of dropping in trial mechs makes community warfare less enjoyable for the teammates and enemies of the the players that chooses to do so?

Your problem is that you are trying to redefine a word the community already has a definition for.

It's why we use terms like "soloist" or "rambo" or "moron" instead of saying "solo player", because solo player just means a player dropping into a match without being in a premade group, be it impromptu, or a unit.

This is one case where it's better to use the community definitions, instead of trying to change them.

[Armando]

IraqiWalker, on 15 August 2015 - 04:59 PM, said:

Your problem is that you are trying to redefine a word the community already has a definition for.

It's why we use terms like "soloist" or "rambo" or "moron" instead of saying "solo player", because solo player just means a player dropping into a match without being in a premade group, be it impromptu, or a unit.

This is one case where it's better to use the community definitions, instead of trying to change them.

This is a case when the definition the community is using is not only very misleading, but in fact a lie. A lie that undermines a players ability to understand the truth that there is no "solo" drop, that no one is a 'solo' player (this lie is especially detrimental to 'new' players). People hear other saying they drop solo, and believe that dropping solo is a possibility, believe that they are solo players when the fact is we are always a part of a team even when we drop alone.

It is this misconception, this lie, we tell each other that keeps many people from understanding the truth....we are always part of a team, even when we drop without teammates. I don't blame the players for this misconception, PGI has done a piss poor job of making the reality of this game clear from the start.

Solo drops do not exist, they have never existed, it will be a very long time before a solo drop will be possible (if it is ever possible). We are always on a team, we need to start acting like it (that isn't on PGI...that is on the people who play this game).

Edited by Armando, 15 August 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[Necromantion]

Armando, on 15 August 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

Is that the pain train coming??? ANYTHING but the pain train.

This is where I say nothing for once due to the last time a train came up on another thread it went to K-Town so fast everybody lost connection to the internet LOLOL

[MaxFool]

MaxFool, on 15 August 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:

With that 1% statistic you keep repeating, I wonder when was the last time you played CW. Nowadays at least 30% of the attacking teams are 12-mans, and maybe around 50% of the defending teams are pure solos (=not grouped up).

MischiefSC, on 15 August 2015 - 11:03 AM, said:

Hey, let's not try and ruin a good anecdotal misconception and confirmation bias with actual data. The fact that there isn't enough 12mans to fill even 10% of matches shouldn't be trotted out to challenge a '50% of games' perception.

Admittedly if you've only played 2 matches in CW and one of them had a 12man (probably an 8 man that's misremembered but whatever) then in the incredibly skewed sample size in question, maybe I guess?

That data is simply old. That's why I said "I wonder when was the last time you played CW". You think really think CW demographics is the same as it was two months ago, if that data was fresh even then? You are not in touch with reality with that 1% 12-man crap.

I take screenshots of every drop I make. I just counted my CW drops from this week. 19 drops, I was defending each time (as Ghost Bear can't launch attacks these days). Counting biggest groups from attacker side, 9 times 12-man, 1x11, 1x10, 1x9, 2x8, 2x6, 2x5, 1x3. Just over 50% the attacker had 12-man, and 84% of times 8-man or bigger.

From defender side that same statistic was 1x6, 3x4, 4x3, 5x2, 6x1.

Even if CW would look hugely different from IS side (I of course have only my own current statistic from clans side, a month long contract just ended and this data was only from this week cause I wanted it fresh), and even if my sample was somehow totally unusual from clan side, it can't be that different from thruth that 1% 12-man crap would be somehow in the neighborhood of todays reality.

Btw, wins were only 10-9 on IS favor. This was not a rant about unfair matches, this was a rant about repeating old statistics everywhere that has nothing to do with reality anymore.

[Eldamar]

HiasRGB, on 09 August 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

I have fun as Solo.

First day I played after returning the beginning off this year after doing beta I was dropping solo into CW with just trials and had a great time, hell I even won most of the matches that night.

Why do I feel the OP was ROFL stomped by a pug group in CW and wants that to never happen again.

[Uncle Totty]

Armando, on 15 August 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

...and all they do is eat the pages.

You don't listen, and to be fair...why should you listen to me. Your 'member title' clearly shows you are a "MEMBER" of the MWO community while me....I am only a "COOKIE WARRIOR" who has mastered every chassis in the game, who owns... built out... and has played every variant of every chassis, who has participated in over 20K drops leading well over 15K of them. It is CLEAR you know more than I, and that I am incapable of making your experience playing MWO a more enjoyable one.

Aresye Kerensky, on 15 August 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

And I take pride in what I use, because typically it has to fill in the gaping hole you and other stubborn pilots bring to the team:

*gasp* Oh how could I be so blind. Here I was thinking games are played for something as petty as fun. Now I know that the whole point of playing games is to win, and to prove that only I matter.

Thanks guys, you have really opened up my eyes. (*lol* rhymes)

Edited by Nathan K, 15 August 2015 - 08:25 PM.

[Deathlike]

I think this has to be said, only because it's kinda confusing as it currently stands (it's more inflammatory though I understand the point).

The whole point of the post is more about people playing "solo" (more like a rambo - selfish play) than it is dropping solo (alone).

Once you properly define the terms properly, then better discussion could be had.

The title really reads as something else (it implies something you're not intending) so I'm just saying that you really need to revise it for more productive production.


In any case... I believe the community is more than willing to help the new player out... it's the player that refuses to want help or refuses to work together... these are damaging players that make CW or any sort of team play far less enjoyable. It's one thing if you're ignorant or not up to speed... it's another to be willfully ignorant and refusing to learn.

That is the difference between a good CW drop and a bad CW drop in most instances.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 August 2015 - 07:50 PM.