47 replies to this topic

[Screech]

I think this is the first step in the removal of weight balancing in the game. Within a year I would imagine that PSR will be the only metric used in the matchmaker. Will be a lot easier to sell this after the Steam release as it will dilute the complaints from the purists.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Screech, on 20 August 2015 - 09:51 AM, said:

I think this is the first step in the removal of weight balancing in the game. Within a year I would imagine that PSR will be the only metric used in the matchmaker. Will be a lot easier to sell this after the Steam release as it will dilute the complaints from the purists.

like you think , 12 urbies can fight 12 DWF ? aha.

[Joseph Mallan]

Titannium, on 20 August 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

like you think , 12 urbies can fight 12 DWF ? aha.

Only if the 12 Urbie Pilots are completely amazing and the Dires are not.

[Rhaythe]

Why do people keep wanting 3/3/3/3 lifted? Is everyone really so obsessed with flying their heavy mechs that they want the game completely one-sided and skewed to make anything under 45 tons irrelevant?

[FupDup]

Rhaythe, on 20 August 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Why do people keep wanting 3/3/3/3 lifted? Is everyone really so obsessed with flying their heavy mechs that they want the game completely one-sided and skewed to make anything under 45 tons irrelevant?

Some of the anti-3x4 people (like me) would rather have it so that mechs under 65 tons would actually be desireable to use on their own merits/effectiveness, rather than creating arbitrary player slots that only certain mechs can fill. Carrots instead of sticks.


It would be like trying to balance Gauss Rifles by saying "We want you to use more Autocannons, so we're going to limit each team to having only 4 total Gauss Rifles across all 12 players, that way you have to use ACs instead of Gauss now!" Or, "We don't want you to laser vomit, so each team of 12 players is limited to 3 laser boat mechs from now on!"

That would be pretty silly, wouldn't it?

Edited by FupDup, 20 August 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[Rhaythe]

FupDup, on 20 August 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

Some of the anti-3x4 people (like me) would rather have it so that mechs under 65 tons would actually be desireable to use on their own merits/effectiveness, rather than creating arbitrary player slots that only certain mechs can fill. Carrots instead of sticks.

Perfectly valid point, and I'm with you. But given the gamemodes we have at present, it's also futile. The current purpose of this game is to shoot red doritos. There is no role warfare. You are rewarded for doing damage, so the more the game skews its numbers to the heavy side, the less use this game has for lighter mechs.

I'm with you, I think. I want a deeper, more purposeful game with roles for each class of mech. But let's be honest. It's been 3 years, and we haven't seen that yet.

[Vlad Ward]

I mean, it really shouldn't be much of a surprise that this is happening.

With the ELO matchmaker, higher level players spent years being penalized by the system for performing well. Teams were assigned based on average elo score, so any high elo players would be balanced out by a number of lower elo players in order to provide a better chance of finding a match.

Essentially: The better you played in the ELO MM, the worse your teammates would be over time. It was a miserable situation, and a very large number of high performing players stopped caring and just started running around in urbanmechs and crap to lower their elo and increase their odds of finding decent teammates. And since this happened long before January 2015, you'll find that a lot of the pre-seeding data doesn't accurately reflect actual pilot skill and matches will be pretty skewed for a while until the system gets enough good data to fix the tiers.

Now that teams are assigned horizontally across a tier rather than vertically with an ideal mean, strong players have a reason to play well and increase their skill ratings. Rather than being forced to carry harder 24/7, higher level players will be matched solely with other higher level players and weaker players will be matched solely with weaker players - the ideal since day 1.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 20 August 2015 - 12:02 PM.

[KraftySOT]

If there was something to do besides shoot gundams, none of this would be a problem.

[Rhaythe]

Rhaythe, on 20 August 2015 - 11:59 AM, said:

Perfectly valid point, and I'm with you. But given the gamemodes we have at present, it's also futile. The current purpose of this game is to shoot red doritos. There is no role warfare. You are rewarded for doing damage, so the more the game skews its numbers to the heavy side, the less use this game has for lighter mechs.

I'm with you, I think. I want a deeper, more purposeful game with roles for each class of mech. But let's be honest. It's been 3 years, and we haven't seen that yet.

KraftySOT, on 20 August 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

If there was something to do besides shoot gundams, none of this would be a problem.

You said everything I tried to in one sentence. You win.

[Drasari]

You can play what you like and have some fun, or worry about that Tier you fit into.

I'm going to play the mechs I wan't if that lowers or raises my Tier then so be it.

[CDLord HHGD]

Joseph Mallan, on 20 August 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

Only if the 12 Urbie Pilots are completely amazing and the Dires are not.

We may not win that fight, but we'll give them hell before we go!

[Rhaythe]

cdlord, on 20 August 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

We may not win that fight, but we'll give them hell before we go!

Pray to god that isn't a stock match, or those mechs will never meet up before the match time expires.

[Screech]

Titannium, on 20 August 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

like you think , 12 urbies can fight 12 DWF ? aha.

No but I do think that 12 DWF vs 12 DWF will be a lot easier to balance once we have one PSR to rule them all. This is just the first step in ditching out role warfare and just stick with the go big or go home. They will call it progress and therefore it is good.

[CDLord HHGD]

Rhaythe, on 20 August 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

Pray to god that isn't a stock match, or those mechs will never meet up before the match time expires.

Stock? In this day and age of MWO?

Oh how I pine for stock matches, but we'd need more time....

Screech, on 20 August 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

No but I do think that 12 DWF vs 12 DWF will be a lot easier to balance once we have one PSR to rule them all. This is just the first step in ditching out role warfare and just stick with the go big or go home. They will call it progress and therefore it is good.

I don't agree. The new PSR takes into account match score which is influenced, in part, by the other things you do like NARC/TAG, and other goodies. Not just KILLKILLKILL.

[Screech]

cdlord, on 20 August 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

I don't agree. The new PSR takes into account match score which is influenced, in part, by the other things you do like NARC/TAG, and other goodies. Not just KILLKILLKILL.

From my limited experience with the new PSR damage is king and everything else comes second. I was also shocked how much cash you can pull in just from damage. Got like 300k in a match just for doing 1k in damage and was dumbfounded.

Now I didn't play with TAG or NARC so I can't compare but are the rewards able really able to compensate that much? If yes won't that just lead to everyone investing 1 ton in TAG just to exploit the cbills till they patched it out like before.

[BigBenn]

I cant stand taking the rubber stamped "meta" mech. I think the only meta mech variant I have is the Griffon "Sparky" with 2 LL and 4 ML. Perhaps the three ERPPC Thunderbolt??? Otherwise, I do my best to keep things more diverse (energy, AC's, and missiles).

I'd rather fight my tail off and lose by a wee bit vs having the best mech and weapons the game has to offer and win easily. No fun with no challenge.

[Raggedyman]

Suko, on 20 August 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

Since PSR went into effect I've been getting nothing but try hard meta in all my matches. If I hadn't been playing the game for the last three years, I'd assume GR, CERML and ISLPL are the only weapons in the game. I heard that they've been tracking the PSR stats since January or something, but did the recent switch over from Elo to PSR throw us into different tiers than we're used to before? I'm hoping so. Either I'm in a different tier than what I'm used to playing in, or a lot of players are running their meta mechs to try and puff up their PSR.

Hang on.... are you saying that people actually want to win their drops??

[CDLord HHGD]

Screech, on 20 August 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

From my limited experience with the new PSR damage is king and everything else comes second. I was also shocked how much cash you can pull in just from damage. Got like 300k in a match just for doing 1k in damage and was dumbfounded.

Now I didn't play with TAG or NARC so I can't compare but are the rewards able really able to compensate that much? If yes won't that just lead to everyone investing 1 ton in TAG just to exploit the cbills till they patched it out like before.

True. Damage and assists will net you far more than anything else, including kills. However, where ELO just looked at win/loss, PSR uses match score which utilizes a lot more detail. Will a NARCer our score a damage dealer? Nope. Does it still affect that player's PSR rating? Yup.

Hoping most of the damage dealers, aka metawarriors, find themselves in their own tier soon enough and I can NARC in relative usefulness.

[KraftySOT]

#winning

[Kassatsu]

BigBenn, on 20 August 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

I'd rather fight my tail off and lose by a wee bit vs having the best mech and weapons the game has to offer and win easily. No fun with no challenge.

That's the thing though. Once everyone in their meta mechs is pushed up to the tryhard tier by the system, they'll generally only go up against others in that tier, maybe one tier lower to fill in some empty player slots, which I imagine there will be a lot of. After all, why play your easy mode left-click-to-win setup when everyone else is doing the same and wins are determined by whoever shoots first?

Should be interesting to see said tryhard tier pushing for e-sports again though. Because that worked out so well in the past with so many other games.