274 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

TLBFestus, on 02 September 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

OK..don't ban me for this, but you have to admit what you said is unintentionally funny;

"In fact, we aren't deleting the posts, we are removing them for further investigation(see earlier reply to Vlad above)"

Yeah, it is a bit, but c'mon! as I said, still trying my best >o<



A word of advice:

I'd like to keep this thread on-track, that means no discussing moderation, no personal attacks, and no Harassment. None of that.

If you can do that, you won't have to deal with your posts being removed/deleted or others reporting you.

Thanks!

-Scout Derek

[Yellonet]

Winterburn, on 01 September 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

You are under heavy influence of totalitarian leftist media, I am afraid. Being "constructive and positive" is overrated, it is not an effective communication tool and it does not build character. If people with my attitude get our way the world would be a much better place than it is now.

I do not behave like a scumbag, because it's Internet. I do not behave like a scumbag at all, if you come to think of it. People can talk to me any way they want unless they stoop to outright insults, and I return the favor. But I do not like being chided by complete strangers for a certain behavior, which they do not find "nice enough". Giving obscure reasons why "your way" is better for the community just adds insult to injury.

I never meant that you were a scum-bag, sorry if that was what it looked like.

It must be a difference in culture then, because everyone I know certainly responds better to constructive criticism and a generally positive attitude (positive feedback) rather than negative comments on why they are bad or wrong or just plain idiots.
When people get hostile and unfriendly towards me I ignore them, they don't get listened to, easy as that.
Positive feedback or constructive criticism is in no way, shape or form accepting everything someone throws at you.
It's only a matter of how you deal with it and how you communicate what you want.

[KraftySOT]

Totalitarian leftist media?

How did I miss that hilarity. Wheres my popcorn...

[Scar Glamour]

I did not take offense and I did not take it as an insult. Just trying to say that "having my attitude" is not the same as "behaving like a douchebag".

It is not a cultural perspective, really. It is a matter of circumstance. When you study in school or get a life lesson from a family member positive feedback matters, because you seek approval from the people surrounding you. You expect them to treat you in a certain manner, be kinder and gentler. Although there is still place for a stern word or punishment from time to time.

When you are talking about team sports or an army, the coach or sargeant do not treat you with utmost respect and positive reinforcement. They don't do it because they are ******** (although it can very well be the case), but because this approach works better. It also builds spirit and psychological resilience. If you don't have those things you will not succeed in any competitive environment.

In the heat of battle you do not try to explain in detail, for instance, why friendly fire is bad. You simply say, "watch your ****** fire!" There's nothing wrong with that, the message is clear enough. No wonder quite a bit of that attitude rubs off on people when they communicate on the forums.

[KraftySOT]

To be fair, its both behaving like a douchebag, AND effectively trying to get your point across, thats been colored by years of one systemic point of view.

Something can be more than one thing at once.

[KraftySOT]

Take the old comedian Lenny Bruce for example. Douchebag.

Also took on the US supreme court to fight for his and for your right to be a douchebag. He's a great, well educated, hilarious, and accomplished individual (or well was). Also a boozing hop head douchebag. (not that theres anything wrong with that.)

You CAN be a douchebag. Its ok. People can totally judge you for it. Its alright. Thats their right. If they want to ban you from a game, thats their right too. I dont think its the right course of action when dealing with douchebags, but hey, its not my game.

But dont be a douchebag, then say youre not a douchebag. Thats worse than being a douchebag. Not that theres anything wrong with that.

A heck of alot of people think "saying what I feel" doesnt make them a douchebag. Well, it does, if what you feel, makes you a douchebag. Your feelings and thoughts, can totally make you a douche. Sharing them can make you a bigger douche. But youre not being minimized or trivialized just because youre a douche. Its ok to be a douche. Be a douche. Love your doucheyness. But simply "telling it like it is" that gruff and "shoot it from the hip earl!" persona, does not give you some ornate magical bubble that allows you to suddenly not be judged.

Judge and prepare to be judged. Thats how everyone on earth discovers their own moral truth, and can make moral judgements. Judging the actions of others.

Edited by KraftySOT, 02 September 2015 - 10:09 AM.

[Scar Glamour]

KraftySOT, on 02 September 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Judge and prepare to be judged. Thats how everyone on earth discovers their own moral truth, and can make moral judgements. Judging the actions of others.

You might want to check that powdered sugar you put on your popcorn. It just might be crack *******. Either that or you really need a level-up in effective communication.

[KraftySOT]

Its your quarter. Tell it to the high Queen of douchebags:

http://aynrandlexico...l_judgment.html

Quote

The precept: “Judge not, that ye be not judged” . . . is an abdication of moral responsibility: it is a moral blank check one gives to others in exchange for a moral blank check one expects for oneself.

There is no escape from the fact that men have to make choices; so long as men have to make choices, there is no escape from moral values; so long as moral values are at stake, no moral neutrality is possible. To abstain from condemning a torturer, is to become an accessory to the torture and murder of his victims.
The moral principle to adopt in this issue, is: “Judge, and be prepared to be judged.”

Its alright. Being a douche is your right as a human being. Just like being male, or gay, or tall, or left handed. You shouldnt be excluded from things or trivialized because of who you are, what you are. However, if you act, physically act, morally act, you can be judged. Not because youre a douche, but because you have acted.

Which is why its ridiculous to ban someone from a game for being a douche. Its their right, its their game, but it doesnt help anything. There will always be more douches, and douches spend money too. (look at Abercrombie). Theyre not physically or morally acting, theyre just being a douche with their speech. Judge them as douches and move on. If they threaten someone, or physically act in the world, or break a law, sure, ban them, arrest them, whatever.

Edited by KraftySOT, 02 September 2015 - 10:21 AM.

[Yellonet]

Winterburn, on 02 September 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:

I did not take offense and I did not take it as an insult. Just trying to say that "having my attitude" is not the same as "behaving like a douchebag".

It is not a cultural perspective, really. It is a matter of circumstance. When you study in school or get a life lesson from a family member positive feedback matters, because you seek approval from the people surrounding you. You expect them to treat you in a certain manner, be kinder and gentler. Although there is still place for a stern word or punishment from time to time.

When you are talking about team sports or an army, the coach or sargeant do not treat you with utmost respect and positive reinforcement. They don't do it because they are ******** (although it can very well be the case), but because this approach works better. It also builds spirit and psychological resilience. If you don't have those things you will not succeed in any competitive environment.

In the heat of battle you do not try to explain in detail, for instance, why friendly fire is bad. You simply say, "watch your ****** fire!" There's nothing wrong with that, the message is clear enough. No wonder quite a bit of that attitude rubs off on people when they communicate on the forums.

I see nothing wrong with anything of that.
I'm just saying that people ought to not let their in-game attitude pass over to the official game forums.

If I were PGI I would not listen to:
"FU PGI! With feature X you just made this game even worse...",

But I might listen to:
"PGI, the recently introduced feature X has yadayada... and so I think it may be better to... yada yadaa..."

I really don't get how can this be so controversial.

[KraftySOT]

One of those statements speaks to the mood of the issue, the other speaks to the specifics. I think theyre both valuable.

How do you make a statement like "Youre on an island"?

You ignore all the "FU PGI!" posts, and listened to the one single reasonable complaint. If there is a litany of "FU PGI!" about an issue, and a few serious criticisms, you might want to take both statements into account. It tells you two things. People are pissed. People have ideas.

Im completely convinced its possible to not be a douche oneself, yet still listen to and respect the opinions of douchebags. Theyre people too.

I like to fancy myself not a total douchebag. But I have nothing against douchebags. If someone wants to scream and use profanity to get their point across, have at it. Ill still listen to it so long as im not getting spittle in my mouth. You cant do anything in this world without coming in contact with, and even needing the help of, douchebags. Its just life. On the internet theres this idea that you can create this virtual 'wall' to keep douchebags out, and you simply cant. Theyre integral to society. If you banished all the douchebags, there would be like 6 guys sitting there in Vindicators never being able to get a game. Society would fall apart because theres no more government, police, taxi drivers, ceos, or app designers.

Edited by KraftySOT, 02 September 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Scar Glamour]

Oh, I did not realize we are having a discussion on immature tantrums like that. By all means, throwing a fit has never helped anyone. These people are simply obnoxious and lacking any kind of communication skills.

But critizing someone for their behavior whether on forums or ingame (not really talking PGI here at all, I absolutely love all of their game design and marketing decisions) is one's inalienable right, as KraftySOT has so aptly pointed out a few posts above. And I prefer to do it without any sugarcoating.

[KraftySOT]

Throwing hissy fits helps people every second of the day, all across the world. Have you missed the last 35 years?

And yeah I certainly dont blame you for your lack of sugarcoating, if thats how you want to roll, roll on. If someone wants to be polite, be polite.

I try to walk a fine, but sometimes humorous line between totally obscene, and classy as fuuuh.

Edited by KraftySOT, 02 September 2015 - 10:34 AM.

[Scar Glamour]

KraftySOT, on 02 September 2015 - 10:31 AM, said:

Throwing hissy fits helps people every second of the day, all across the world. Have you missed the last 35 years?

Obviously, I mean "help anyone" as in "get things done" and not "get someone to do things for you". That's why reasonable people find that throwing a fit is appropriate for toddlers and not so much for older individuals.

[Yellonet]

KraftySOT, on 02 September 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

One of those statements speaks to the mood of the issue, the other speaks to the specifics. I think theyre both valuable.

How do you make a statement like "Youre on an island"?

You ignore all the "FU PGI!" posts, and listened to the one single reasonable complaint. If there is a litany of "FU PGI!" about an issue, and a few serious criticisms, you might want to take both statements into account. It tells you two things. People are pissed. People have ideas.

Im completely convinced its possible to not be a douche oneself, yet still listen to and respect the opinions of douchebags. Theyre people too.

I like to fancy myself not a total douchebag. But I have nothing against douchebags. If someone wants to scream and use profanity to get their point across, have at it. Ill still listen to it so long as im not getting spittle in my mouth. You cant do anything in this world without coming in contact with, and even needing the help of, douchebags. Its just life. On the internet theres this idea that you can create this virtual 'wall' to keep douchebags out, and you simply cant. Theyre integral to society. If you banished all the douchebags, there would be like 6 guys sitting there in Vindicators never being able to get a game. Society would fall apart because theres no more government, police, taxi drivers, ceos, or app designers.

Not being sarcastic, but maybe you're a better listeners than most, because I don't think you're in a majority if you really accept and listen equally to everyone no matter how they talk to you or about your work that you've invested lots of time and effort into.

[KraftySOT]

If it works it works. If it werent for hissy fits, we'd still be in caves. Some guy was like "f this ****, im gonna build a shelter", and all his friends were like, "nah bro, youre stupid, stay in here or we'll bash you", and he cried, and whined, and complained, and mouthbreathed his way into a banishment.

Next winter, he's got two hos and a shack, and everyone in the cave was eaten by a bear.

Never underestimate the creativity and drive of lazy people. Just because they dont want to do what you want to do, doesnt make them people who want stuff done for them, they just dont want to do your stuff.

It works both ways.

I saw a meme recently that was like "50s US working for a living" and then had a picture of a guy digging a ditch...then "2015 US working for a living" and it was this insanely complicated list of like 10 things you can do to live for free without digging a ditch.

Now. Someone might say, look how we've collapsed, look how the douchebags have ruined everything.

To me, I see a bunch of really smart creative people who just outsmarted the hell out of the system because ditch digging is lame as fuuuh. If you can set up a fake GPS location and shell family, to get yourself 1900 a week in welfare, you sir are #winning at life, not losing.

This is why I just judge actions. On their own merits. Whatever background you come from, whatever your genetics are, whatever your goals, in life, youre alright. Youre worth something. Up until you harm another person. When you physically hurt someone, or trap someone, or violate their rights, thats when theres a problem.

It makes things really easy. Do what thou will. Harm no one.

Yellonet, on 02 September 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Not being sarcastic, but maybe you're a better listeners than most, because I don't think you're in a majority if you really accept and listen equally to everyone no matter how they talk to you or about your work that you've invested lots of time and effort into.

Nope. Definitely not in the majority. It should be the prevalent way of dealing with your fellow meatsacks, but it isnt.