377 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

Aresye Kerensky, on 23 August 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

Wow dude. Look in the freaking mirror.

Btw, what ever happened to your, "VOIP and the impending Lord of the Flies," scenario, where VOIP would bring a game-breaking overload of vulgar, sexual, immature adult behavior?

I only ask because I have yet to hear a single player abusing VOIP in any of the ways you assured us "WILL" happen if VOIP got implemented.

So in the sake of ensuring quality discussion, just wanted to point out that the last time you worked up a storm just like you're doing in this thread, you were 100%, flat out WRONG in what would happen.

Really? My experience, it kinda happened, just not as bad as I expected so I guess that is a good thing. I have had VOIP off since about the first 2 weeks when it started getting filled with profanity, abuse and other garbage. I know more than a few units that tell all their members to turn off VOIP for this and similar reasons.

The fact you haven't experienced it suggests you didn't turn on VOIP or you've been unbelievably lucky or consider what I and several hundred other players intolerable... normal and acceptable.

Edited by Kjudoon, 23 August 2015 - 02:12 PM.

[KHETTI]

Oh look another self-entitlement thread!.
Mixing solo players with small groups is NOT a solution, been there ,done that, wasn't fun.

If people want better quality matches in the group queue, then they have to accept that there has to be restrictions in place.
A 4 man limit would be a good start for a casual group queue, with a comp group queue that would be a choice of running either a 6 man or 12 man.

[Vlad Ward]

Deathlike, on 23 August 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Why has this thread also deevolved into an LRM thread?

There is a reason why the top tier players don't touch LRMs.

While they can be effective AT TIMES, the more aggressive the opfor, the less effective an LRM user is to their team.

That's my bad. I made the mistake of using LRMs as a parallel to this "I don't want to play with groups, you can't FORCE me to play with other people who don't play the game the way I want them to play the game" nonsense.

[Kjudoon]

Deathlike, on 23 August 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

Why has this thread also deevolved into an LRM thread?

There is a reason why the top tier players don't touch LRMs.

While they can be effective AT TIMES, the more aggressive the opfor, the less effective an LRM user is to their team.

yes. Successful whining from a synergy of two special interest, the top end "DISGAMEMUSBESKILLZ" tryhards and the "I hate cover" underhive. that is why they have been overly nerfed. I remember the last nerf that went through happened shortly after Russ played a match and got nuked by LRMs. So we know PGI does at times reflexively nerf things that hurts the top brass. Goons"heart" Paul anyone?

[Vlad Ward]

KHETTI, on 23 August 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Oh look another self-entitlement thread!.
Mixing solo players with small groups is NOT a solution, been there ,done that, wasn't fun.

If people want better quality matches in the group queue, then they have to accept that there has to be restrictions in place.
A 4 man limit would be a good start for a casual group queue, with a comp group queue that would be a choice of running either a 6 man or 12 man.

No, we actually haven't ever had a functional matchmaker with solos and groups mixed together.

People need to get over the scars from Matchmaker 0.73a Alpha Version and realize that there is actual skill based matchmaker, in-game voip, 3/3/3/3 locking, and other significant improvements in the game now.

Also, locking group sizes kills groups. It's awful.

[Deathlike]

KHETTI, on 23 August 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Oh look another self-entitlement thread!.
Mixing solo players with small groups is NOT a solution, been there ,done that, wasn't fun.

I've always thought the problem was primarily...

1) The solo players didn't want to work with the groups (which was common).

2) The solo players didn't KNOW how to work with the groups (which was also fairly common).

3) The solo players often got themselves killed (usually the ones learning to play the game).


To blame it solely on the group is misunderstanding what was the actual cause and problem of the system.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 August 2015 - 02:22 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

Vlad Ward, on 23 August 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

The only players that would ever see SJR, 228, MS-SwK etc in a Mixed Queue would be the absolute best players in the game (Tier 1). Their presence would not have any impact on the other 90% of the game's population at all.

Oh ok you think new MM provide or will provide only balanced matchs ... well you funny.
And PGI will bring back peace all across the world too ? And solve starvation problems in afrika xD

[Deathlike]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

yes. Successful whining from a synergy of two special interest, the top end "DISGAMEMUSBESKILLZ" tryhards and the "I hate cover" underhive. that is why they have been overly nerfed. I remember the last nerf that went through happened shortly after Russ played a match and got nuked by LRMs. So we know PGI does at times reflexively nerf things that hurts the top brass. Goons"heart" Paul anyone?

I think it is "reasonable" to ask for people playing with their own tiers... like Emp playing against SJR frequently would be ideal, but it's kinda also unrealistic to knowing how many comp players there actually are.

The idea that someone in "Tier 1" that would have to "carry" players from "Tier 5" is in itself problematic. It's very difficult for a Tier 5 player to just "grasp" all the "winning concepts" from a Tier 1 player when that person struggles just driving the mech.


For the underhive, I'd rather just repeat "L2P", or the actual useful suggestion of watching good players get cover ALL THE TIME to minimize the effect of LRMs... stuff that you're supposed to learn on your way to getting better (unless, you refuse to get better - in which case, noone can help you). AMS for the most part is "training wheels" in dealing with LRMs IMO, but then again there are people that take crazy high amounts of tonnage never to be used (or just as an explosive device in the own mech).

LRMs still need to be reworked, regardless.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 August 2015 - 02:28 PM.

[KHETTI]

Deathlike, on 23 August 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

I've always thought the problem was primarily...

1) The solo players didn't want to work with the groups (which was common).

2) The solo players didn't KNOW how to work with the groups (which was also fairly common).

3) The solo players often got themselves killed (usually the ones learning to play the game).


To blame it solely on the group is misunderstanding what was the actual cause and problem of the system.

The problems you highlighted were/are true in a lot of cases, but you are streamling the problems and not including others.
The system of mixing the two is just a nightmare to balance and best just kept seperate.
Unfortunately having no restrictions of group sizes and mixing it all together, also just doesn't work, once players accept this and go for grouping with restrictions in place, they will see a vast improvment in match quality.

[Idealsuspect]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 23 August 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

Yeah Im a total waste of tonnage



probably a thousand dollars easy, you?

In fact when you check your team damage you can see 3 guys who get good or greats score damage 400 - 700.. thoses 3 guys have only 1 kill for 3.
Most others LNW guys have very low damage score 50 - 300 and didnt pass the 300 damage barrier ...

What happend in fact ? Thoses 3 guys carry your team, thoses LNW did nothing for real and YOU with your lrms boat and finish or stole the 7 kills still alive at end.... but with 12 players like you, hiding and lrming behind teamate without any pinpoint damage you think you will always win xD?.

Nice screenshot... i am still lauching xD.
And funny to think some people keep theirs records screenshoots ... i should do this i will have my screenshoots with 10 kills with 1500 in a FS small pulse laser ( dont need people spot for me ) or 11 kills in a K2 AC40 ( can't kill the 12th i had not enought ammo this time and still don't need people spot for me ^^ )

PS : 600 pinpoint damage by a direwolf are 5x more helpfull than 1500 damage spread with lrms....

Edited by Idealsuspect, 23 August 2015 - 03:02 PM.

[Deathlike]

KHETTI, on 23 August 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

The problems you highlighted were/are true in a lot of cases, but you are streamling the problems and not including others.

There aren't that many others (I'm talking about the vast majority of what actually happened, unless there's something else that I'm not accounting for).

Quote

The system of mixing the two is just a nightmare to balance and best just kept seperate.

I don't think it's impossible... I'd rather have opt-in with C-bill bonuses for solos that want to play with groups.

In theory, if you have a high Elo player (back when Elo was a thing), inserting a high Elo player into a team that has a lower average Elo (not too significant a difference, hopefully) would be sufficient as the higher Elo player is more likely to play better in a team environment, instead of a lower Elo average team which probably won't be on the same page.

It's not impossible, but you'd have to be extremely selective.

Quote

Unfortunately having no restrictions of group sizes and mixing it all together, also just doesn't work, once players accept this and go for grouping with restrictions in place, they will see a vast improvment in match quality.

Not all restrictions are the same or good IMO. What is guaranteed to work better more often than not are people/solos willing to opt-in and try to work with small+big groups in order to get better... separating those that don't want to (either because they feel like they must solo because they aren't good enough, or reasons beyond my understanding).

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Imperius, on 23 August 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

1450 DMG with LRM's congrats you barely helped kill anything.

I see you didnt even read the rest of the stats SEVEN KILLS

Wouldnt expect you to see anything more than you want to lol

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 23 August 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[Kjudoon]

KHETTI, on 23 August 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

Oh look another self-entitlement thread!.
Mixing solo players with small groups is NOT a solution, been there ,done that, wasn't fun.

If people want better quality matches in the group queue, then they have to accept that there has to be restrictions in place.
A 4 man limit would be a good start for a casual group queue, with a comp group queue that would be a choice of running either a 6 man or 12 man.

The competitive group queue is called CW. They're mad nobody wants to get punched in face anymore there and went to the group queue. So the predators went off hunting where the prey is and wrecked that queue, so many retreated to the solo queue.

The next retreat is out the door and then Imperious will be right, the game will fold.

Forcing solo players to play with the people that have wrecked their gaming experience is like parents suing a school to force other people's kids to be beaten up by a gang of bullies on the playground because their precious little thugs are bored and can't find anyone to "play" with them any more.

[Vlad Ward]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

The competitive group queue is called CW. They're mad nobody wants to get punched in face anymore there and went to the group queue. So the predators went off hunting where the prey is and wrecked that queue, so many retreated to the solo queue.

The next retreat is out the door and then Imperious will be right, the game will fold.

Forcing solo players to play with the people that have wrecked their gaming experience is like parents suing a school to force other people's kids to be beaten up by a gang of bullies on the playground because their precious little thugs are bored and can't find anyone to "play" with them any more.

Who are the "They" you're talking about?

The vast majority of the groups that fled CW for the group queues are the ones that got stomped, not the ones doing the stomping.

You've constructed this bullcrap narrative with nothing to back it up. There isn't a single major unit or large unit player posting in this thread (bar that one guy from CWI who made that one cool post earlier). Most of them don't even bother reading the underhive that is General Discussion.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 23 August 2015 - 02:46 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Idealsuspect, on 23 August 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

PS : 600 pinpoint damage by a direwolf are more helpfull than 1500 damage spread with lrms....

The guy that kills 0 ppl is more useful than the one that kills 7...

ok youre high

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 23 August 2015 - 02:46 PM.

[Deathlike]

Kjudoon, on 23 August 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

The competitive group queue is called CW. They're mad nobody wants to get punched in face anymore there and went to the group queue. So the predators went off hunting where the prey is and wrecked that queue, so many retreated to the solo queue.

The next retreat is out the door and then Imperious will be right, the game will fold.

Forcing solo players to play with the people that have wrecked their gaming experience is like parents suing a school to force other people's kids to be beaten up by a gang of bullies on the playground because their precious little thugs are bored and can't find anyone to "play" with them any more.

Demonizing the comp groups really don't make your argument hold.

The thing about the people queuing up solo are usually those that were hoping to gain the mechbay bonuses for the factions that are temporarily aligning with (due in part of the poor NPE), but weren't really prepared or ready to face other teams.

It's more of a skill/knowledge gap that many solo players don't know how to gain... and in some cases don't want to gain. The game really doesn't teach you much about focus fire, and regrouping together ASAP... basics that even the basic veteran of this game is aware of.

The problem is still at PGI's feet... blaming the comp players strictly is not understanding how unqualified many players that normally queue up in solo CW or solo non-CW matches are bad off in the current environment.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 August 2015 - 02:53 PM.

[Mycrus]

Imperius, on 23 August 2015 - 08:15 AM, said:

Just curious how much have you invested into the game? I'm curious to see how much you solo only/ casual players fund the game.

Our unit has been extremely casual since they destroyed group play the first time. We don't get rolled in matches either, so I'll call that a lie. Just the constant BS group boogie man story. It really just boils down to group queue is too hard for you.

Big talk because what you bought a goldie?!

[Idealsuspect]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 23 August 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

The guy that kills 0 ppl is more useful than the one that kills 7...

ok youre high

Without this dire and his 600 pinpoint damage you will never get thoses 7 stole

[Mycrus]

Idealsuspect, on 23 August 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Without this dire and his 600 pinpoint damage you will never get thoses 7 stole

Dire? Bah humbug... try basic medium lazor cicada...

[Idealsuspect]

Mycrus, on 23 August 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

Dire? Bah humbug... try basic medium lazor cicada...

What the point of this ? you were with the lrmings guy in his match ? or just wanna show a screenshot?

( nice ping )