74 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

<background>

I like ECM... I like being able to sneak around players without them seeing me. I like not having throws of LRMs raining down on my light-mech from some try-hard button-masher. When they came out with the Arctic Cheetah, I liked it even more -- it was a firestarter that was much easier to position behind the enemy. I leveled my way up the game in a Raven 3L and Spider 5D, the Griffon 2N and the Cataphract 0x just added more variety. That's not to say that I exclusively play ECM, I love my Huginn even more for getting behind people -- it just takes way more effort to sneak up on people. With the recent event I have played my Panther's and realized that I play better when I don't have ECM to rely on. I think more about my position and my tactics and are less likely to run off blind. I found that If I always kept my mind on where cover was, I could easily avoid LRM spam thanks to Radar Dep. When playing AC's I really didn't think that ECM was that big of an issue -- when fighting them I began to realize how cheesy ECM can be.

<The question>

Should ECM just be dropped from the game like a sack of dead fish?

While I like ECM I think it would be better for the game if it were removed entirely -- just gone overnight. There are enough counters to LRMs now -- that there would only be LRM nuttiness in the lowest tiers -- and I think the steering-wheel drivers would actually like to endlessly press the "ALL THE MISSILES" button. The mechs that use ECM now are just fine on their own without it (remember to compare apples to apples i.e. a 5D without ECM is still more effective than a 5K or 5V.)

(I would have made a poll but apparently I am not special enough to do that)


_____________________ edit _______________

I specifically said to remove it because removing ECM would be a lot easier than the 1,000,000 types of reworks that have been postulated 1,000,000 times to make it, missiles, artemis, etc,etc more in line with BT.

Edited by nehebkau, 29 August 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[FupDup]

I'd like for ECM and the items that relate to it (i.e. BAP) to have a soft-counter relationship instead of hard-counter...but that won't happen, because we can't have nice things.

Another side-issue for Lurms in particular is that you can only get locks if you have a red dorito, which is the main mechanism that ECM uses to cancel out Lurms...if we could get locks just by LoS without needing a dorito, then Lurms would no longer be pooped on so hard by the Jesus Box.

[Mystere]

I like the gut wrenching reaction its existence gives players. I use it as a troll weapon, first are foremost.

Edited by Mystere, 29 August 2015 - 09:33 AM.

[SolCrusher]

I say just remove ECM, it's been a game breaker for soooo long. If not at least let Artemis allow locks when you have Line of Sight on an ECM mech.

[Duke ramulots]

LRM indirect fire would have to go as well and why would we want that?

[Mazzyplz]

it has always been a crutch,
glad the OP realized by himself

[LordKnightFandragon]

Or change the MM to allow 1 or 2 ECM mechs per side, or, rather, remove ECM off anything but lights. Since, well, lights are supposed to be the scouts.

RIght now we have multiple mechs in every weight class packing ECM...its like massive ECM overload, everyone and thier cat has it....Its no wonder it seems so OP. And yet I still have seen posts about people wanting a ECM on X mech...what? that one Cataphract even got one..../facepalm.

Toss in the fact that mechs like the HBR have 3? 4? variants, all with ECM, just makes it even worse.

Problem is just ECM overload, not ECM itself. If there was just 1 or 2 ECM per side, it wouldnt be so bad, but right now its DDC, Cataphract, HBR, MLX, KFX, IFX, Commandos, Ravens, this mech, that mech, all loaded down wtih ECM, cant noone lock on to anything and yeah.....

[Mystere]

LordKnightFandragon, on 29 August 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Or change the MM to allow 1 or 2 ECM mechs per side ...

This is a slippery slope that I don't want the game to pursue. Or will players be in favor of a forced 4xL/5xM/2xH/1xA drop composition?

[Kodyn]

ECM's not all that hard to deal with, unless you're a LRM boat who decided for some odd reason to not carry TAG + BAP.

I think losing it would be the crutch.

For reference, I keep about 1 ECM mech in my bay, kitted out, to 3-4 non ECM mechs, so I play both with equal frequency. Never do I feel godlike and unstoppable in my 3L, PB, or 5D, nor do I ever find ECM on the other team a game-breaker...

You don't need paper dolls to know where to shoot an enemy mech if you're familiar with hitboxes, and if you play smart, ECM's no more terrible to face than smart enemies who simply use cover intelligently.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mystere, on 29 August 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

This is a slippery slope that I don't want the game to pursue. Or will players be in favor of a forced 4xL/5xM/2xH/1xA drop composition?

Really, 2 lights is more then enough, dont need 4 mechs to do the scouting.

2L/4M/4H/2A would be better.

And if this game took a more tactical appraoch to gameplay, where coordination, scouting, playing as a smart, coordinated team was the way to play, then a mech class limit would work alot better. Right now though, no, I dont think a limit would work to well, its just grab a fast heavy with high hardpoints and spam the alpha strike button. Coordination, scouting, none of it really matters. Maps are designed to force us into a trio of choke points anyway, no need to scout. And even being an assault just makes you a big target. Not the tanky leader your supposed to be.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 29 August 2015 - 09:47 AM.

[Mystere]

LordKnightFandragon, on 29 August 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

Really, 2 lights is more then enough, dont need 4 mechs to do the scouting.

2L/4M/4H/2A would be better.

Not all lights scout. Some form bloodthirsty wolf packs.

[Alistair Winter]

The game is pretty simple as it is. It wouldn't improve by stripping away layers of complexity, such as they are. They just need to be fundamentally reworked. It's kind of like how SSRMs were nerfed to the point of being useless for a while. They're still pretty bad for Inner Sphere mechs. This didn't strictly help the game a lot, it just limited our arsenal instead of fixing the problem.

Even if you remove ECM from the game, the Information Warfare aspect is still terribly underdeveloped.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Mystere, on 29 August 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

Not all lights scout. Some form bloodthirsty wolf packs.

Arctic Cheeters? I havent played this game in a few months, so I know nothing about that.

[Mystere]

It's getting off topic but ...

LordKnightFandragon, on 29 August 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

Arctic Cheeters? I havent played this game in a few months, so I know nothing about that.

I was referring to the "interesting" drop compositions before 3/3/3/3 was conceived: light wolf packs, Steiner lances, missile fire teams, etc.

[Rebas Kradd]

Something something tactical gameplay something something four pillars something something Paul.

[Screech]

The Cult of the Dorito is strong.

[Summon3r]

such a simple fix, bring in angel and guardian ECM suites and c3 targeting................. wait nvm nothing simple about it seeing as they cant even click a few buttons to have Pauls vaunted 90m ecm bubble a thing and not just blah blah

[FupDup]

Screech, on 29 August 2015 - 10:01 AM, said:

The Cult of the Dorito is strong.

In the land of the blind teammates, the man who controls the red doritos is king.

[Yellonet]

ECM is great and should stay as it is, I know we're getting 90 m range but that's OK.
I don't find ECM to be bad for the game, rather the opposite because then it takes some teamwork to target the enemy and be able to rain death upon them.
People who want to remove ECM probably just doesn't know how to deal with it.
Get close, then your sensor will burn through. Use BAP. Get teammates to target for you.

[Coralld]

This is the way ECM should work...

- As it does now, ECM should counter Artemis and Streaks as that's one of the things it does indeed suppose to do.
- Increase lock and scan time as it currently does.
- Prevent target info sharing and can only be targeted by LoS, unless being countered by Tag, BAP, Counter ECM, or UAV.
- Increase incoming missile spread by X%.
- LRMs can lock onto ECM as long as LRM mech has LoS, or if the ECM mech is being countered by Tag, BAP, Counter ECM, and UAV.

This would go a long way to keep ECM useful but prevent it from being the OP Jesus Box it currently is.

As it stands now, ECM acts like Angel ECM + Stealth Armor but with out the drawbacks of the Stealth Armor as these special armor type takes up 12 crit slots, 2 crit slots in each arm, leg, and side torso. It also increase heat by 10 points when active.
The only benefit the current ECM does not give that ECM + Stealth Armor does is hide the mech from Thermal.