241 replies to this topic

[Nik Reaper]

So just to be clear, there are people here who can some how justify the huge amount of armor quirks this mech has?
OP, not OP, if it's just about the armor quirks, more so the leg one , you really think it needs locust level leg structure buffs to keep being "ok" ?

[Lugh]

Dimento Graven, on 13 August 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

"sigh" indeed...
Great, you're still doing more damage per alpha than I am because clans can typically take more weaponry to the battle...
Big whoop. Without an actual heat affects table, and the clan ability to add more double heat sinks, that is a nearly non-existent problem.
Yeah, pull your head from your butt. Many of those 89kph builds the IS has options for either require us to load an XL engine, granting you the ability to kill us off with one lost torso, OR, sacrificing firepower to load a much heavier STANDARD engine just so that we can survive that side torso loss. We don't get the XL+firepower+survivability option that clanners get with all their 'mechs.
Yeah, IF the enemy is willing to cooperate with me and let me get to them undercover, sure, no problem, and in the public queue more often than not, stupid play on the part of clan pilots DOES allow that option, however, in CW... Not so much...
Yeah, ignoring lasers the IS has a very SLIGHT advantage on SOME of the ballistics, on other ballistics the DPS is the same, but of course the DPT is a whole other story, which again goes to allowing clan 'mechs higher alphas.

And your idiotic 'burn time' point is stupid, at most .25 seconds... BIG f'ing whoop, you're doing MORE damage at a LONGER range with a LIGHTER weapon that takes up LESS slots than the IS equivalent. The cool down times are the same as far as I've checked, so I don't know how a clanner isn't able to fire back when he wants. It's at most a .25 second duration in firing time difference...

Of course again, with each ton and every two slots you save with your smaller, lighter weapons you're able to load up another two slot, 1 ton double heat sink, further ameliorating the supposed 'heat issue'.

On the LRMS, of course if you consider the IS advantage in LRMs as a true balance, haha, I should call you all sorts of names, considering that the latest batch of clan 'mechs seems to have tripled the number of ECM carrying clans out on the battlefield. OH, and let's not forget that once the faster clan 'mechs close in under 180 meters, the IS LRM DPS is ZERO...

Yeah OH SO limited, if you have a chassis where ONE variant carries an ECM, EVERY variant of that chassis has the potential to carry ECM. It's SUCH a hardship choosing between which laser vomit, or ballistic vomit, or missile boat variant you want to carry, considering that each of your 'limited' options is better than 99% of the equivalent IS options.

That 1/4 second time is enough for me to get 0-40mph and a quarter mile ahead of people in a car WITHOUT flooring it.

1/4 second time where you are moving back to cover and spreading the damage.

Each trade, done WELL means you shoot first and fastest, and if you have good reactions your opponent may not even see where you shot from.

[Xetelian]

Stop these threads.


ACH is a light mech. I run all weights and I have had little trouble killing them.

[Lugh]

Nik Reaper, on 13 August 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

So just to be clear, there are people here who can some how justify the huge amount of armor quirks this mech has?
OP, not OP, if it's just about the armor quirks, more so the leg one , you really think it needs locust level leg structure buffs to keep being "ok" ?

I

Dimento Graven, on 13 August 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Oh you're so full of ****, it's incredible. We see the same things, we attempt to do the same things, but clanners with their speed, range, DPS, and survivability advantages, means that even if the IS matches you tactic for tactic, and does the EXACT SAME amount of damage as you do, they STILL LOSE!

Again, since an IS 'mech requires a LOT less damage on average to kill than a Clan 'mech, the clans actually have to make MORE mistakes over a given match than their IS equivalents to lose.

Again, you're assuming I'm making bad builds. Far from it. This isn't an L2P situation, it's an "I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs". I haven't taken a break from the game, I've been playing and learning and watching and observing and regardless of your overinflated opinion of yourself and your fellow clan pilots intelligence, it's the 'mech giving you your advantage, not the fact that because you've chosen to play clan the gods have granted you extra skills.

Again, you can go procreate with yourself. Yes 10 to 15 percent difference, thank god it's only that. There's no "understanding" of the opponent you can do that will help you win consistently when they are given a 165% to 200% better technological advantage. The ONLY thing you can do is overwhelm the enemy at that point, which is what lore had the IS doing to the clans.

MWO does NOT allow the IS to 'overwhelm' the Clans with their numbers. It locked at 12v12, which mech per mech, that 10 to 15 percent adds up.

Yeah sure he's wrong, uh huh, the fact that your weapons ALREADY doing more damage per shot, are doing FULL damage a LONGER distances vs. the IS's need to get MUCH CLOSER to do full (but still lesser) damage has absolutely NOTHING to do with his correctly resetting that 'sweetspot'.

There's a clanner sweetspot and an IS sweetspot, they aren't the same.

Only if you are sitting there taking it. That shorter burn time which you keep dismissing as being something that can be overlooked, allows you to get to cover and twist faster, which keeps you alive longer, hell if you had the reactions of a 20 year old you might not even be hit.. (i'm not 20 have been for a couple decades now)

But hey yeah, IS mechs suck, how many planets has MS taken since they switched to Rassal?

[Dimento Graven]

Lugh, on 13 August 2015 - 10:14 AM, said:

That 1/4 second time is enough for me to get 0-40mph and a quarter mile ahead of people in a car WITHOUT flooring it.

Irrelevant.

Quote

1/4 second time where you are moving back to cover and spreading the damage.

With your greater alpha at longer range, this is a minimal advantage at best. I'm STILL having to get closer to you to actually do full damage with my .25 second less duration shots.

Quote

Each trade, done WELL means you shoot first and fastest, and if you have good reactions your opponent may not even see where you shot from.

Oh, I get it now. You're saying that as long as I play my IS 'mech 'perfectly' and you play your clan mech at 'average', I'll pretty much win.

Yes, I agree, Clan 'mechs ARE easy mode.

[Mystere]

MechregSurn, on 13 August 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

The game needs balance or it will die. Relegating inner sphere players to targets for pay to win players will end this game prematurely.

Considering that has been said since the very beginning, I am shocked .. I say shocked ... that MWO is still alive and kicking.

[Dimento Graven]

Lugh, on 13 August 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Only if you are sitting there taking it. That shorter burn time which you keep dismissing as being something that can be overlooked, allows you to get to cover and twist faster, which keeps you alive longer, hell if you had the reactions of a 20 year old you might not even be hit.. (i'm not 20 have been for a couple decades now)

The shorter burn time is only POINT TWO FIVE SECONDS. I STILL have to poke out and see you to shoot you with that .25 seconds less burn time. In the mean time, you hit me with your HARDER, but .25 seconds LONGER shot, I'm STILL taking more damage (especially at range) and god forbid if I've equipped an XL in my IS 'mech.

Quote

But hey yeah, IS mechs suck, how many planets has MS taken since they switched to Rassal?

Honestly I don't know, but, who are they actually fighting, and how much actual competition has showed up to fight? When MS was clan it was always oh so much fun to consistently see two or three extra twelve mans attacking a planet while the IS was attempting to defend.

If MS is attacking other IS, then it's not even moot it simply does not apply to this discussion.

If MS is attacking Clan, I take it you believe they're doing well. Maybe they are, I'm not monitoring that border, however, MS is typically well organized and as I've already stated the way IS beats the clans if the clans aren't playing well. MS plays very well and they have A LOT of numbers, so typically even if one or two groups of MS aren't playing well, the others can cover the slack.

That doesn't mean that IS and Clan 'mechs are balanced.

Not by a long shot.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 13 August 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Adiuvo]

Mystere, on 13 August 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

Considering that has been said since the very beginning, I am shocked .. I say shocked ... that MWO is still alive and kicking.

I wouldn't say kicking. The game is doing better than it has before but I honestly doubt there's a wealth of population growth.

[Lugh]

Dimento Graven, on 13 August 2015 - 10:18 AM, said:

Irrelevant.

With your greater alpha at longer range, this is a minimal advantage at best. I'm STILL having to get closer to you to actually do full damage with my .25 second less duration shots.

Oh, I get it now. You're saying that as long as I play my IS 'mech 'perfectly' and you play your clan mech at 'average', I'll pretty much win.

Yes, I agree, Clan 'mechs ARE easy mode.

No I am saying if you play your IS mech well and I play my clan mech well the better pilot will win out. I loaded up a King Crab for the lulz because I heard they sucked so hard compared to DW in firepower / armor.

The SECOND Direwolf I killed Almost got me, but I rolled his clan style uac10s better than he rolled (not at all) my IS UAC 5s (4)

3-0 in the Crab. First 20 or so matches in the whale, Just now poking over a 1.1 KDR....

A 1/4 of a second is not irrelevant. It is an eternity in competitive matches.

Edited by Lugh, 13 August 2015 - 10:42 AM.

[Marauder3D]

As a light and medium pilot, I would suggest we need more "OP" light and mediums, not less.

That said, I don't think the Cheetah needed all the positive quirks it got. Or, maybe give every light all those structure buffs. I want light and mediums to be more common in the game, not less.

[Catra Lanis]

Sarlic, on 13 August 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

The amount of people who are defending the ACH is just disgusting. Powercreep much?

Good definition why this game is turning another stomp fest with poor balancing if you get the Community involved.

No offense, just stating a fact.

Normally i wouldnt let me slip into a rage thread. But this is just common sense. The ACH has everything with practically none drawbacks.

I am no man to call giant nerfs. But as i stated before: small profile, ECM, hell of a punch, good mounts and speed. Every clanner wet dream for the purist. Being realistic as i am i dont go in a stupid defense mode 'Everything is fine, L2P, aim' or whatever.

One thing is certain: it needs a drawback. Currently it has zero.

No numbers to back up anything from me. I only know one thing. I am not an ace pilot but more of a "Jack of all trades" I do ok in all classes, not great, maybe not even good but decent. I did ok in my Ravens, I could even give some firestarters a run for their money in a dogfight as long as it was 1 vs 1. The Cheetah has changed all that. I have not managed to kill 1 so far in a straight up fight in a Raven. I simply do not have the firepower and if I go for more firepower I do not have the DPS. Meanwhile the Cheetah dances around me and he only needs two solid hits because, well the Raven is a light too.

[Top Leliel]

So in a month and a half, if the original schedule goes as planned, MWO will be available on Steam and Arctic Cheetahs will be available for C-Bills.

I hope you guys are mastering those streakboats.

[Dimento Graven]

Lugh, on 13 August 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

No I am saying if you play your IS mech well and I play my clan mech well the better pilot will win out.

If two pilots play with equal skill, it's the 'mech that will make the difference (barring known issues with hit reg and HSR of course).

That's all that's left. The 'mech with the superior alpha, range, and survivability will win.

Quote

I loaded up a King Crab for the lulz because I heard they sucked so hard compared to DW in firepower / armor.

The SECOND Direwolf I killed Almost got me, but I rolled his clan style uac10s better than he rolled (not at all) my IS UAC 5s (4)

3-0 in the Crab. First 20 or so matches in the whale, Just now poking over a 1.1 KDR....

Who ever told you the KGC sucked obviously hasn't found a build he likes. I love my KGC, and own every single one available. NOW, having very intimate knowledge and extensive experience piloting it, I know the following:

1. Don't put an XL in it.
2. When putting a standard engine in it, make sure the speed is FASTER than 53.5 (the fastest DW speed).
3. Like a light 'mech, keep it moving.

When I'm beating multiple Direwolves, it's because:

The Direwolf pilots are NOT fighting as well as I am at that moment.

Yeah, it's absolutely possible to beat a Direwolf in a KGC, heck I've done it in my Jaeger, but had I been playing as badly as the enemy... I'd have been dead first, no question.

To kill a Direwolf, I have to either core him out in CT or head, BOTH side torsos or take both legs. If I'm foolish enough to put an XL engine in my KGC for a CW match, all the DW has to do is take ONE
side torso, AND, unfortunately most average or better pilots know to aim for the KGC's right torso.

Why? Because even if taking out the right torso DOES NOT kill the KGC, you've eliminated 75% of their weapons as the right torso is the only other location where there's weapon mounts, all the KGC will have left is one ballistic, and there's a potential for NOT having ammo after that torso loss, eliminating all effectiveness of the KGC.

A similarly hit DW, will typically only lose 50% of their weaponry, and there's still a whole other side torso to burn through...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 13 August 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lugh, on 13 August 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

Here you go

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0a74618018a5927[/smurfy]

86kph 2 JJ and all the weapons you asked for, sadly it lost 1 DHS at 16 from 17, but with quirks and personal skills you can handle that right?

Let's just ignore the fact that you are comparing a mech that is 5 TONS LIGHTER to another mech. And your firepower is ~ equal, with quirks for cooling BETTER. And oh yeah cycling faster than that 5 ton heavier mech

ACCELERATION RATE (LOW SPEED): 10.00 % ACCELERATION RATE (MED SPEED): 10.00 % ACCELERATION RATE (HIGH SPEED): 10.00 % ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (CT): 11.00 ADDITIONAL ARMOR (LL): 15.00 ADDITIONAL ARMOR (RL): 15.00 ADDITIONAL ARMOR (LA): 11.00 ADDITIONAL ARMOR (RA): 11.00 MEDIUM LASER COOLDOWN: 10.00 % ENERGY COOLDOWN: 10.00 % ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 %

The problem isn't the game. It's YOU, not applying what you know to get what you want / need out of the mech.

Lol okay Champ. Look at an Ebon Jaguar then.

You completely ignored the significant deficit in DHS, firepower is equal at less range. Man what is wrong with you. Is this why we see Grasshoppers in comp matches everywhere?

and yeah, 16 DHS is terrible, absolutely terrible. Have you ever even played this mech? You also gave up one of its high mounted LPLs. And you are lecturing me on how to build mechs? Lol

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 13 August 2015 - 11:02 AM.

[Xetelian]

Sarlic, on 13 August 2015 - 09:31 AM, said:

One thing is certain: it needs a drawback. Currently it has zero.

IT IS A LIGHT MECH

That is a HUGE drawback. 153 armor stock and that is spread between 1 head 2 arms 2 legs 4 torso 2 center (front and back).
Stock 153
153/11 ~14 armor per part .
Max 210
210/11 ~19 per part

Even a medium can utilize an AC20 or Gauss which can take off arms and shoulders in 1 or 2 shots.

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 13 August 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

Lol okay Champ. Look at an Ebon Jaguar then.

You completely ignored the significant deficit in DHS, firepower is equal at less range. Man what is wrong with you. Is this why we see Grasshoppers in comp matches everywhere?

and yeah, 16 DHS is terrible, absolutely terrible. Have you ever even played this mech? You also gave up one of its high mounted LPLs. And you are lecturing me on how to build mechs? Lol

I would easily dumb down the engine (closer to 325) to recoup that tonnage in DHS.

Even then, that's a ridiculously hot build, and embarrassing excuse for not understanding how heat inefficient that is with no less than 18 DHS.

[Gas Guzzler]

Deathlike, on 13 August 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

I would easily dumb down the engine (closer to 325) to recoup that tonnage in DHS.

Even then, that's a ridiculously hot build, and embarrassing excuse for not understanding how heat inefficient that is with no less than 18 DHS.

No kidding. It's like "See you can run this mech almost as fast but with far worse sustained firepower ability. NOW your mech is better than a Timber Wolf."

He didn't even address the fact that Ebon Jags and Timbers have so many extra DHS.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 13 August 2015 - 11:13 AM.

[Catra Lanis]

Xetelian, on 13 August 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

IT IS A LIGHT MECH

That is a HUGE drawback. 153 armor stock and that is spread between 1 head 2 arms 2 legs 4 torso 2 center (front and back).
Stock 153
153/11 ~14 armor per part .
Max 210
210/11 ~19 per part

Even a medium can utilize an AC20 or Gauss which can take off arms and shoulders in 1 or 2 shots.

That is not a drawback in itself. It is like saying: It is an assault that is slow and therefore it is a drawback. Yes you can kill it with an AC20 but you can do that to every light mech. If it eats other light mechs for lunch something is wrong.

[Adiuvo]

Catra Lanis, on 13 August 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:

That is not a drawback in itself. It is like saying: It is an assault that is slow and therefore it is a drawback. Yes you can kill it with an AC20 but you can do that to every light mech. If it eats other light mechs for lunch something is wrong.

Lights overall are weaker than the other classes, even when comparing the best out of them.

Lights are amazing against poor to average players. Against people who can aim well they really aren't though.

[Mystere]

Dimento Graven, on 13 August 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

If two pilots play with equal skill, it's the 'mech that will make the difference (barring known issues with hit reg and HSR of course).

Here's the rub. No two people are ever literally equal. That is the reason why people and equipment are rotated during tests to remove that uncertainty from the equation.

So who's willing to setting up a 100-1000 round test in the name of science?

Edited by Mystere, 13 August 2015 - 11:34 AM.