238 replies to this topic

[NeonKnight]

Roguewolf, on 06 July 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....electric_effect

Get educated before you spout off quotes and diagrams about technology you barely understand. Direct Thermoelectric conversion is not very far off. This takes the radiant and neutron energy coming from a fission or fusion source (or any heat source) and directly converts this energy into electricity. Also, since there are no moving parts, they are compact and work outside of a gravity well. Fission batteries have been used to power Space Probes for decades. In another 100 years (probably a lot less) steam turbine technology will be completely obsolete.

Moral to this story? Steam is obsolete.

And this:

LogicalTightRope, on 06 July 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was lead to believe that the fusion reactors in 'Mechs use magneto-hydrodynamics with a magnetic fluid, being pushed around the generator. Magnetically.

No steam here, sorry fella.

well....colour me corrected.

[Sug]

What is the benefit to being on steam? Yeah for little self starters charging 5-10$ a game steam is great. But MWO is free to download and free to play. So why put it on steam?

Sure they have a huge audience but why not just spend the money on normal advertising?

[Deathz Jester]

BulletChief, on 06 July 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

hopefully none... steam sucks.

+1

[Jumbik]

I personally do not understand this Steam hate. Give me few valid reasons why do you think that Steam sucks.

I do know that the system is not equal in prices for the European players (including me) vs other locations (like Russia f.e. which has crazy promo prices) but as with technical background, I cannot tell a bad word about it.

Please do enlight me about why the Steam sucks so much...

[Traygor Icarion]

BulletChief, on 06 July 2012 - 05:32 AM, said:

hopefully none... steam sucks.

What I think of when people say this.

[Deathz Jester]

Jumbik, on 06 July 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

I personally do not understand this Steam hate. Give me few valid reasons why do you think that Steam sucks.

I do know that the system is not equal in prices for the European players (including me) vs other locations (like Russia f.e. which has crazy promo prices) but as with technical background, I cannot tell a bad word about it.

Please do enlight me about why the Steam sucks so much...

• Steam Download Servers suck, even with high internet speeds.
  
• Overlay functionality is glitchy, flawed, especially when using it with non-steam games it can even cause a ctd
  
• Steam-Wallet is flawed, times purchases haven't gone through, or have been charged double, or download doesn't start at all
  
• Any steam game is only able to be played after it has been updated
  
• Updating system is flawed, sometimes updates dont even download or are slow to download
  
• Valve's anti-cheat system periodically bans people who aren't cheating and their client/or game have glitched
  
• Some games cant even be played in "offline" mode
  
• Its an overbloated version of Origins

[MaxFool]

Roguewolf, on 06 July 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....electric_effect

Get educated before you spout off quotes and diagrams about technology you barely understand. Direct Thermoelectric conversion is not very far off. This takes the radiant and neutron energy coming from a fission or fusion source (or any heat source) and directly converts this energy into electricity. Also, since there are no moving parts, they are compact and work outside of a gravity well. Fission batteries have been used to power Space Probes for decades. In another 100 years (probably a lot less) steam turbine technology will be completely obsolete.

Moral to this story? Steam is obsolete.

LogicalTightRope, on 06 July 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was lead to believe that the fusion reactors in 'Mechs use magneto-hydrodynamics with a magnetic fluid, being pushed around the generator. Magnetically.

No steam here, sorry fella.

NeonKnight, on 06 July 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

well....colour me corrected.

Actually, all of you should have read what I posted before you, http://mwomercs.com/...post__p__523797. While Battlemech fusion engines use magnetohydrodynamics as primary power generator, steam turbines are used as secondary power generator system that also has a cooling effect.

As for the wikipedia link to thermoelectric effect, I fail to see what that does have got to do with Battletech universe.

[Poine]

LogicalTightRope, on 06 July 2012 - 05:55 AM, said:

Steam would be a great thing for this. It'll certainly get a far wider audience, but Russ commented in a thread similar to this saying that at this point, it's kind of a toss-up as to whether they'll use Steam. Sure, it's a great platform and will get the word out, but it comes at a significant cost.


I'm curious here, what's wrong with Steam? I've seen people say this before, but never explain why. I've never run into a problem with it and I use it for most of my games.

well ive heard horror stories of people not being able to play games that were single player games cause they werent connected to internet or getting banned cause they logged in at relatives house then at their house again and were acused of "loaning" their account to a friend but i have about 50 games on steam and ive never had an issue

[Freakiie]

May I ask why people are so obsessed with a big player base?

Imo a large player base is an absolute horror. Why? Because you get tons of people that know nothing about the game, don't care in the slightest about the game and just refuse to learn anything about the game. The kind of players you get in masses when the playerbase grows too large are the type that are playing WoT now. The type where you're wondering whether you are the only human being in a 15vs15 match. The type that doesn't even know what a tank is and simply started playing WoT because there are loads of shiny WoT banners with explosions.

Is that what you all want? Playing 12vs12 with a bunch of drooling zombies? (And not drooling because the game is awesome, but drooling due to a general lack of intelligence) Seeing your atlas charge straight into 12 enemies, die instantly and then flame your team the rest off the match, your Jenner hiding in the corner of your base, because he's an "easy" target, the catapult that decides the team isn't worth his fire support because in his opinion the enemy has a slightly better match up, any kind of mech in general being afraid to get even a single scratch on their mech, so they stand back at max range plinking away with an AC/2 while they got 2 PPCs. two mechs afk at start in every match because they're auto clicking into matches are tabbed out to watch "you know what".

Sorry but that's not what I want. If MWO can run steadily without Steam it should stay as far away from Steam as possible. Playing against Zombies is the main reason I left WoT, I don't want this game to be ruined by the same phenomenon.

[Ray Stantz]

Love Steam! used it for years and have not had even the slightest of problems... I for one hope they do put it up.

[Valorcalls]

Some people need to go reread the OP and make comments based on the edits i made instead of just commenting on the comments from any page they flipped to.

[Todd Lee]

If they want this game to truly succeed, a very large role. Steam brings in MILLIONS of players and has a decent size free to play community (and growing quickly). It would be advisable to put Mechwarrior into Valve's hands to create not only the advertisement needed to get this game out there, but to create and maintain a large community that will foster a steady revenue stream required to keep this game afloat.

As for a Clan release, while I would prefer to see some clan mechs, my understanding is they're following a time line. While I'm not big on lore when it comes to games like this, I guess I can suck it up and wait, but I won't be pre-purchasing the game because of the lack of clan mechs, and MANY other reasons.

Edited by Todd Lee, 06 July 2012 - 01:04 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Dhimmi, on 06 July 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

BUT it is a lot less invasive as a lot of other DRMS on the market...

Do you understand what you said here? "less invasive"?! It shouldn't be invasive at all!!! There is not a video game company or third-party software subscription service on the planet that has ANY RIGHT to my information at all! If I GIVE them information so I can play, that's one thing; if they force software onto my system, sans my knowledge, that is on there for ANY reason than what is absolutely minimally necessary to run the service on my system, then they are in violation of certain anti-trust laws, in the first place, and they are curtailing my privacy. What I do on my computer, what games I have, are NONE of their business.

I understand wanting to keep people from copying your stuff and giving it away, but what's going on is violation of privacy for the sake of finding people who are, typically, smart enough to NOT be found, in the first place, to the detriment of the consumer.

Are you willing to accept this invasion of privacy to play these games? (shakes head and walks away)

I'm done here.

[Lokust]

Iron Harlequin, on 06 July 2012 - 11:59 AM, said:

• Steam Download Servers suck, even with high internet speeds.
  
• Overlay functionality is glitchy, flawed, especially when using it with non-steam games it can even cause a ctd
  
• Steam-Wallet is flawed, times purchases haven't gone through, or have been charged double, or download doesn't start at all
  
• Any steam game is only able to be played after it has been updated
  
• Updating system is flawed, sometimes updates dont even download or are slow to download
  
• Valve's anti-cheat system periodically bans people who aren't cheating and their client/or game have glitched
  
• Some games cant even be played in "offline" mode
  
• Its an overbloated version of Origins

How do Steam's download servers suck? I have 18 megabit/sec internet which is by no means the best, but a lot better than the national average broadband speed of about 6 MB/sec. Any time I download from steam I get about 2.1 megabytes per second, which seems to be dead on for maxing out my connection when you figure megabytes x 8 = megabits, and TCP/IP overhead is about 15% of your overall bandwidth.

I love the overlay functionality and have never had a crash and run everything from new games to very old games

I've had no problems with Steam Wallet and love that I can trade in old console games to gamestop and purchase steam wallet credit with them. It's great for impulse buys of the many excellent indie games, particularly with their impressive sales they run.

I get that the "can't play with an update pending" issue can be annoying, but if you have a fast enough connection to complain that Steam's servers are not fast enough for you, I can't fathom how this can possibly be an issue for you. Also if you have to wait on a game update you can always play or do something else in the meantime. Many of those updates would be required for online play anyway so it would be a moot point in those cases since you'd have to download it to play regardless.

I've never had those sort of issues with the update system.

I've never heard of anyone I know in person or on any forum I frequent getting wrongfully banned by VAC. The very existence of an anti cheat measure encourages me.

I've never had a game that I couldn't play in offline mode.

If you think Steam is more bloated than Origin you haven't logged into each recently....

My only complaint with Steam right now is that Mass Effect 3 wasn't on it, but that's just because EA decided to be tools and make it Origin only, and Origin has been unstable crap for me compared to Steam. So I had to install something like Steam, but worse, just for the 3rd game of a trilogy of which I have the other two on Steam.

Edited by Lokust, 06 July 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[Teirdome]

Adm Awesome, on 06 July 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

Go read my post, Go ask any indie developer, look at all the packs, and the huge list of indie Games, you people keep spewwing this cost nonsense, but no one has provided an arguement to my point. If Steam was expensive, small Indie groups with a tiny budget would NEVER be able to afford to put their games on there, yet for some strange, unasnwerable reason, almost every Indie developer puts their game on there... must be aliens.

You're not comparing apples and apples here.

A small indie game with no server infrastructure backing it can easily go on steam. The only cost to the developer, in exchange for a larger market to share to, is the 30%. As you pointed out, these developers don't have the budget to begin with to be able to advertise their game. Being featured as a "new release" when it's posted on steam is the largest exposure their title will likely ever get. If they're lucky, some people will buy it and move it into the most popular page. Regardless, what the indie developer is effectively doing is trading 30% of their future revenue for marketing and distribution.

This small indie game you reference is entirely different from MWO. For MWO there has to be a large server farm, likely distributed into multiple data centers worldwide. There is operating overhead involved. Additionally, the company actually has marketing resources, while an indie doesn't. For a game that depends on a reliable revenue stream to pay for this overhead, trading 30% for marketing/distribution that PGI can likely do better for less cost does not make sense.

[Hollister]

PGI is already paying a hefty royalty for the cryengine, doubt they want to spend more money on steam which would be a huge gamble.

And gambling in the gaming business can lead to a fast failure.

[Adm Awesome]

Teirdome, on 06 July 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

You're not comparing apples and apples here.

A small indie game with no server infrastructure backing it can easily go on steam. The only cost to the developer, in exchange for a larger market to share to, is the 30%. As you pointed out, these developers don't have the budget to begin with to be able to advertise their game. Being featured as a "new release" when it's posted on steam is the largest exposure their title will likely ever get. If they're lucky, some people will buy it and move it into the most popular page. Regardless, what the indie developer is effectively doing is trading 30% of their future revenue for marketing and distribution.

This small indie game you reference is entirely different from MWO. For MWO there has to be a large server farm, likely distributed into multiple data centers worldwide. There is operating overhead involved. Additionally, the company actually has marketing resources, while an indie doesn't. For a game that depends on a reliable revenue stream to pay for this overhead, trading 30% for marketing/distribution that PGI can likely do better for less cost does not make sense.

that would only make sense if PGI COULD do it for less cost. Then again, since most of the people on this Forum are Veteran, hardcore MechWarrior fans, I don't think they've been doing the best job with it, where Steam would guarentee many people will see the games through their frontpage of the store and the steam store updates that always pop up after you close a game.

Hollister, on 06 July 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

PGI is already paying a hefty royalty for the cryengine, doubt they want to spend more money on steam which would be a huge gamble.

And gambling in the gaming business can lead to a fast failure.

Gambling is how business works in the first place, and it really isn't a gamble at all...

[Gallowglas]

Teirdome, on 06 July 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

This small indie game you reference is entirely different from MWO. For MWO there has to be a large server farm, likely distributed into multiple data centers worldwide. There is operating overhead involved. Additionally, the company actually has marketing resources, while an indie doesn't. For a game that depends on a reliable revenue stream to pay for this overhead, trading 30% for marketing/distribution that PGI can likely do better for less cost does not make sense.

If it were truly that simple, why would you ever see the big dog game developers (Bethesda, Bioware, etc.) putting their games on Steam? Large companies with dedicated marketing budgets and built-in audiences of rabid fans STILL use Steam because it's profitable.

Mind you, I do agree that the profitability calculation math changes when the game itself is F2P, but it's not as black-and-white as some here seem to want to make it.

Edited by Gallowglas, 06 July 2012 - 01:40 PM.

[Hollister]

Adm Awesome, on 06 July 2012 - 01:24 PM, said:

Gambling is how business works in the first place, and it really isn't a gamble at all...

The only people i see gambling these days are those people who know there deck is stacked.

[Corith]

Well i dont think it would be a practical move straight off the bat. As people have stated before the cost is high and for a game starting out that's an unneeded financial burden. However if when MWO has been out for a couple of months its generating a fair bit of money, i think steam could be a good thing for the game.

In a lot of games the population starts to stabilise (or if its bad drop off) a few months in. At this point front page advertisement on steam would give a huge boost in players and maintain growth.

MWO will have its own launcher/server infrastructure so no one would be forced to use steam. I agree that DRM is bad etc. but for a game like MWO steam would likely just act as an advertising platform that reaches a huge number of PC gamers. I cant see whats bad about that!

Edit: Sp

Edited by Corith, 06 July 2012 - 01:39 PM.