767 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

PhoenixFire55, on 22 August 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

Thats why like it was suggested a gazillion times everyone should be able to see everyone elses stats, including the total amount of played matches.

I mean, you have good intentions, but I don't think most toxic players will give two hoots about the target of their ire's stats. They'll simply look at their tier and say "scrub." Those sorts rarely consider the option of research, even if it was a possibility. :\

[0111101]

Pariah Devalis, on 22 August 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

Unfortunately, that would shift it towards toxic use. A new player may have a terrible rating, but they may want to learn and be capable of learning. However, with a T4/5 tag forced on them, they might get unfairly blasted by teammates and, as a result, not even bother and quit the game due to toxic community members.

I say make it opt in. If you want to show your tier, do so. If you don't want to, don't. Frankly, I am curious for curiosity's sake alone as to my tier.

Seems like we're looking at this from opposite sides so I'll clarify a bit - I'm looking to have the tiers displayed so that the toxic players are easily ignored. This is coming from my experience with the loud ones as described in my post you replied to... Strictly from what I've seen in-game the majority of the toxic players are swimming around the bottom of the barrel.

That being said I would also like the PSR to be publicly displayed so that I can figure out who to trust and who to avoid. For example, let's say I'm following a friendly assault mech around the map, providing ECM or fire support, whatever context you want. The PSR isn't displayed so I follow him to my death because it turns out he's T5 with a pair that clank - while I'd be happy he's not playing scared, I'd be unhappy that I made the choice to follow him assuming he could hold his own and that the two of us would be able to do some serious damage together. On the other side of it, if it's publicly displayed and I see a higher tier player moving up to make a push or going around for a flanking maneuver, I'll be comfortable in my decision to follow up on him because his ranking is (hopefully) a good indicator that he has a clue about how to play the game. Others in this thread have addressed this, I just can't find their actual posts in all these comments.

And whether PSR is publicly displayed or not, toxic players will still be just that.

Edit: and regarding your statement about newbies getting blasted - if their tier rating is displayed, reasonable players should know not to expect too much from them. They are still learning to play the game, after all. It should be assumed that the toxic players you're referring to are unreasonable and that they're the very vocal minority, making it seem like there's more of them than is actually the case.

Edited by 0111101, 22 August 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Redoxin]

Pariah Devalis, on 22 August 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

I mean, you have good intentions, but I don't think most toxic players will give two hoots about the target of their ire's stats. They'll simply look at their tier and say "scrub." Those sorts rarely consider the option of research, even if it was a possibility. :\

You have people calling other players bad right now without any pilot rating almost every single game. And it is very often done by players that are rather bad themselves. If they saw that they are on the same tier level as the ones they flame it should kill their arguments.
So I dont see how it could get any worse than now, but I see how it could improve.

[Pariah Devalis]

0111101, on 22 August 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

Seems like we're looking at this from opposite sides so I'll clarify a bit - I'm looking to have the tiers displayed so that the toxic players are easily ignored. This is coming from my experience with the loud ones as described in my post you replied to...

That being said I would also like the PSR to be publicly displayed so that I can figure out who to trust and who to avoid. For example, let's say I'm following a friendly assault mech around the map, providiing ECM or fire support, whatever context you want. The PSR isn't displayed so I follow him to my death because it turns out he's T5 with a pair that clank - while I'd be happy he's not playing scared, I'd be unhappy that I made the choice to follow him assuming he could hold his own and that the two of us would be able to do some serious damage together. On the other side of it, if it's publicly displayed and I see a higher tier player moving up to make a push or going around for a flanking maneuver, I'll be comfortable in my decision to follow up on him because his ranking is (hopefully) a good indicator that he has a clue about how to play the game. Others in this thread have addressed this, I just can't find their actual posts in all these comments.

And whether PSR is publicly displayed or not, toxic players will still be just that.

That's a good point. For the standpoint of proactivity, it is good to know you can trust your allies in a push. That said, knowing you, neither of us should ever see a T5, and I highly doubt either of us would see a T4 if my best guess about where we lay in the tier system is accurate. Which... actually does play into Redoxin's reply:

Redoxin, on 22 August 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

The people in the games of this newcomer will also be tier 4/5. Remember 40% of the games population will be tier 4/5. So why would they blast someone on their tier?
Besides a newcomer is one of the few that will likely see an improvement of his tier level over time. That should be a nice motivation boost.

I suppose newbies might like to see their stats increase. And being T4/5, in theory they shouldn't have too many run ins with "abusive elites" as nobody in their possible range of opponents can claim to be anything special, either.

I donno. I think my biggest, core issue with forced tier announcement is toxicity in general, where good ideas are silenced just because it isn't being made by a T1 or T2, and where T1 or T2 pilots with really bad ideas are given too much of a voice simply due to their rank. I don't want to see this community take a dip into LOL or DOTA levels of ick, ya know?

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 22 August 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[0111101]

Pariah Devalis, on 22 August 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

That's a good point. For the standpoint of proactivity, it is good to know you can trust your allies in a push. That said, knowing you, neither of us should ever see a T5, and I highly doubt either of us would see a T4 if my best guess about where we lay in the tier system is accurate. Which... actually does play into Redoxin's reply:




I suppose newbies might like to see their stats increase. And being T4/5, in theory they shouldn't have too many run ins with "abusive elites" as nobody in their possible range of opponents can claim to be anything special, either.

I donno. I think my biggest, core issue with forced tier announcement is toxicity in general, where good ideas are silenced just because it isn't being made by a T1 or T2, and where T1 or T2 pilots with really bad ideas are given too much of a voice simply due to their rank. I don't want to see this community take a dip into LOL or DOTA levels of ick, ya know?

I feel you. We're definitely on the same page then.

I'm just wondering if the mismatches I'm regularly encountering are because of the niche player base, or the difficulty in matching skill levels in group drops while also trying to get the various group sizes to add up to 12, or if it's because of how recently this PSR system was introduced... Maybe it's all of the above?

Hopefully it's just because of how new this PSR system is and once more player data is recorded it evens out.

[Pariah Devalis]

0111101, on 22 August 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

I feel you. We're definitely on the same page then.

I'm just wondering if the mismatches I'm regularly encountering are because of the niche player base, or the difficulty in matching skill levels in group drops while also trying to get the various group sizes to add up to 12, or if it's because of how recently this PSR system was introduced... Maybe it's all of the above?

Hopefully it's just because of how new this PSR system is and once more player data is recorded it evens out.

I wouldn't say they're mismatches, per say. Look at the post game damage and scores. Even in a landslide win, the winning team damage and scores are fairly uniform indicating equal participation. The reason landslides seem to happen so much in the games we are experiencing is a direct result of good players taking advantage of an enemy's weakness. 0:1 is salvageable, 0:2 is rough, and 0:3 is basically all she wrote because of the snowball effect, more mechs vs less mechs, and focus fire.

In contrast, if both teams barely know what they're doing, who wins is as much a flip of the coin as it is anything else. You can be down 4 mechs and still turn it around with one or two people either being lucky or good enough, simply because the general lack of capability on either team.

[Trygger]

I like the idea of the public Tier display. So many players mouth off simply because they appear to be good in a 12man. But the truth is it's their team that does all the work.

[Wintersdark]

Trygger, on 22 August 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

I like the idea of the public Tier display. So many players mouth off simply because they appear to be good in a 12man. But the truth is it's their team that does all the work.

It's more complicated than that. Winning in a 12-man is 90% just working together - actual pilot skill is only really relevant against another 12 man who's working together as well.

So, it's not that the team does all the work; rather, the team (including them) is the work.

Teamwork is vastly more influential to match outcome than pilot skill.

[Docta Pain]

Can we get more specific data than just which one out of five? I want to know where EXACTLY I fall in the spectrum.

[Miss Gipsy Danger]

I have cast my vote towards opt in on publicly displaying your Tier as I feel that making some share isn't right, but I feel we're skipping the step of at least being able to see your own Tier so at least you know where you stand. If the outcome of the vote is for opt in, I believe that your current Tier should at least show in your stats under your profile.

[stealthraccoon]

I am completely okay with mandatory labeling of players, but I think most would prefer if the choice was given to display (we will of course always assume that if you don't display your Tier, then you must be a 5).

Those of us that honorably earned our Tier 5 rating will proudly display willingly!

P.S. if you are a total jackalope during a match, I will throw the fight as best I can just to knock you down a peg

Edited by stealthraccoon, 22 August 2015 - 04:11 PM.

[patataman]

Full disclosure. Because knowing is always better.

I want to know if my team mates are reliable or not. This guy that took command is good and knows what he's doing? The stalker to my left is a newbie and i should defend him? I can live without knowing what tier the oponents are… but it would be nice. Perhaps friendlies at the beginning of the match and foes at the end?

I could agree with a system that shows your tier to yourself and other peole or don't show it at all, not for yourself and not for others. And that you can choose just once. But option 2 sounds like “I want to know yours, but don’t want to show you mine", and imho that's tier 6 behavior.

[Soulstrom]

stealthraccoon, on 22 August 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

I am completely okay with mandatory labeling of players, but I think most would prefer if the choice was given to display (we will of course always assume that if you don't display your Tier, then you must be a 5).

Those of us that honorably earned our Tier 5 rating will proudly display willingly!

P.S. if you are a total jackalope during a match, I will throw the fight as best I can just to knock you down a peg

You know that you can get banned from MWO for throwing matches like that. That is one of those,comments best thoght in your head and not posted permanently to a forum for everyone to see.

[BoomerZ]

As I said 4years ago .....kill tags......on your relevant mech. Or on your PILOT name.

[BoomerZ]

As I said 4years ago .....kill tags......on your relevant mech. Or on your PILOT name.

[PhoenixFire55]

Pariah Devalis, on 22 August 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

I mean, you have good intentions, but I don't think most toxic players will give two hoots about the target of their ire's stats. They'll simply look at their tier and say "scrub." Those sorts rarely consider the option of research, even if it was a possibility. :\

People are doing exactly this already without any tiers. As I already said, making PSR public won't bring anything that isn't here.

[G SE7EN7]

Get your system working, then we can talk about displaying tiers. This is a joke surely.

[bad arcade kitty]

Trygger, on 22 August 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

I like the idea of the public Tier display. So many players mouth off simply because they appear to be good in a 12man. But the truth is it's their team that does all the work.

and their team will earn them a good tier, the tiers are not separated between solo and group

[PitchBlackYeti]

I vote for "hidden", I wan't to know if I'm good or bad for my own private information, not to wave my e-peen around if tier 1 (oh I'm sure I'm not) or to get griefed by elitists if tier 5. Threatening to treat anyone that doesn't want to display their tier as T5 (thus calling names, belittling and disregarding their opinion) is...immature at best, and here I thought that MWO community's average age is quite high.

[tokumboh]

personally I know I am a Tier 5 (or even Tier 6) what I find hard is that I see that some people just don't help their teammates it does not matter what information is given it would not be enough. However I actually would like individual match stats since at time it is not clear what I have done to get better damage. I'd also like a game replay facility. Lots of Combat flight sim games had this feature it helps people understand and gain knowledge. Both of these items means more storage so it could well be the last 5 games on replay, the last 20 games for individual stats, I'd actually take the game on each to review. Your expectin people to get better in matches where they are pretty much have about 5 minutes of practice at best per match of everything such as shooting and manoeuvring together at speed and with accuracy. consider just driving a car take 25 hours any information should help.

As to the Tier thing I think it should be displayed in the match page before dropping into game but only for your side. If you have the ranking system and match maker right you should see lots of people in your own tier and if you don't either it means their is not enough players (i believe the real cause of a lot of problems with match making) or it is screwed. The information would allow both sides developers and gamers to understand the issue.

And yes as I said I'd still suck but I do enjoy running around (sometimes like a headless chicken) in a big stompy mech.