767 replies to this topic

[Torezu]

Wolfiac, on 21 August 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

Yeah, lets do this. Then we know who to blame for a loss even before the match starts. Should help liven up the conversation in voip.

That's why I voted for opt-in, and would only concede to full-disclosure if it were forum-based only, while acknowledging that even then comments could potentially be discounted by Tier rank alone.

[GullyFoyle]

Kelmeri, on 21 August 2015 - 06:30 AM, said:

All I get is error 500 when trying to vote...

error code
500: low tier or database authorization issue

Probably a low tier issue, I can't vote either...

Edited by GullyFoyle, 21 August 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[Taynak]

i don't understand why PGI won't put in the equation? is this because you don't want people playing the system and getting their match score up?

but seriously the equation for calculating the PSR should be public... as the PSR number and Tier level.

[Imperius]

Kjudoon, on 21 August 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

Yes, and I agree with you, but I must agree with Kamiko a bit here too.

OP: LRMs are OP and as a Tier 1 player, I can tell you with authority L2P noob.
First Response: yeah well I like them.
OP: and that's why you're Tier 3.

DCUO has Wavedox which allows you to track players complete stats and even what feats it's recommended to complete to improve that toon. In fact, I have seen competitive players who will not start a match till they Wavedox everyone in their team, and if they have too few skillpoints or their loadout stinks, they will kick and reopen the instance till they get someone "competent". thankfully Daybreak Games installed a 3 hour kick lockout to stop this practice, BUT it is still a big problem.

The internet is toxic. This community is outright vile at times. Mankind will always look for reasons and ways to discriminate against another to achieve power or authority over others because we are by nature evil. Having Tier be public before a match will be a problem, but after match will still be a problem because players will learn names and quit matches because of it if their team is too derpy or the enemy too high in their opinion.

For this reason, the tiers need to be hard locked, or at least you cannot play any tier higher or lower by 1 from yours.

I would love hard locked tiers trust me.

[Imperius]

Jabilo, on 21 August 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

The thing is,, feedback from low tier (read: new) players is also useful to the devs. It helps them to see what the perceptions and experiences of new players are.

To use your example, okay, they may be WRONG about LRMs but it is still useful to know that some players perceive them as really problematic.

Maybe LRMs need to be better documented? Maybe the upcoming tutorials should focus on finding cover? Maybe the stats of LRMs can be tweaked in ways that make them more effective in high end games and less effective in low end games?

What I am saying is if PSA becomes a club to shut down discussion and make people too afraid to post then that is not a good thing.

I have skimmed this thread but have seen your name several times and have only looked at a few of the 27 pages. If your passion on the subject gives an indication of how certain people are going to behave then I am thinking full disclosure is not a good idea.

I respect your right to display your tier but I do not think everyone should be forced to participate, at least at first.

See my signature that is why it should just be displayed. That said I have been talking with PGI on many accounts about New User Experience and getting a playground for new users to test their wings before migrating to Single Queue, Group Queue, or CW.

The biggest error is that people here think is the correct way of fixing things is dumbing down or removing features of the game that take time to learn.

That is why we need a set of great training missions and a single/coop campaign put in for new users to have a place to be to practice or take a break from PVP. As well as bring in more cash flow some people including myself do not really like PVP due to how toxic and selfish it is. I grew up when Xbox LIve first started played MechAssault 1/2 I developed very thick skin. I don't really report or cry that someone said something I just get on their level and beat them with experience. Then I get reported and well there you go that's what happens. So I'd rather not go to that old me born and molded by Xbox Live (Bane's voice). At the same time I want to blow **** up and just kill some damn robots.

[Skexy]

If not listing the tiers of individual pilots, maybe we could see the average tier of any given match.

-skexy

[MemeCreamSupreme]

I choose gunshy. I look to the toxicity of other competitive communities and worry. We have enough community tension here.

[GullyFoyle]

Imperius, on 21 August 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

That said I have been talking with PGI on many accounts about New User Experience and getting a playground for new users to test their wings before migrating to Single Queue, Group Queue, or CW.

The biggest error is that people here think is the correct way of fixing things is dumbing down or removing features of the game that take time to learn.

That is why we need a set of great training missions and a single/coop campaign put in for new users to have a place to be to practice or take a break from PVP. As well as bring in more cash flow some people including myself do not really like PVP due to how toxic and selfish it is. At the same time I want to blow **** up and just kill some damn robots.

I'll second that!

[William Slayer]

Opt- In

Most of what I want to say has been said, but I would like to make the point that we should agree that this new ranking system will be a balance mechanic that will work better than ELO. It is already in use, and you are already being "judged" by the computer and matched up with others of your skill level. You can't get too upset if others see your rank... they got ranked right in the mix with you, so how special are they?

[Zorakh]

Can we view our own tiers currently? I didn't see that anywhere last night when I played...

[Davers]

Serpentbane, on 19 August 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

One thing though. I play really well with some mechs, and not so well with others. The tier system should be per chassis...

Too exploitable. Every time a new chassis comes out the Tier 1 guys get to play Tier 5 guys?

[SilentFenris]

Imperius, on 21 August 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

The biggest error is that people here think is the correct way of fixing things is dumbing down or removing features of the game that take time to learn.

That is why we need a set of great training missions and a single/coop campaign put in for new users to have a place to be to practice or take a break from PVP.

I agree that an improvement in the new player experience is solely needed. Even some seasoned players do not understand minimum range/ zero damage mechanics on IS PPCs and LRMs because they started play with a Clan pack.

I dislike the idea of PGI taking time and money to develop a "single player campaign" when they have yet to deliver a solid multiplayer game. A campaign would be good eventually, but I feel the online game needs work first.

As for toxicity of multiplayer games...winning means a lot to some people, even if it is "just a game". Some will be emotional/angry/toxic. I turned off VOIP the day it was released. I keep text chat on as it is much easier to ignore annoying players when all they can do is type in CAPs rather than scream in my ears.

I support the "opt in" PSR as a compromise. Some players want public or opt in, others want private. All groups cannot have their way, so opt in seems the best solution. I would prefer option 4, our current system where nobody knows even their own rating...but I was not given the option to vote that way.

Edited by GrayFenris, 21 August 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[Davers]

Imperius, on 21 August 2015 - 09:25 AM, said:

It would clean up most of the LRM's are op threads.

Why do you think I've promoted single player/coop campaign for so long? The Internet is toxic any time there is competition there is elitism. Just how the world works.

How an LRM's op thread will go under full disclosure.

Thread: LRM's are OP and too easy to use I die from them all the time.
First Post: Oh you're Tier 5 cover must be op too! /end thread

But the First Post is right. LRMs are not OP. The thread is just straight outright wrong. Is there a problem with pointing this out?

Edited by Davers, 21 August 2015 - 02:30 PM.

[Hames]

No one should know. This will just turn into gear score in wow. "You're a lower tier than me therefore I can dismiss your argument". I find the tier system interesting over the ELO bracket but showing players their assigned number has no upside whatsoever. Legitimate criticisms will be dismissed by people who drive clan mediums and gauss better than the rest of us. Every debate will be filled with " what's your tier bro?". It's a bad idea for us to have access to our number and if you don't see all the harm it will cause then please go back to school and figure your life out.

[Icebergdx]

I chose opt in, but like many people, I would actually like to see it as opt OUT. I have no fear of being seen for what i am, or am not, but some people do. I also understand that there are people out there that will be absolute pr!cks to people who are lower tier than them. I am not afraid to admit that I am not the best mech pilot in the game, but I have been applauded many times for my ability to call targets and be an extra set of eyes, either by evading (or hiding and spotting) when I am too badly damaged, or as a second set of eyes when shot out of a mech.

No matter what, I do not want to see it as a mandatory on function. Yes , with choice, you are going to see a lot of e-peen, but I like the idea to be able to show it if you want it.

[Hames]

Krivvan, on 19 August 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Like any other similar F2P and not F2P Arena game, skill tier should be 100% public and displayed in-game clearly. Go further with stats too if possible.

Having public rankings is what keeps many people playing games like Starcraft 2, LoL, DOTA 2 and etc. Call it e-peen if you want, it's fun to have goals to achieve. As in having a clear and defined way to know you're improving and be able to display that. From a pure business perspective, it's great for player retention.

Ideally there'd be a ranked and unranked mode too to appease the non-tryhards, but I understand that it can be a population issue. Ranked and Unranked queues would be great for Steam release though.

[Docta Pain]

I choose option #... whatever Opt-Out is. Way better than Opt-In.

[Anachronda]

N I K O L A I, on 19 August 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

Please reset stats after you changed Elo system. I think you should reset stats every 3 months so people can get in better tier if they significantly improve their skill. After that nobody will have problem about showing their skill raiting because they always will have chance to improve it. Like in Starcraft 2 for example.

They set the tiers based on historical data, but you can easily rise in tier just by being good and having your team win, no matter what. So this isn't really a concern - historical performance has no effect on later advancement.

[JonahGrimm]

Soulos, on 20 August 2015 - 03:51 AM, said:

Why hide? I just don't understand. Many, many, many, other games all have public ladders and there's no greifing over it. I suck at SC2, if you look at my ranking you will see that plain as day, so what? Back when I played wow, I had a terrible ranking on the seasonal PvP ladder. Anyone could look up and see how terribad I was. So what? Why are people so scared? If your bad, so what? If your good, so what? Public ladders are also fun! Path of Exile has public ladder system for all thier events. Its a lot of fun seeing if how i stand against the rest of the player base when I race in that game. And if I have a bad race, so what?

Have... we been playing on the same internet? LoL - go start a new account, screw up a game, and see what happens next. WoT? Hell, even Planetside has its nonsense.

I am tired of toxic communities.

[Davers]

Hames, on 21 August 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

No one should know. This will just turn into gear score in wow. "You're a lower tier than me therefore I can dismiss your argument". I find the tier system interesting over the ELO bracket but showing players their assigned number has no upside whatsoever. Legitimate criticisms will be dismissed by people who drive clan mediums and gauss better than the rest of us. Every debate will be filled with " what's your tier bro?". It's a bad idea for us to have access to our number and if you don't see all the harm it will cause then please go back to school and figure your life out.

What exactly are these arguments that are being dismissed?

Poor players shouldn't have a voice in balance decisions because they are poor players.