84 replies to this topic

[Strig]

Assault Mode is horrible again.

PGI was on to something with defenses and I get it that no one won by capping, but now all that happens is a rush to base capture in every game I have played.

Splitting the team to assault and defend means the defending lance(s) lose to a 12 man push and the assault-lance(s) still cap slower so even with a head start they lose. This mode is the least exciting, has the least combat (unless both sides charge down the middle ... haven't really seen this but guess it could happen), and has the least potential valid and/or interesting tactics (willing to be proved wrong).

Suggestions:
1. Put stationary defenses back in and let us use the drop-deck tech (or some variation) to have a chance of grinding the defenses down.

• This will increase combat
  
• This will likely still lead to wins by base capture, but not before multiple pushes/skirmishes
  
• This will let non-CW players experience drop-deck
  
• This will allow less skilled players to not be immediately out of the fight

2. Leave defenses out, but make the cap slow and don't increase it no matter how many mechs are in the ares ... now it is a battle of attrition with defending versus enemy mechs destroying you AND defending the cap as lights occasionally push in to try to get a cap win.

• This will increase combat
  
• This will likely still lead to wins by base capture, but not before multiple pushes/skirmishes
  
• This will allow skilled light/medium pilots to make a big difference in a non-straightforward combat role (like they can in Conquest, although with a bit more risk)

3. Anything else ... (please add your suggestions below)

[Nathan Foxbane]

I do not know what times or ELO range you play in but most of my Assault matches turn into Skirmish until someone gets creative and then it is refreshing regardless if my teams ability to respond or or lights ability to scout is lacking.

The one issue for Assault is the cap area itself. Two or three 'Mechs parked on it is fine, but if the deathball is there it becomes impossible to defend. The defenders need their a defense area larger than the cap area.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Scout out the enemy movements and interecept their main force to defend your fracking base. Then send the lights and fast mediums after any enemies that get through the lines.

Congratulations! You aren't getting base capped on a regular basis any more.

[InspectorG]

Assault is 'bad' because Pugs have no concept.

Pugs cry for turrets and it will return to what it was before turret removal: Skirmish in a smaller area with the occasional scrub farming turrets to level his mech.

No Thanks.

Maybe ill write an easy how-to guide for the rest of the underhivers.

[patataman]

Turrets? → people complain
No turrets? → people complain

Can we have the presence of turrets as a random factor? The truth is i miss turrets, the stationary defenses lead to a different ( a bit different ) way of playing the maps. Can we have both pls? And the complaining would be epic!!!! Muahahahaha!!

Actually assault without turrets gives us a good reason to field scout mechs. Locate the enemy and use that info to win.

[TercieI]

It can be painful in solo, it's very good in group. The version with turrets was a guaranteed stoppage. Awful.

Edited by Terciel1976, 09 August 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

patataman, on 09 August 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Turrets? → people complain
No turrets? → people complain

Can we have the presence of turrets as a random factor? The truth is i miss turrets, the stationary defenses lead to a different ( a bit different ) way of playing the maps. Can we have both pls? And the complaining would be epic!!!! Muahahahaha!!

Actually assault without turrets gives us a good reason to field scout mechs. Locate the enemy and use that info to win.

I kinda like the idea of random turrets...even more unpredictability in the game haha.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

My least favorite part is being in a game thats heavy and getting capped by the light fast game mismatch. You get halfway across and lose

Nathan Foxbane, on 09 August 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

I do not know what times or ELO range you play in but most of my Assault matches turn into Skirmish until someone gets creative and then it is refreshing regardless if my teams ability to respond or or lights ability to scout is lacking.

The one issue for Assault is the cap area itself. Two or three 'Mechs parked on it is fine, but if the deathball is there it becomes impossible to defend. The defenders need their a defense area larger than the cap area.

Then again, last time I was on caustic, this happened with their deathball being all their guys minus three. They lost to concentrated arty fire

[Kodyn]

Even though I was on this boat the other day, I've really concluded it's just the players, more than anything.

Get a match with smarter players, get to avoid the cap.

What we really need is a queue for super casual weekend warriors and new players, stuff them all in there, then everyone else can have slightly more serious matches with actual mech builds that don't contain LRM 5s etc, and follow actual tactics.

[Spheroid]

Let me fully flush out a rebuttal.


You claim assault mode is ruined and always results in "turbo cap". Incorrect. The 4/4/4/4 weight balance means under most situations a single light lance is capping if that. Where is your light lance? Why are they not responding. The glacially slow cap rate means you should have enough time to respond.

If the entire team somehow made it to your cap you have terrible team that was blind and didn't know what the hell it was doing.

Also capping is already heavily disincentivized through lack of earnings. 99% of the player base is motivated by the need for more money. Even a guy like me who has 120+ mechs. Matchscore is also a motivator for e-peen comparison. Capping again does not enable this.

Given that capping provides no gameplay stimulation and no money why do you think these behaviors will not extinguish over time?

I guess you are somehow the statistical anomaly that constantly drops with 4 year olds, autistics, or sociopaths. That behavior is not well received on the opposing team you know. Are people who cap immune from the profanity and team killing that will follow? How is that fun for the offending capper? Eventually they will leave the game or play in a normal fashion.

If you are dropping with noobs who do this it actually good for the game as it means the player base is not dying and MWO can continue development.

Finally removal of the turrets has been great. Less deathballing and more small unit combat are very welcome. The valley on caustic sees combat, as does the train trestle on canyon.

Seriously what maps are you getting capped out on? Its very hard to turbo cap on Crimson, HPG, Frozen city or River City. Maybe Forrest Colony which will be replaced soon or Terra Therma.

Edited by Spheroid, 09 August 2015 - 11:33 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

last game I was in we COULD and WOULD have won by cap but my team was 3 lights and me in a zeus and the rest of the idiots decided to go engage the rest of the enemy... a King Crab, two Dire wolves and a couple Awesomes.

yeah we lost

We had the base free and clear with the super slow guys walking towards us after turning around from our base when we got on theirs

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 August 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

Turrets back? Yes.

LRM turrets? No.

Turrets that lit you for the enemy team? No.

[Scyther]

I'm fine with turrets and without, don't really care either way.

If I got to pick my 'preference' though, I would go with Bagheera's suggestion: no LRM turrets, non-detecting, probably MLas only.

[Kassatsu]

Could just have your team split into two defense teams. One hides out a little bit ahead and off to the side, the other pushes up just enough to stop the enemy from standing in your square, then you get the entire enemy in a pincer attack.

Because I totally expect that level of planning from people in an F2P game, and I fully expect the rest of the team to follow it.

[Corrado]

InspectorG, on 09 August 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Assault is 'bad' because Pugs have no concept.

Pugs cry for turrets and it will return to what it was before turret removal: Skirmish in a smaller area with the occasional scrub farming turrets to level his mech.

No Thanks.

Maybe ill write an easy how-to guide for the rest of the underhivers.

if you get the base zerged, means your team is nascaring without anyone looking at the base. you got capped, you lose.

[InspectorG]

Underhive Guide to Assault with a whole whopping TWO tactics.

Enjoy.

[Screech]

Like that they have removed the turrets. Helps out medium gameplay giving it more options.

[MoonUnitBeta]

I hated turrets. HATED THEM. They were half implemented pieces of garbage that added NOTHING to Assault.
With their removal, Assault is finally a game mode that you can play outside of cuddling and coo'ing words of lust into each others ears in the center of the map. Back to it's old ways.

If turrets are coming back, then I definitely want to see them implement in a more comprehensive way.

• Turrets need different AI/Tracking
  
  • As in, it doesn't just pick one component and BLAST IT WITH 100% ACCURACY
• Add a turning speed cap to the turrets so fast mechs can out maneuver them.
  
• Different weapons
  
  • Quirk the turrets so that weapons are half range, and/or half damage.
• Remove their "Targeting"
  
  • While it may or may not make sense, remove their ability to target enemies and show their location on the minimap.
• Remove ability to see through ECM (I forget if this happened or not. But better put it in just to make sure!)

EDIT


One change I'd like to see, is that capped bases replenish their meter over time. Slowly - but they replenish.
This ensures less chances of one mech completely turning the tides of the game, because he can easily be flushed out, and after a little while his efforts would account for nothing except as a distraction.
This puts a greater importance on larger base rushes with a degree of commitment from a team.
It also is rewarding to the defending team if they successfully defend the base as it will regenerate over time, and lessen the chances of a possible snipe cap by a light who weasels behind the lines a little while later to finish off the base.

I think it's the only change Assault needs, and nullifies the need for turrets. I'm a strong believer that mechs should be the only defenses in Assault. When bases replenish it makes defending meaningful.
+1 for regenerative assault bases.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 09 August 2015 - 04:15 PM.

[Kjudoon]

I used to help and remind people it was their job to defend their base if they were anything faster than 90kph. I gave up. If they wont return just take the loss by leaving match early getting another mech and hope for a better group next time that will probably not include that collection of miscreants.

[Khobai]

Quote

As in, it doesn't just pick one component and BLAST IT WITH 100% ACCURACY

good players do this. why shouldnt turrets?

the laser turrets were 100% fine. the LRM turrets were the problem. they just needed to remove the LRM turrets.