53 replies to this topic

[Vxheous]

Imperius, on 16 August 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

CW was a waste of resources from the start. This game had suffered from get good scrub syndrome since day one. The game has no issues bringing people in. It does however have an issue of keeping them.

Right now your options as a new player are.

1. Get good at pvp if you stick around long enough to build a copy paste meta build, all thre chassis to master it, and gain the cbills needed for those oh so cheap modules, while getting stomped game after game by beta players.

2. Quit

There is no new player friendly environment in this game, it's "GET GOOD NEWB!" day one install. There is no outlet to play and practice, no place to just get a feel for the game without the communities negative feedback of how bad you are.

So what does the game lack and need?

PVE

If this game launches on steam without a solid PVE experience it will be the end of MWO. I'm not a doomsayer but you won't recover from that kind of bad press. Look at batman, it was so bad steam pulled it from the store.

MWO really needs steam and new people for CW to succeed and be a focus again. That's just the bottom line.

PvE is not going to teach players how to get better, that is like playing StarCraft II campaign to get better at StarCraft II ladder matches. PvE for immersion in BT universe yes, teaching people to play better, no.

[Fate 6]

Pretty much no reason for casuals to play CW and I've been saying that from the start (even though I'm on a comp team with enough ppl to get 12 man drops regularly).

[HellJumper]

worry not..

the next three phases of CW will solve all problems... coming online in 90 days...

pufff. and when it will finally come.. it will be... ummm.. CW Beta 3.0

problem solved.. now go play CW

[spectralthundr]

I'm still amazed people expected CW to be much different than MPBT3025. Hate to say I told you so, but I told you so.

[Vxheous]

Imperius, on 16 August 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

Just like reading posts on the forums won't increase your reading comprehension.

I comprehended your post just fine, I just do not agree that PvE is going to be the saving grace for a game that is marketed as a PvP game. What the game needs is a better new player experience, with better tutorials, better starting incentive than a 25 game cadet bonus and a different matchmaking system for beginner players besides elo.

Maybe a "pilot" that is attached to an account, much like a "summoner" in League of Legends is what is needed, where as you play games, your "pilot" levels up until a certain level. That way players are matched against similar levels of people (level 1 beginners only play against levels 1-5, etc) and this applies to both solo and group queue, so that small groups of new players can play together without running into groups of players that have fully mastered/fully moduled out meta build mechs with 3+ years of playing experience.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 17 August 2015 - 01:13 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 16 August 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

PvE is not going to teach players how to get better, that is like playing StarCraft II campaign to get better at StarCraft II ladder matches. PvE for immersion in BT universe yes, teaching people to play better, no.

And that's why PvE is better. You can sit back and enjoy the game. It's the best part of DCUO. No Epeen, almost no trolls save in pug raids and you can kick/ignore those jerks never to play with them again, just play with your friends and have a great time. Depending on how well they develop PvE here, I'd probably never return to PvP.

Edited by Kjudoon, 17 August 2015 - 01:19 AM.

[Aiden Skye]

I like how OP likes every post that promotes the toxic vitriol that is these forums. And ignore those that actually say why CW hasn't gotten any updates for a while. As PGI said it would be for a while while they add new features, fix the UI, redo maps, fix hit reg, rebalance the game, put up new servers,  reschale mechs, improve performance. Etc, etc.
Sounds like all you want to hear is that PGI is lazy and doesn't care. Light the torches and bring out the pitchforks! To the gallows!!!

Edited by W A R K H A N, 17 August 2015 - 01:25 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

CW dead as mode.

[Alistair Winter]

Chemie, on 16 August 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

even PGI seems to not care

Came to say this. CW hasn't just been one big fiasco, it's been a series of fails leading to a big fiasco.

I distanced myself from the whole affair long ago. I think it was Town Hall #2 when Russ Bullock presented his great vision of CW. People were asking him "Maybe we could make CW more strategical? Create more objectives outside the gates? Spread the fighting to different parts of the map?" and Russ basically laid it down like this:

• Defenders should not be pushing out
  
• Blitzing should not be a viable strategy
  
• There shouldn't be any fighting over the gate generators
  
• Gates and walls are there to ensure a big brawl inside the base
  
• The point of this game mode is a series of big brawls, not spreading your forces over the map

At that moment, I basically resigned from the whole thing, because I know that even if CW was successful (which I doubted), I would never personally enjoy it anyway.

People were hoping for new maps to be different, but each new map was just another testament to Russ' grand vision. A bunch of narrow lanes leading to the gates and a big brawl inside the base. No strategy. No secondary objectives. No action outside the gates, unless the attackers are being steamrolled.

At no point did PGI, as far as I'm aware, ask their players why nobody's playing CW and what it would take to rejuvenate people's interest. I guess they consider that an admission of failure.

No hard feelings. But I'm never playing 12v12 again untill they completely change it. I'm rather looking forward to 4v4 though.

[Sarlic]

Indeed. There's no single depth...

[Alistair Winter]

W A R K H A N, on 17 August 2015 - 01:22 AM, said:

Sounds like all you want to hear is that PGI is lazy and doesn't care.

I don't think it's laziness, I think Russ' faith in his own judgement is the whole reason we have this great game to begin with. He's not afraid to make risky decisions and he's not afraid to stick to his original vision. One of the things I love about this game is that they kept the core of mech building relatively close to TT, for example, even though people have been begging PGI to change the weight and crit space of all the weapons, change the weight and crit space for engines, completely redesign how Clan XL engines work, etc.

In some cases, Russ' confidence is a great thing. In the case of CW, it's not. He's sticking to his guns and players are fleeing CW like rats off a sinking ship. It's not laziness. They did spend a lot of time creating six different CW maps, probably because Russ was confident that players would appreciate CW if they just got a bit more variation.

And right now, I'm pretty sure Russ still thinks the maps and game mode aren't the problem. When they do their next CW pass, reset the map and start CW Beta 3, I expect they'll update the logistics and the career paths (mercenary, lone wolf, loyalist) and leave the maps and game mode unchanged.

And maybe that will be enough, for some people.
http://mwomercs.com/...riority-for-cw/

[Anjian]

I play CW because I like it. Its practically the only game modes I play in MWO now. I only play the public queues to test my ping or test or experiment with new mech configurations. One advantage of CW is to avoid the horrid Terra Therma and Viridian Bog maps. I think CW lacks depth but then again, neither does the public games.

[Imperius]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 17 August 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

I comprehended your post just fine, I just do not agree that PvE is going to be the saving grace for a game that is marketed as a PvP game. What the game needs is a better new player experience, with better tutorials, better starting incentive than a 25 game cadet bonus and a different matchmaking system for beginner players besides elo.

Maybe a "pilot" that is attached to an account, much like a "summoner" in League of Legends is what is needed, where as you play games, your "pilot" levels up until a certain level. That way players are matched against similar levels of people (level 1 beginners only play against levels 1-5, etc) and this applies to both solo and group queue, so that small groups of new players can play together without running into groups of players that have fully mastered/fully moduled out meta build mechs with 3+ years of playing experience.

My point is pvp can't ever offer a smooth learning environment. You can't control nor accurately measure pilot skill. AI you can control, again the biggest issue with this game is pvp and if you get tired or frustrated from that your only alternative is to quit. I'd rather have a place where new players can retreat to when pvp gets rough. Why? Because at least if they still have a place to play or a place to belong, they will most likely spend money on the game.

What's wrong with pvp is that there only is pvp.

So I ask you this are you willing to dumb down MWO more for that sake of keeping new users? Or would you rather give them an environment they can roam in?

Here's the only way to fix pvp to accept new users.

Health pools no more "component destruction".
Remove all torso twist speed and limitations all mechs get normalization.
Automatic lock on from all players that have line of sight.
Ghost heat removed.
Single player only queue.
Respawns.

Are you ok with all of those?

Edited by Imperius, 17 August 2015 - 04:52 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

00ohDstruct, on 16 August 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

I've heard rumor of 4 vs. 4 for CW... (not understanding why ONLY CW though... because I think 12 vs. 12 only compounds meta/alpha strike/ECM/balance issues in the first place but who am I i'm not being paid to half-ass balance)

4v4 would just turn into synchdropping like it was done in te past.

[Deathlike]

Alistair Winter, on 17 August 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

Came to say this. CW hasn't just been one big fiasco, it's been a series of fails leading to a big fiasco.

I distanced myself from the whole affair long ago. I think it was Town Hall #2 when Russ Bullock presented his great vision of CW. People were asking him "Maybe we could make CW more strategical? Create more objectives outside the gates? Spread the fighting to different parts of the map?" and Russ basically laid it down like this:

• Defenders should not be pushing out
  
• Blitzing should not be a viable strategy
  
• There shouldn't be any fighting over the gate generators
  
• Gates and walls are there to ensure a big brawl inside the base
  
• The point of this game mode is a series of big brawls, not spreading your forces over the map

At that moment, I basically resigned from the whole thing, because I know that even if CW was successful (which I doubted), I would never personally enjoy it anyway.


People were hoping for new maps to be different, but each new map was just another testament to Russ' grand vision. A bunch of narrow lanes leading to the gates and a big brawl inside the base. No strategy. No secondary objectives. No action outside the gates, unless the attackers are being steamrolled.

At no point did PGI, as far as I'm aware, ask their players why nobody's playing CW and what it would take to rejuvenate people's interest. I guess they consider that an admission of failure.

No hard feelings. But I'm never playing 12v12 again untill they completely change it. I'm rather looking forward to 4v4 though.

You realize all the points you laid out are mindless... more or less what we already have in the non-CW queues.

I've seen older (and free - the actual $0 kind that isn't even "F2P") FPSs have more depth than this game. That's pretty sad honestly.

Alistair Winter, on 17 August 2015 - 02:23 AM, said:

I don't think it's laziness, I think Russ' faith in his own judgement is the whole reason we have this great game to begin with. He's not afraid to make risky decisions and he's not afraid to stick to his original vision. One of the things I love about this game is that they kept the core of mech building relatively close to TT, for example, even though people have been begging PGI to change the weight and crit space of all the weapons, change the weight and crit space for engines, completely redesign how Clan XL engines work, etc.

I'm pretty sure it's laziness. Even if that wasn't the case, it's totally uninspired.

Quote

In some cases, Russ' confidence is a great thing. In the case of CW, it's not. He's sticking to his guns and players are fleeing CW like rats off a sinking ship. It's not laziness. They did spend a lot of time creating six different CW maps, probably because Russ was confident that players would appreciate CW if they just got a bit more variation.

The maps themselves are uninspired (some are more annoying than others - see Grim Portico's boundaries) and they still need major refinement (environmental hitboxes are like PGI's mapmaking bane). They primarily feed to chokepoints.. even at the gate (heck, it's the only tactically sound thing for both teams).

Quote

And right now, I'm pretty sure Russ still thinks the maps and game mode aren't the problem. When they do their next CW pass, reset the map and start CW Beta 3, I expect they'll update the logistics and the career paths (mercenary, lone wolf, loyalist) and leave the maps and game mode unchanged.

And maybe that will be enough, for some people.
http://mwomercs.com/...riority-for-cw/

It's just going to be an additional grind for stuff as far as I can tell... none of which resolve the core mode issues or even "logistics". As long as unit coffers are only for breaking contracts, it's not very forward thinking or creative/unique by any stretch of the imagination.

[Rahul Roy]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 August 2015 - 09:05 AM, said:

4v4 would just turn into synchdropping like it was done in te past.

I think the hope is the teams will keep playing as 12.

The casuals who don't get anything out of being assigned 11 other casuals to team with, will have an option to play 4.

If nothing else it will be quicker/easier to put together 4 for a launch than 12. And quicker to kill 4.

[KinLuu]

Rahul Roy, on 17 August 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

I think the hope is the teams will keep playing as 12.

The casuals who don't get anything out of being assigned 11 other casuals to team with, will have an option to play 4.

If nothing else it will be quicker/easier to put together 4 for a launch than 12. And quicker to kill 4.

There are a lot of small to medium sized units. Like mine. Those will drop in 4 vs. 4. A lot.

[Davegt27]

There are some problems with CW since it is beta but I hope we all stick with it

Maybe play ones a week, try new load outs

Things have gotten better, the butt kickings we were getting back in late December early Jan where pretty tough

I remember one clan team taking down the Gamma gate killing all three generators and omega
I think I pulled the trigger on my Jager 5 times

I am still in shock

Most people can take a butt kicking if they feel like they at least did something

It takes a lot of hard work by PGI to make things work
Let’s give it some time

[Dawnstealer]

W A R K H A N, on 16 August 2015 - 06:45 PM, said:

Russ said on Twitter that no major additions to CW were planned until Later on in the year months ago. Until then PGI is reworking old maps, balance pass on the way, new mechs released and on the way, new features added in UI along with bug fixes and optimization and the new spectator tool. People in these toxic forums just need to chill out!

This is kind of my view, too. That said, I'm also not dropping in CW until those additions are put in place. CAS drops are more fun nowadays and quicker with greater rewards. No brainer at the moment.

[Samurai Hanse Davion]

Stay Out Of CW If You Are Not Ready For Competitive Gameplay.