71 replies to this topic

[Lugh]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 August 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

Might not be a bad suggestion, but I disagree about the comments. Blame MUST be assigned to salve the feelings of the thin skinned.


Disagree here Titan. We all know it is team oriented in CW. As PUGs we need to accept that well organized teams will/should stomp us if we don't use the tools we are all given. I PUG only in CW, I know what I'm getting into. I don't have contempt for the guys that play the game the way its meant to be be played. As A Team.

&#$&* the feelings of the thin skinned. They need to man/woman up and stop crying, hunker down and 'git it done.

[Yosharian]

What if I do top damage and cry about premades/clans?

[Poisoner]

Yosharian, on 12 August 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

What if I do top damage and cry about premades/clans?

This made me laugh.


To those that haven't contributed anything but insults, you just succeeded in making yourselves look foolish.

[nehebkau]

Poisoner, on 11 August 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

If you join a game and start crying about clans and premades, you'll do as well as these guys on my team did. Not sure what happened to the guys on the other team though... This screenshot is full of terribads.

Sigh, what I mean to say is, the other team doesn't have to try if you already beat yourself.

The fact is a group of 12, on external coms, who routinely play together, is going to face-bash a bunch of skittles easy. The fact is that a group of skittles are probably not part of a dedicated 12-man or even part of a "real" unit (they just made one up to get cool 4 letters next to their name). That also means that many of these "newbies" will just hate CW and not return leaving the same small group of people to endlessly circle-jerk around the galaxy switching loyalty to take and retake the same damn planets.

In case you miss it, that is BAD for the long-term viability of CW and the long-term viability of PGI. That means, if CW fails, given how much PGI has invested in it, PGI fails and you have to go back to playing counter strike.

What blows the crap out of my mind is that you don't seem to get that there is a skills gap which erodes the game. (Even PGI recognizes that fundamental which is why they have ELO in the regular queue)

Edited by nehebkau, 12 August 2015 - 06:59 AM.

[AlphaToaster]

nehebkau, on 12 August 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

The fact is a group of 12, on external coms, who routinely play together, is going to face-bash a bunch of skittles easy. The fact is that a group of skittles are probably not part of a dedicated 12-man or even part of a "real" unit (they just made one up to get cool 4 letters next to their name). That also means that many of these "newbies" will just hate CW and not return leaving the same small group of people to endlessly circle-jerk around the galaxy switching loyalty to take and retake the same damn planets.

In case you miss it, that is BAD for the long-term viability of CW and the long-term viability of PGI. That means, if CW fails, given how much PGI has invested in it, PGI fails and you have to go back to playing counter strike.

What blows the crap out of my mind is that you don't seem to get that there is a skills gap which erodes the game. (Even PGI recognizes that fundamental which is why they have ELO in the regular queue)

I would say it's not the skills gap which erodes the game at all. That skills gap is the plateau that pushes players to improve themselves. It's a high bar to achieve. Imagine how many players would never have pushed themselves to imrpove if in the solo queue they never faced SJR LORDs 228, or any of the old group queue bogeymen?

I saw those guys steamroll for the first time in the group and pug queues and thought to myself, "Wow this is going to be a steep learning curve." And I started to really pay attention to their builds, what they were doing to win etc.

I would say it's not the skill gap that's going to erode this game, it's crys from players who won't help themselves, trying to get PGI to code in their effort for them.

Tell me how PGI is going to make it better for players who will just quit when they see a team they think they can't beat. Especially when they won't even try. The only way to do that is put them with players that they never lose against, but that doesn't work all the time for everyone. As soon as they get a few losses the defeatist attitude kicks back in, they're back on the forums crying about the next thing. It never ends.

We need a new under-under-underhive-sub-level-high-ping-steeringwheel-no-monitor queue, because it's not fair for me to be in the queue with people that have monitors. There's NO WAY I can compete with players who can see. It's just stupid and it's going to erode this game if players that have monitors keep getting paired with players who don't. PGI FIX THIS.

Edited by AlphaToaster, 12 August 2015 - 07:35 AM.

[DarkMetalBlade]

If people do happen to be defeatist, that's a psychological issue, not a game issue. Just about the only way that it can be fixed is through psych counseling.

Even then, they might not seek it out, as being defeatist, they might think that they don't deserve this help.

[Nayonac]

As a member of CWDG, all i can say is join a unit if you want to play CW or get on the NGNGtv TS and make some friends. And we have lost to pugs some times But most of the time its a win due to 10 guys shooting at 3 pugs who wondered out alone. but the OP's point was that if they had done better they would of won... So get your pugs organised

[nehebkau]

Look, if you don't have a large enough player base -- which includes the "underhive" you are not going to have a game or a company. PGI needs to make a "training wheels" area for solo players where no groups larger than 3 are allowed to go.


This area shouldn't give loyalty points but give regular exp and cbills. This area should not restrict which mechs you get to put in your drop deck (since many of the "underhive" may not have 4 faction dedicated mechs). The goal is to give people a place where they feel comfortable with the concept and basic mechanics of CW before venturing out in the real CW area. It would also give small groups of organized people a way to engage with solo or non-aligned players in CW to scope out prospects.

And while you may say 'Gets some friends" or "Join a Unit" or "get on a TS server" the hard truth is that many players would not feel comfortable doing that. Just use the amount of talk on in-game VOIP as an example of how un-willing some(many) players are to go outside of their comfort zone specially when it comes to inter-personal communication.

IMHO, the past 20 years of increasing non-personal electronic communication have led to a generation of people who haven't a clue how to meet and talk to a stranger face to face.

Edited by nehebkau, 12 August 2015 - 10:50 AM.

[Zypher]

I am not sure what the point of the post is, the way I see the options are.

1. PUGs have terrible players.
2. Premades tend to win over PUGs.
3. My EPEEN is great because the terrible PUGs make my mediocre damage look amazing, I am GOD.

Nothing new here.

Edited by Zypher, 12 August 2015 - 11:41 AM.

[AlphaToaster]

PGI is working on tutorials.

Right now the best way to learn the CW maps is load them up in the training grounds and run around them in a light mech. How many new players are willing to do that? Just load up training grounds and run around until the maps make sense? I don't think these anti-social demotivational types have even put in that much effort.

After that the next best place is twitch streams of players dropping in CW and pay attention to where they are going and what builds they are using. Again these players have to acknowledge that what they are doing isn't working, and look to someone else for some guidance. I sense the reaction is rather to rail against PGI that what they are doing isn't working and PGI should fix it or add some change so their way works.

While one group understands this and plays CW, the other appears offended that there is perhaps a way for them to help themselves before looking to PGI for the answer.

[Lexx]

Be glad the pugs on your team even bothered to stay for the whole match.

I was playing with my group last night, only 8 of us. We weren't a full 12 man, and BP is far from being considered a feared team of competitive players. We're a casual group that let our members take whatever mech they want. In one of the matches last night, 4 players on the other side disconnected right at the start of the match and never came back. As soon as they saw a large group on the other side, they were gone. At least your teammates stayed and played. Sorry they weren't living up to your high standards, but it could have been worse.

Edit: this really should be in the CW subforum, if it even warrants a thread at all.

Edited by Lexx, 12 August 2015 - 11:59 AM.

[the hedgehog]

Play to win > practice improves skill > actually win.

Too many people just stop once things get hard and thus never improve past a point.

[B0oN]

Hi guys
Well,sorry for the loss, OP, but in CWDG we are aiming to win as often as is possible, irregardless of who the enemy is .

Most of the time when we encounter pug-groups in CW we try out new stuff of which we aren´t too sure if it works, so quality of those encounters vary wildly due to anarchy on comms (somtimes extremely hilarious), insecurity what to do when and all that funny stuff when trying out things .
Very different scenario when we go against organised teams : gamefaces on, chatter off, verified dropdecks/tactics come out (honestly said though : we´re lucky most of the time^^)

Also something that might help the odd solo-player joining one of our pre-made groups : we WILL ask pugs for certain mechs/loadouts/complete dropdecks, to stick with their lances and follow the team . In game we try to integrate pugs as well as possible/ as far as they even want to be integrated into our group and tell them what we try to do either via chat or VoiP .

Other than that I really only wonder why none of those newcomers are able to ask questions about anything in the game and then after achieving nothing because of not being prepared in any way they get all salty, immediately disconnect and run to the forums INSTEAD of staying in-game, watching others and MAYBE learn a thing or two .

So guys that are being bent over each and every time in CW, it´s about time you guys asked yourselves some questions like :
- Maybe is it my own fault for being horrible ?
-How can I learn what I need to know ?
-Where can I learn ?
-How useful is my build ?
-How hardcore must/should I "be/feel myself" to actually DO WELL in TRIAL mechs ? (I can tell you: very hardcore, because horrible trials are horrible)
-Why am I not using chat/VoiP ?


If anyone is interested in hopping by/having a drop/asking a few questions, dont be shy just hop on by :
www.cwdg.us
108.181.42.46 pw:deltacomms

See youse

[DAYLEET]

My own experience when it comes to complete solo pug in CW is that there is a lot of Champion mech and or "roleplayers" with CPLT-A1 and such.

Im never going to tell you not to bring a FS9-A with 8flamers in solo or even group queue but in CW you bring meta and nothing else.

[Burktross]

They probably didn't have enough ERLL and Gauss.
Tssk tssk.

[Greenjulius]

LordNothing, on 11 August 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

i consider any game where i dont break 1000dmg bad. i broke 2k a couple times. i do have games in the 500s though, usually involving a team full of noobs and a 12 man on the other side and me being less than my best. playing with people who know what they are doing is a real force multiplier.

At first my jaw dropped, thinking you meant 1000 damage in normal solo/group queue. Then I wised up and realized everyone was talking about CW. Duh!

You're right that 1000 should be about the minimum for someone to play at. If you can't break 1000 in CW, you shouldn't be playing CW, period. I mean, that's 4 chances to get 250 damage. Even newbies break 200 in most of their games. Players should aim for 1500-2500, with ~3000 matches being what vets should try for. My drop deck of a FS9-A, FS9-S, KGC-000 and SHD-2K easily guaranteed me 2000 damage if the team wasn't full of idiots, and often got me to 3000 damage, even on losses.

I stopped playing CW months ago because I'd repeatedly get stuck with groups that simply could not team play. They'd run out on their own, treating it like a game of CoD or Counterstrike, then get mercilessly slaughtered even by crappy defenders.

I'd maybe get 1-3 guys why would attempt to form a group with me and perform coordinated pushes, but that was rather rare.

[AlphaToaster]

Greenjulius, on 12 August 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

At first my jaw dropped, thinking you meant 1000 damage in normal solo/group queue. Then I wised up and realized everyone was talking about CW. Duh!

You're right that 1000 should be about the minimum for someone to play at. If you can't break 1000 in CW, you shouldn't be playing CW, period. I mean, that's 4 chances to get 250 damage. Even newbies break 200 in most of their games. Players should aim for 1500-2500, with ~3000 matches being what vets should try for. My drop deck of a FS9-A, FS9-S, KGC-000 and SHD-2K easily guaranteed me 2000 damage if the team wasn't full of idiots, and often got me to 3000 damage, even on losses.

I stopped playing CW months ago because I'd repeatedly get stuck with groups that simply could not team play. They'd run out on their own, treating it like a game of CoD or Counterstrike, then get mercilessly slaughtered even by crappy defenders.

I'd maybe get 1-3 guys why would attempt to form a group with me and perform coordinated pushes, but that was rather rare.

That was my experience as well during my solo time during CW Beta I. I have always measured CW performance based off a "minimum game" of 1k damage. That's taking it pretty easy really, only 250/mech. But when there is a 6+ premade on the other team, then that bar gets raised to 500/mech.

Depending on how I do in my first mech, I'll pick the rest of the deck. Maybe I hit 1000 damage on mech 1. So for mech 2 I have some leeway, maybe I bring my light mech and harass a bit and allow myself back to the fight faster. Don't always just take the next heaviest mech, sometimes that means I don't make it back in time and end up dying alone if I don't establish a new rally point for our next wave.

So much more going on than just nascar.

[Vlad Ward]

Oh, please. You think that game was bad?

The other day, against an enemy team using crabs and Urbanmechs:

Spoiler

Compared to this other game, against the exact same unit using their real combat Mechs, where we had actual goods on our team:

Spoiler

228 3-mans OP obviously.

CWDG is a decent unit, but premades aren't an auto-win button. If anything they're just a guarantee that there will be a certain number of slots on your team that aren't filled with LRM Commandos.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 August 2015 - 02:18 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 August 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

and it's not like Delta is exactly top tier Comp (unless something has changed in the last couple of months?) just stomp anyone. They're decent, but lol. WOW.

It's funny, usually, if I see Clan Wolf while PUGing in CW; it's one of the few times I feel confident we can win it. (and have the record to back it up... though I admit, I Haven't CW'd in 2 months.... because...boring. So if the Comp teams have shifted to Wolfy, well, that can change things.)

All of this.

[TWIAFU]

Xetelian, on 11 August 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

Clan War is for the premade groups.


A premade group has a much better chance of winning than one that is not premade.

Welcome to December 2014.