263 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

ugrakarma, on 17 August 2015 - 11:08 PM, said:

Should start from the bottom. How to make bad new player experience even worse? Make him drop to lower tier to really let him know how bad he is.

I think the match scores would quickly adjust at the beginning. If you start at tier 4 but your first couple matches are tier 5 level performances, you will drop pretty quick. And besides, most new players don't expect to be good right off the back, but some will be better than others.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 August 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

I think the match scores would quickly adjust at the beginning. If you start at tier 4 but your first couple matches are tier 5 level performances, you will drop pretty quick. And besides, most new players don't expect to be good right off the back, but some will be better than others.

That's why it should be a climb up to make it an achievement to get to next tier. I'm pretty sure no one wants to see negative development especially when they start a new game.

[IraqiWalker]

ugrakarma, on 17 August 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

That's why it should be a climb up to make it an achievement to get to next tier. I'm pretty sure no one wants to see negative development especially when they start a new game.

It's best to put them in tier 4 instead of 5. Tier 5 is worse than most new players sometimes.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

IraqiWalker, on 17 August 2015 - 11:13 PM, said:

Except that they are not at the bottom. They are seeded near the top of Tier 4. Meaning they are very close to tier 3, the median tier.

You are missing my point. If Tiers are public they see negative development and feel bad. When I start a new game and I suck at it at first, I don't need the game to tell me "you're so bad we dropped you a Tier lower".

[IraqiWalker]

ugrakarma, on 17 August 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

You are missing my point. If Tiers are public they see negative development and feel bad. When I start a new game and I suck at it at first, I don't need the game to tell me "you're so bad we dropped you a Tier lower".

Tiers are not going to be public though.

[bad arcade kitty]

ugrakarma, on 17 August 2015 - 11:46 PM, said:

You are missing my point. If Tiers are public they see negative development and feel bad. When I start a new game and I suck at it at first, I don't need the game to tell me "you're so bad we dropped you a Tier lower".

yeah, that's why ranked games should be a separate mode, available when you play x games or something

[Kjudoon]

Sounds like they are going to allow the community. To vote and or use N " opt in " model.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 August 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

yeah, that's why ranked games should be a separate mode, available when you play x games or something

Good point there.

[Mcgral18]

bad arcade kitty, on 17 August 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

yeah, that's why ranked games should be a separate mode, available when you play x games or something

MWO doesn't have the playerbase for that, unfortunately.


Not both a Ranked, Casual, Group and CW.

Current plan seems fine, and I'll be glad to try it out.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

IraqiWalker, on 17 August 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

Tiers are not going to be public though.

That remains to be seen. If you see the tier privately, see negative progress, it will be a huge let down for many. If you think gamers don't care about it you're wrong. It will be incentive to play.

[Aresye]

Things are about to get verrrrryyy interesting.

[IraqiWalker]

ugrakarma, on 17 August 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

That remains to be seen. If you see the tier privately, see negative progress, it will be a huge let down for many. If you think gamers don't care about it you're wrong. It will be incentive to play.

I'm not saying they don't care about it.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

IraqiWalker, on 17 August 2015 - 11:59 PM, said:

I'm not saying they don't care about it.

May I ask what are you saying?

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

ugrakarma, on 17 August 2015 - 11:55 PM, said:

That remains to be seen. If you see the tier privately, see negative progress, it will be a huge let down for many. If you think gamers don't care about it you're wrong. It will be incentive to play.

And the guy you are quoting.

__

No need to put lipstick on a "PGI" any more.

But, back on track.. this thread is about the end of Elo.. not stats being able to be seen or not.

[Yokaiko]

Quote

MWO is not a 1v1 game. It is, currently, a 12v12 team-based game. Beyond your own performance, the outcome of a match is fundamentally reliant on the performance of your teammates. Their level of skill or experience would have a significant impact on determining whether your Elo would rise or fall after a match had concluded.
One of the impacts of this was that organized and effective teams could potentially carry a player to an Elo score well beyond what may befit their actual skill level. In this way and others, the Elo system caused all sorts of issues with the matchmaker in both solo and group queues, and would never accurately reflect how a player may perform on a personal basis.

Boy if I hadn't been saying that since open beta.

[kapusta11]

Hmm.. still seems convoluted.

First: PSR is dynamic, player's skill is not, well if you're novice player it will improve over time but eventually it will reach individual cap. Even good players may perform badly from time to time but according to new system the game will treat you as slightly less skilled for the puspose of determining team compositions for the next game. The opposite is true plus the effect might snowball.

Second: It is based on kills, assists and other stuff. Getting 8 kills is not an evidence of skill, it's just veteran player being matched against novice players. Same can be said about facing players of lower tier on the battlefiels with new system.

A team of 12 tryhards can win 12/0 with everyone doing 300 damage or less and scoring 1 kill each or none at all, maybe a few other players scoring 3 kills and 700 damage but it doesn't mean they are worse than average solo queue veteran, in fact they still have more chances to win.

Players might leave cored mechs to be finished off by their teammates on purpose just to ensure that their PSR remains the same.

Third: Is it class specific? If not then you have another problem.

Edited by kapusta11, 18 August 2015 - 12:46 AM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Quote

MWO is not a 1v1 game. It is, currently, a 12v12 team-based game. Beyond your own performance, the outcome of a match is fundamentally reliant on the performance of your teammates. Their level of skill or experience would have a significant impact on determining whether your Elo would rise or fall after a match had concluded.
One of the impacts of this was that organized and effective teams could potentially carry a player to an Elo score well beyond what may befit their actual skill level. In this way and others, the Elo system caused all sorts of issues with the matchmaker in both solo and group queues, and would never accurately reflect how a player may perform on a personal basis.

YES! Now the actual TEAMS can be matched up based on skill, not carrys or win/loss. Its about time!

birds of a feather QQ or celebrate together. Or how does that go?


This news has made me want to try this game again after... giving up on it completely. There are a lot of people in my other games who feel the same way!

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 18 August 2015 - 12:22 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

ugrakarma, on 18 August 2015 - 12:01 AM, said:

May I ask what are you saying?

I was just saying that it's better for new players to start near the bottom instead of at the bottom, because while the climb might be rewarding, Elo hell is a thing, or in this case PSR hell. Where no matter how you struggle, you will get dragged down by those around you.

I also think public ranks will be a bad idea, simply because of the abuse factor.

[Lily from animove]

OH GOD.

wry but OH GOD.

how bad.

this new ranking system would be good given MWO is even able to distribute Score correctly.

look at em ma, im that light pilot who capped the base in assault, I got, nearly no score. Random no skillrandy over there has gotten 50 score for soem battling. Randomrandy is due to the new scoresystem now an awesome dude.


OH NO PLS NO. this is not good.
Stupid badly performing splashgdmaage hoarding lrm pilots will suddenly be "judged" as good because nonsense splash damage = score.

without a proper redistribution of the Scores implementing this was a not so good iea.

also, "flanking" bonus, seriously? flanking in this game always happens when you are not in the sightfield of a opponent's pilot, I literally already facetanked guys from the front ebcause they were slightly twisted in, this is not flanking. Especially when twisting of the opponent pilot causes "flanking" LOL

A team of 12 coordinated pilots everyone will do averagely, a team of random fools, many will do bad, some will do great (due to using the baddies as cannonfodder). now this will judge these lon guys better than the real good pilots.

the flaws, the obvious flaws in this system, they are soo real.

Sry had to rant.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 August 2015 - 12:48 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Lily from animove, on 18 August 2015 - 12:42 AM, said:

OH GOD.

wry but OH GOD.

how bad.

this new ranking system would be good given MWO is even able to distribute Score correctly.

look at em ma, im that light pilot who capped the base in assault, I got, nearly no score. Random no skillrandy over there has gotten 50 score for soem battling. Randomrandy is due to the new scoresystem now an awesome dude.


OH NO PLS NO. this is not good.
Stupid badly performing splashgdmaage hoarding lrm pilots will suddenly be "judged" as good because nonsense splash damage = score.

without a proper redistribution of the Scores implementing this was a not so good iea.

also, "flanking" bonus, seriously? flanking in this game always happens when you are not in the sightfield of a opponent's pilot, I literally already facetanked guys from the front ebcause they were slightly twisted in, this is not flanking. Especially when twisting of the opponent pilot causes "flanking" LOL

A team of 12 coordinated pilots everyone will do averagely, a team of random fools, many will do bad, some will do great (due to using the baddies as cannonfodder). now this will judge these lon guys better than the real good pilots.

the flaws, the obvious flaws in this system, they are soo real.

Sry had to rant.

They did redistribute the scores.

Check the patch notes.