71 replies to this topic

[Commander A9]

You can win as a pug unit; there have been times where I have been able to organize pug teams in Community Warfare and win.

When you face a 12-man as a PUG unit, someone MUST step up to take charge and lead people. Otherwise, there is less of a chance of success.

So, step up, give orders, call targets. Because the unit 12-mans will not simply roll over to allow the opposition to win.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Dawnstealer, on 14 August 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Second this, and second what Bishop said earlier - dropping against Clan Wolf, I usually feel like I have a chance, even in a pure PUG. You do have a few really good players, but you also have a lot of bad ones. LOADED's screenshot above mirrors my own experience.

to be fair, my team was a 10 men premade (tho, i was rather hasty thrown together).

[Jalthibuster]

Well of course team work is essential but still the individual player skill counts in a lot as someone else mentioned before. If people can't shoot straight your team can be as much coordinated as you want to if you are not able to destroy the enemy it won't help you. And sometimes you meet people who are so new that they can't even move, like i did when i dropped solo last night in CW and it was pugs vs. pugs. There was one guy in his TBT who stopped 200m in front of me so he was even for lasers easy head shot prey. 2nd time he came in a BNC and wasn't able to turn to face me once while i was killing him from behind in my TBR. I felt really sorry for him and his game experience and i really hope PGI speeds up the delivery of useful tutorials for new players.

Found a screen shot some days old. My team consisted of a 5 man and a 3 man grp + me and 3 other pugs. 10 people were not even close to 1000 dmg while the other team only had 8 of those but a 2-man drop who carried even harder. So yes, team play helps but can not replace aiming skills.

Edited by Jalthibuster, 14 August 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[oldradagast]

Poisoner, on 11 August 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

You are missing the point. Only four people on my team broke 1k. Had another four decided to sack up we could of won that game.

[Redacted]

So... your "point" is that a "defeatist attitude" is what caused the random pile of PUG's to lose to a fully coordinated team? Really? Attitude?

I mean, it can't possibly have anything to do with the 12-man being better coordinated, equipped with better mechs, etc. No, no - it's all attitude, and if we just stop "whining" about the worthless trainwreck that is the CW matchmaker and just enjoying being buzzsawed by 12-mans, we'll all magically develop the same level of teamwork AND have fully leveled meta-mechs delivered to us by the Mech Fairy for being good little cannon fodder!

Right. Or, maybe a game mode that is so miserable that people simply throw away the matches because they are pointless is one with serious problems.

[Armando]

Yosharian, on 12 August 2015 - 05:03 AM, said:

What if I do top damage and cry about premades/clans?

If you are dropping as a solo player with a "I play this game solo' mindset, and not playing as a member of a team...Your salty tears taste sweet even if you are 'top damage', 'top kills', and 'top assists'.

Every person who understands that you are NEVER alone, you ALWAYS have teammates still will dismiss you as an idiot for trying to play a game designed to be 12 real life players against 12 real life players "SOLO".

Edited by Armando, 14 August 2015 - 06:07 PM.

[meteorol]

Leiska, on 14 August 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

This has been the theme of many of my CW forum posts, as well. Puggers usually don't lose because of lack of organization (though it doesn't help), they lose because their individual performance is abysmal. With a few strong players in the mix a pug can easily beat 12-man groups. I've taken part in it many times.

A fun observation now that I'm in CJF, though: IS pugs tend to be much more easily organized. If you make calls about rendezvous points and push paths, people will usuaully follow them as far as their timidness allows. The proud Jade Falcons, though? Nuh uh! They're strong, independent falcons who don't need no man and they're gonna go exactly where and when they please, preferrably alone. This has lead to some unfortunate losses of perfectly winnable games, however, the win rate is still significantly higher than I ever experienced on the IS side, mostly because the average pug performance is better and you don't have to carry quite as hard.

Yeah, terrible individual performance is a factor as importamt as coordination. If you are getting stomped 48:12, coordination wasn't the only factor for sure.
Few days ago, i dropped against a 12man. I was with 3 buddies and had 8 other pugs. We got beaten 48:26 iirc.
We coordinated a push on all 4 waves, but the guys were simply not able to deal any significant damage.

We had 4 guys below 300 damage in a match that lasted 23 minutes (one had 65 without being afk).
It may sounds harsh, but that already makes it a 8 players vs a 12man game. Our lance aside, not a single person got above 1k damage. And that was not a coordination problem. We pushed in coordinated, we called targets BUT the other players were simply unable to deal any significant damage. People can preach "this is a teamgame" all day long, but if the team members are not able to play atleast average on a indivdual basis you won't get anywhere.
If you swap 4 guys with below 300 damage for 4 guys with above 1k damage, all of a sudden this could have been a close match.

The skillgap due to the lack of matchmaking has a far bigger impact on CW than some people might think.

[Leiska]

Jalthibuster, on 14 August 2015 - 08:35 AM, said:

Found a screen shot some days old. My team consisted of a 5 man and a 3 man grp + me and 3 other pugs. 10 people were not even close to 1000 dmg while the other team only had 8 of those but a 2-man drop who carried even harder. So yes, team play helps but can not replace aiming skills.

3.5k damage with only two mechs lost. What kind of sorcery is this!?

Edited by Leiska, 15 August 2015 - 05:35 AM.

[Willard Phule]

You know, this thread has been derailed so many times already....noone has addressed the primary causes of matches like this.

We all know the Matchmaker doesn't work. Elo doesn't work. PGI won't admit it publicly, but they pretty much did when they decided to NOT use it in CW. What they DON'T say sometimes says more than what they do.

On top of not using a broken system of separating people by skill level, they also decided to push everyone to play CW regardless of their ability to actually contribute. Quantity over quality....pretty much they way they've always operated.

Most of these ROFLSTOMPs are because "PUG" teams tend to consist of people that haven't played the game enough to actually own enough mechs to make their own drop deck. What the experienced people are overlooking is that "new players," with no concept of the purpose behind CW, are viewing it as 4 solo matches rolled into one.

It doesn't matter how well they do or how fast they die. The XP they're earning can't be used. The mechs they're using don't get locked in. They can drop, die, drop again...wash, rinse, repeat...until they reach whatever goal it is they're shooting for. Until that point, you're going to have to carry 10 times your weight in people that can't even unzoom to move.

There needs to be some kind of hard-wired prerequisite....beyond the first 25 cadet matches...that prevents new players from just jumping into CW. CW should be an incentive...a goal for them to shoot for, so they can participate.

I know the old argument...without new players, CW will die. Guys, it's already on life support. This game doesn't have a problem getting new people to play, it's got a problem with getting people to stay. Flushing the pipes in CW, hoping 2% of them will hang around isn't the way to go about this. CW needs to have perks to shoot for. A reason to keep grinding cbills at below minimum wage until you can modify your own mechs, instead of having to use the rental cars.

Me, personally, when I see that 10 out of 12 mechs in my drop are trial mechs...and the team chat is full of "this is my first match" or "how to move forward?"...I just go for the money. Bonuses, bonuses, bonuses. We're going to lose anyway...someone will say "push," and only 2 guys will move. The rest will stand still in the open, zoom in, and prepare to show the world what an elite LRM master they are.

It is what it is. Until PGI can come up with some form of interactive tutorial besides the "this is how we get out of third person" one, everything will stay the same. It is what it is.

[Jalthibuster]

Leiska, on 15 August 2015 - 05:35 AM, said:

3.5k damage with only two mechs lost. What kind of sorcery is this!?

Probably energy based builds with no/not much ammo dependency combined with positioning and aiming skill on his side and running in like headless chicken or sitting ducks movement skills on the majority of my teams side.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Look to be good you need experience. I am not great my last game I got 1Kill,16KA,2 Spotting Assists, and a total of 408 damage. We won but we had someone calling the pushes, holds, etc. We won against another Clan by the way.

[LORD ORION]

Poisoner, on 11 August 2015 - 07:52 PM, said:

If you join a game and start crying about clans and premades, you'll do as well as these guys on my team did. Not sure what happened to the guys on the other team though... This screenshot is full of terribads.

Sigh, what I mean to say is, the other team doesn't have to try if you already beat yourself.

P.S. Sorry about the resolution, I play at 2560x1080

To be fair, the 77th are CWDG's good CW group. If you play with terrible builds (like trials) or stand in the open (like a pug), doing any sort of damage is a mircale before you get turned into a flaming wreck.

[sycocys]

Pre-mades are only scary until you learn how to communicate with your team. Then the field starts to even out quite a lot, unless 2 lances are missile support and snipers...