26 replies to this topic

[PappySmurf]

After 3 years the mechs are still made of butter to easy to kill I don't get the feel of a big stompy mech that can take and give huge amounts of damage over a reasonable time period per battle. The nay Sayers will come on owe yes its fine blahh blahh blahh its just you but its not.

To be honest I still play MechWarrior4 Mercenaries Mektek mod competitively every week with 20-100 players on gameranger and the mechs in MechWarrior4 move correctly and outlast MW mechs by a 5-1 margin.


If you don't believe me go test this yourself by comparing your TTK in battles between the 2 games.MW4 mechs feel like I'm playing MechWarrior in so many ways and MWO mechs don't feel the same. Plus in MechWarrior4 I can play with my analog joystick and it works perfectly.

Don't get me wrong I like MWO always have I just cant accept the fact Russ/Brian made it into a FPS/COD/WOT E-sport wannabee game and not a true MechWarrior/Battletech game with a new MSN gamming Zone a vibrant social community and private leagues and a MechWarrior4 Multiplayer style private launcher system with every MP option MW4 had.

Can MWO be fixed sure will the Devs listen I don't know probably not but my days of playing are going home back to MechWarror4 Mercenaries on gameranger and less and less time playing MWO and after 20+ years with this MechWarrior IP/TT/Battletech it not my fault RUSS/Brian its yours that I cant fall in love with MWO just like I did all those old PC MechWarror games.

Edited by PappySmurf, 24 August 2015 - 07:19 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Agreed!

Its ******* ridiculous that some mechs cant tank any damage while some lights can tank damage for days.

[Aresye]

For 1v1, MWO has a longer TTK than MW4 had.

I blame the 2x armor values and convoluted heat scale that rewards high alphas. It practically necessitates focus fire, which creates a wider skill gap between teams that know how to focus fire and will demolish, and teams that don't know how to focus fire and get rolled.

[Spleenslitta]

Fact is there is so much they could have done to create longer TTK instead of that halfassed Ghost Heat . Examples-

- Remove convergence on torso weapons. Some players don't like that but it's still an alternative.
Demands more skill to do things effectivly too.

- Reintroduce ammunition explosions (now it's 10% chance to explode) so that there are fewer AC/LRM boats.

- Reactor/engine produces energy and can only store so much at one time. Everything you do demands energy including-
* Movement. Faster movement requires more energy but not more than you can produce per second.
* Shooting weapons. Energy weapons demands more energy.
* Cooling down. The heatsinks demands more energy the hotter your mech is.
* ECM, BAP, MASC and JJ demands energy when used.
* Torso/arm twist requires very little energy. Next to nothing.
If this happend the learning curve would skyrocket but it would increase immersion and TTK. It would also encourage variation and moderation in weapon loadouts.
Those that want to can still boat missiles/ballistic weapons but with increased chance of ammunition explosions that might not be a good idea.
Especially if heat can cook off the ammo.

[NephyrisX]

Aresye Kerensky, on 24 August 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

For 1v1, MWO has a longer TTK than MW4 had.

I blame the 2x armor values and convoluted heat scale that rewards high alphas. It practically necessitates focus fire, which creates a wider skill gap between teams that know how to focus fire and will demolish, and teams that don't know how to focus fire and get rolled.

Still better than MW4 multiplayer, where boating is super encouraged and makes the TTK in MWO look glacial.

[Dino Might]

Spleenslitta, on 24 August 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

Fact is there is so much they could have done to create longer TTK instead of that halfassed Ghost Heat . Examples-

- Remove convergence on torso weapons. Some players don't like that but it's still an alternative.
Demands more skill to do things effectivly too.

- Reintroduce ammunition explosions (now it's 10% chance to explode) so that there are fewer AC/LRM boats.

- Reactor/engine produces energy and can only store so much at one time. Everything you do demands energy including-
* Movement. Faster movement requires more energy but not more than you can produce per second.
* Shooting weapons. Energy weapons demands more energy.
* Cooling down. The heatsinks demands more energy the hotter your mech is.
* ECM, BAP, MASC and JJ demands energy when used.
* Torso/arm twist requires very little energy. Next to nothing.
If this happend the learning curve would skyrocket but it would increase immersion and TTK. It would also encourage variation and moderation in weapon loadouts.
Those that want to can still boat missiles/ballistic weapons but with increased chance of ammunition explosions that might not be a good idea.
Especially if heat can cook off the ammo.

If I had the option on how to change the routine alpha vomit, it would be changing how lasers work. Make lasers a purely DPS weapon with burn duration based on how long the trigger is held down. Heat will rise as a function of burn time. I'd say make damage linear and heat exponential. No cooldown time except if weapon gets overheated (each weapon has its own heat scale). Can always adjust the numbers to balance each weapon.

It would be a heck of a lot more difficult to pair massive laser alphas with ballistics if you were focused on manipulating how long you want to burn your lasers. If you macro it, you would simplify the pilot input but restrict your capability. Good balance for whichever way you want to play. If you want to run 7 medium lasers, fine, but you'll still be trying to manipulate your burn time to manage it with the overall heat and the weapon heat.

Making lasers continuous DPS would require more facetime but give them increased damage potential over time, making laser boats less able to pop out of cover, shoot for a split second and back into cover to cool off (effectively negating the heat penalties).

[Spleenslitta]

Dino Might, on 24 August 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

If I had the option on how to change the routine alpha vomit, it would be changing how lasers work. Make lasers a purely DPS weapon with burn duration based on how long the trigger is held down. Heat will rise as a function of burn time. I'd say make damage linear and heat exponential. No cooldown time except if weapon gets overheated (each weapon has its own heat scale). Can always adjust the numbers to balance each weapon.

It would be a heck of a lot more difficult to pair massive laser alphas with ballistics if you were focused on manipulating how long you want to burn your lasers. If you macro it, you would simplify the pilot input but restrict your capability. Good balance for whichever way you want to play. If you want to run 7 medium lasers, fine, but you'll still be trying to manipulate your burn time to manage it with the overall heat and the weapon heat.

Making lasers continuous DPS would require more facetime but give them increased damage potential over time, making laser boats less able to pop out of cover, shoot for a split second and back into cover to cool off (effectively negating the heat penalties).

I have a hard time to decide whether i like this idea when it comes to gameplay or not.
But i gave it a "like" because balance wise it's a very good idea.

[PappySmurf]

Grisbane is right nephrisX if you played on the MekTek servers for NHUA=no heat unlimited ammo your TTK was very short in MechWarrior4.But if you played in regular heat and limited ammo games your TTK per mechs was 5-10 times longer than a MWO mech it all depended on your skill in that mech with that load-out.

If you played MechWarrior4 in a stock or pure-tech=IS or Clan load-outs only league your TTK in a MW4 mech was quite long up to 10+ minutes depending if you got killed or ran out of ammo and went in and suicide by letting your opponent get a kill.

So this is why I'm tired or Playing MWO=NHUA=E-Sport=MOBA games and will only play MechWarrio4 until they decide to fix MWO back into a decent tMechWarrior or BattleTech game.

Which also means I'm pulling my $USD support also.

[Gattsus]

PappySmurf, on 24 August 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

After 3 years the mechs are still made of butter to easy to kill I don't get the feel of a big stompy mech that can take and give huge amounts of damage over a reasonable time period per battle. The nay Sayers will come on owe yes its fine blahh blahh blahh its just you but its not.

To be honest I still play MechWarrior4 Mercenaries Mektek mod competitively every week with 20-100 players on gameranger and the mechs in MechWarrior4 move correctly and outlast MW mechs by a 5-1 margin.


If you don't believe me go test this yourself by comparing your TTK in battles between the 2 games.MW4 mechs feel like I'm playing MechWarrior in so many ways and MWO mechs don't feel the same. Plus in MechWarrior4 I can play with my analog joystick and it works perfectly.

Don't get me wrong I like MWO always have I just cant accept the fact Russ/Brian made it into a FPS/COD/WOT E-sport wannabee game and not a true MechWarrior/Battletech game with a new MSN gamming Zone a vibrant social community and private leagues and a MechWarrior4 Multiplayer style private launcher system with every MP option MW4 had.

Can MWO be fixed sure will the Devs listen I don't know probably not but my days of playing are going home back to MechWarror4 Mercenaries on gameranger and less and less time playing MWO and after 20+ years with this MechWarrior IP/TT/Battletech it not my fault RUSS/Brian its yours that I cant fall in love with MWO just like I did all those old PC MechWarror games.

I blame the clan medium laser.

[PappySmurf]

Gattus said=(I blame the clan medium laser. )

Whatever dude you know I'm right.

[Sarlic]

How come you still can't quote? Do you have javascript or any sort disabled? Make sure to allow Googles API aswell.

[Coolant]

PappySmurf, on 24 August 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

After 3 years the mechs are still made of butter to easy to kill I don't get the feel of a big stompy mech that can take and give huge amounts of damage over a reasonable time period per battle. The nay Sayers will come on owe yes its fine blahh blahh blahh its just you but its not.

To be honest I still play MechWarrior4 Mercenaries Mektek mod competitively every week with 20-100 players on gameranger and the mechs in MechWarrior4 move correctly and outlast MW mechs by a 5-1 margin.


If you don't believe me go test this yourself by comparing your TTK in battles between the 2 games.MW4 mechs feel like I'm playing MechWarrior in so many ways and MWO mechs don't feel the same. Plus in MechWarrior4 I can play with my analog joystick and it works perfectly.

Don't get me wrong I like MWO always have I just cant accept the fact Russ/Brian made it into a FPS/COD/WOT E-sport wannabee game and not a true MechWarrior/Battletech game with a new MSN gamming Zone a vibrant social community and private leagues and a MechWarrior4 Multiplayer style private launcher system with every MP option MW4 had.

Can MWO be fixed sure will the Devs listen I don't know probably not but my days of playing are going home back to MechWarror4 Mercenaries on gameranger and less and less time playing MWO and after 20+ years with this MechWarrior IP/TT/Battletech it not my fault RUSS/Brian its yours that I cant fall in love with MWO just like I did all those old PC MechWarror games.

Agree mostly with OP's points except for TTK. MW4 Mercs + Mektek was the greatest game I ever played. I didn't even realize there were still people playing it. I got a new hard drive cause the last one failed and I can't find where to download MW4 at all. Glad you and others are still playing it. I had some of the most fun I've ever had in gaming in MW4. MW4 had soooo many server options and the fact that one could run own servers was a big reason why it was so enjoyable. Heck, just running a server was almost as fun as playing in one. Private Matches will probably never = the fun of being able to run a server and have anyone online be able to join it.

Not sure if you are playing respawn, but that is what made MW4 fun. It would be a solution to the TTK in MWO cause you would get a new mech. Can't believe there are those that would rather spectate someone else then actually get to play a whole match as no one lives to the end of every single match.

Edited by Coolant, 25 August 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[PappySmurf]

Coolant you can still get a MekTek free copy as it generates its own new CD key when installed just talk to Cmeg or CYT on GameRanger to get set up again.

I truly wish MWO had been MechWarrio5 after a 10+ year wait and 3 years of trying to like this game I cannot. In fact I don't even know why I'm wasting my time posting still on these forums as the Devs never read the topics and posts and the Mods just ban whoever disagrees with MWO in general.

[Juodas Varnas]

PappySmurf, on 25 August 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

I truly wish MWO had been MechWarrio5 after a 10+ year wait and 3 years of trying to like this game I cannot. In fact I don't even know why I'm wasting my time posting still on these forums as the Devs never read the topics and posts and the Mods just ban whoever disagrees with MWO in general.

[Vellron2005]

I'm preety shure that if the mods actually banned those who talk smack about MWO, these forums would be dead..

Myself included.

I do not agree with the PGI business model, but also, as someone who has not really poured much money into the development of this game (my account stands at around 14$), I think that I don't get much say anyway.

However, I think that with a sharp turn in design and business strategy, this could be a great game. I wholeheartedly support further development, and hope I will be able to contribute financially.

But it will most definatelly never be for a 120$ mech pack. That's just str8 crazy.. I ain't that rich.

I hope that next year, we will have PVE, a bigger player base, and a worthwile CW.

if not, I'll probably play something else...

Edited by Vellron2005, 26 August 2015 - 01:38 AM.

[TwentyOne]

Aresye Kerensky, on 24 August 2015 - 08:01 AM, said:

For 1v1, MWO has a longer TTK than MW4 had.

I blame the 2x armor values and convoluted heat scale that rewards high alphas. It practically necessitates focus fire, which creates a wider skill gap between teams that know how to focus fire and will demolish, and teams that don't know how to focus fire and get rolled.

It was much harder to hit targets in MW4, and large scale battles almost always lasted ALOT longer.

[TwentyOne]

Dino Might, on 24 August 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

If I had the option on how to change the routine alpha vomit, it would be changing how lasers work. Make lasers a purely DPS weapon with burn duration based on how long the trigger is held down. Heat will rise as a function of burn time. I'd say make damage linear and heat exponential. No cooldown time except if weapon gets overheated (each weapon has its own heat scale). Can always adjust the numbers to balance each weapon.

It would be a heck of a lot more difficult to pair massive laser alphas with ballistics if you were focused on manipulating how long you want to burn your lasers. If you macro it, you would simplify the pilot input but restrict your capability. Good balance for whichever way you want to play. If you want to run 7 medium lasers, fine, but you'll still be trying to manipulate your burn time to manage it with the overall heat and the weapon heat.

Making lasers continuous DPS would require more facetime but give them increased damage potential over time, making laser boats less able to pop out of cover, shoot for a split second and back into cover to cool off (effectively negating the heat penalties).

MW4 had continuous lasers, they where fun.

[Namouche]

plus on MW4 you could create a battle with 120 mechs, with dropships inbound and landing, create fortress lined with calliope turrets and then invite a friend to join the battle in your private server.
Heck, once I designed a battle between dropships only.
You could set the AI for each mech, turret or vehicle (dropships, tanks,jeeps, etc), so some were elite, other rookies, some elite with crippled aimsights, etc. Lots of fun exploring the mekeditor.
Back to the topic, in my opinion pinpoint is to blame. there is a reason for weapons max range:firing beyond that range was ineffective, not for the damage but for the aim.

[Gattsus]

more lazor burn/cycling time would be a solution(?) 10-20% maybe?
get lazor max range reduced(?) -> though this will mainly hurt IS.

Edited by Gattsus, 26 August 2015 - 02:57 AM.

[Kh0rn]

I think it has a lot to do with the total freedom of the mech lab. Mechs swapping things in and out at free will with out any draw back or consideration for the purpose of that mech or variant. Also the twitchy nature and lack of less mobile nature I.E making mechs feel heavy and move like its a walking tank could also be causes. Reduced rate of fire could be another. But I think its two main things how the Mechs in MWO don't really feel heavy or move like tanks. And the total freedom of the mech lab will always throw every nerf or buff attempt out the window because you can just change it on the fly.