96 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Have you not kept up with RHOD, MLMW, or MRBC at all?

I meant competitive with regard to ALL gamemodes. Not just skirmish. If all you play is skirmish then yeah the direwolf is pretty damn good. But if you play other gamemodes or CW the lack of speed becomes a HUGE detriment.

If you limit yourself to just playing skirmish yeah then all direwolves all the time. But in the broader scope of the game speed becomes a lot more important. And the Executioner isnt as bad when speed becomes more of a factor.

Skirmish is pretty much the worst gamemode in MWO anyway. Because it puts a huge bias on heavier mechs while giving lights and mediums very little to do.

Edited by Khobai, 01 September 2015 - 08:50 PM.

[Deathlike]

Khobai, on 01 September 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

I meant competitive with regard to ALL gamemodes. Not just skirmish. If all you play is skirmish then yeah the direwolf is pretty good. But if you play other gamemodes the lack of speed becomes a huge detriment.

You know at the highest levels... that even Conquest is Deathmatchv3?

[FupDup]

Is appears as though he has officially gone full derp.



Never go full derp...

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

As far as CW is concerned, so long as the ACH has total supremacy over clan in effect it's still a 100t mech.

The best 4-slot drop deck is probably EXE/SCR/SCR/ACH, which lands 5 tons underweight. The only real option it gives you over a Dire Wolf, is upgrading one SCR to a Mad Dog. Otherwise you can dump the ACH to a Mist Lynx and trade an ACR for a Hellbringer.

And what are you really gaining from that? A Dire Wolf is the unequivocal firepower king. The Executioner is 95t of armor that has the firepower of a heavy and is kind of fast, sometimes.

I'd contend that for tonnage efficiency, the Gargle is better, because it can drop with a pair of Hellbringers and an Arctic Cheetah. YMMV

Edited by vnlk65n, 01 September 2015 - 08:56 PM.

[Deathlike]

vnlk65n, on 01 September 2015 - 08:55 PM, said:

I'd contend that for tonnage efficiency, the Gargle Timberwolf is better, because it can drop with a pair of Hellbringers and an Arctic Cheetah. YMMV

Fixed for you.

[Ultimax]

Khobai, on 01 September 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

any competitive match worth playing is going to have special restrictions though. It would be completely dumb to allow a team of 12 direwolves.

If the DWF isn't competitive, why are you suddenly assuming people would bring 12 of them if there were no restrictions?


Wouldn't they automatically bring the most powerful mech in the game?

Edited by Ultimatum X, 01 September 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[Ultimax]

Khobai, on 01 September 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

I meant competitive with regard to ALL gamemodes.

No, that's not what you said.

Khobai said:

Direwolf isnt really a comp-level mech IMO.

[Poisoner]

Khobai, on 01 September 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

any competitive match worth playing is going to have special restrictions though. It would be completely dumb to allow a team of 12 direwolves.

Do you even play on a comp team?

[Nightshade24]

Ultimatum X, on 01 September 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

Good write up.


The only thing I'd add is that the LA mounts are nice because that arm is shorter than the RA (and therefore a touch higher) and the energy weapons don't mount starting on the bottom (baffling).



Here's an example of the slotting order:






The obvious downside is that it has fewer E hardpoints.


The LT has MASC, so going left side build allows you to at least shield that - OTOH the D RT has the 2x E mounts so many builds end up right side biased.

instead of that: why not simply put them ON the empty space? ie:

Executioner A, all those E hardpoints are in the arm in a Zeus style "missile" format. It overall tightens the lasers grouping and raises most of the E hardpoints without destroying beautiful arm of the Executioner prime or the Executioner A's arm.

Simular was for the Executioner D

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Nightshade24, on 01 September 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

instead of that: why not simply put them ON the empty space? ie:

Executioner A, all those E hardpoints are in the arm in a Zeus style "missile" format. It overall tightens the lasers grouping and raises most of the E hardpoints without destroying beautiful arm of the Executioner prime or the Executioner A's arm.

Simular was for the Executioner D

Because that's an intelligent thing to do.

[STEF_]

I love Deathlike notes.

I bought 3 HGN during thier last sale, and then I started to level them one month ago, and here is what happened:


I falled in love, bought them all, and mastered all.
I also wrote a pseudo-love-guide, here:
http://mwomercs.com/...-love-for-them/

I bought 4 Executioner, and I have them from 06/16, this is their grind levels:



I also sold one.


Without many words, here my 2 cents:
- exe has the same free tonnage of a timber, which is few for an 95 tons assault, but:
- it has far worse hardpoint locations, except a few in the torsi,
- far worse hitboxes (of any other assaults, too, imo)
- slower, even with masc engaged

With that said, even the Garg gives more fun to me, because I can "use" that 89 kph speed and have fun:


Yep, about the exe, some builds can works:
gauss+bunch of ml
laserbuilds.

But, guys, for me, no fun at all.

[Nightshade24]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 01 September 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

Dude... what?

Seriously?

Have you not kept up with RHOD, MLMW, or MRBC at all?

In my mind there are 3 tiers of Clan omnimechs instead of hte IS 5 tiers.

tier 1- mechs that are quite good all round and match the IS top end mechs.
(Timberwolf, Stormcrow, Arctic Cheetah, etc)
tier 2- mechs that are okay but not the best, useless in some game modes and/or can have games can easily (for enemy) under 100 damage.
(Direwolf, Hellbringer, shadowcat, kitfox, executioner)

tier 2.5- same as above but in between 2 and 3. sometimes collapse them in same list
(warhawk, adder, ice ferret)

Tier 3 - bad mechs that you would be lucky to get 200+ damage in
(gargoyle, summoner, mist lynx, etc)

Why do I not think direwolf is top end?

CW it is useless unelss your team nearly revolves around you and for what it does in CW it would be better to drop the tons to prevent a useless mist lynx in your line up

Normal play? nascar is nearly guaranteed death for the direwolf. Every time nascar occurs it's always the direwolf that dies. not the gargoyle, not the mist lynx, not the summoner, not the machine gun urbanmech. but always the direwolf if there is one.

If it is meta comp tier- then why is it one of the least played clan mechs in some events ie tukayiid? Why are direwolfs the most often to die in regular games durring things like NASCAR if they are so good? Why can even the worst of light mechs easily beat the direwolf in a 1 vs 1 but not an atlas, stalker, warhawk, or executioner?

1 of the main points of meta is high firepower that is pinpoint and preferred to be instant, high hardpoints, ECM, jumpjets (on heavies and under), etc. that's the rough perimeters. Another one is being good in most situations. Rather that be on a map of lava or snow, close range or med-long range, etc. Direwolf is to situational for me and quite a few people to think of it as meta- it is just like calling the hellbringer meta just for the soul fact it can carry ECM better then a kitfox. take the ECM off and it struggles to compete with some mechs like the gargoyle.

[STEF_]

also: 95tonner vs 95tonner




(when a single image is like 1000 words)

[Nightshade24]

Ultimatum X, on 01 September 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

If the DWF isn't competitive, why are you suddenly assuming people would bring 12 of them if there were no restrictions?


Wouldn't they automatically bring the most powerful mech in the game?

Spam works well. remember the people crying the locust was OP back when there was no 3/3/3/3 rule and you can find 8 locusts on the same team sometimes? sometimes it was 5 or 4 for the first week or so...

I once had a team of 12 9xflamer hunchbacks once before 3/3/3/3 and they obliterated the enemy with what was then one of the worst medium mechs in game with the worst weapon in game.

Theb33f spammed 12 kingcrabs with only guass rifles- which even heavies could do but in this case most of the tons went to durrability and ammo as they went through all 4 waves of enemy mechs without 1 lost.


people would bring 12 of them simply for the SAKE of bringing 12 of them and in any form of co ordination is used 12 Gauss urbanmechs will be as deadly as 12 timberwolfs because finishing the game 3 seconds earlier will not feel any better/faster/ or quicker.

[Hit the Deck]

Deathlike, on 01 September 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

...
While it honestly doesn't make the mech a speed demon (because it's still going bloody slow),...

BTW, Alex shouldn't have drawn/designed the EXE's right elbow like what we have now because it's what makes the RA hardpoints situated far away from the cockpit:

[Nightshade24]

Stefka Kerensky, on 01 September 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

also: 95tonner vs 95tonner




(when a single image is like 1000 words)

2 completely different roles of mechs.

Would be the same as compairing the osiris with a urbanmech, or a spider to a arctic cheetah... also what is wrong with the exe's arm?

[STEF_]

Nightshade24, on 01 September 2015 - 10:29 PM, said:

2 completely different roles of mechs.

Seriously?
Are you talking about lore and such?
Explain, please.

Because, as far as I know, the only role we have in mwo is to kill mechs.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Deathlike, on 01 September 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

Fixed for you.

Yes you can distill any drop deck down to the 'best'.

It was purely for sake of argument that the Garg brings a more well-rounded drop deck, since that's the mech it seems to be getting compared with.

[Nightshade24]

Stefka Kerensky, on 01 September 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Seriously?
Are you talking about lore and such?
Explain, please.

Because, as far as I know, the only role we have in mwo is to kill mechs.

even though direct lore and role performance on battlemechs is not that important for the IS battlemechs.

ie charger with 5 small lasers, 80 tons, standard 400? give it 5 large lasers and a medium pulse, and a Standard 325 instead!
or Catapult K2 is a PPC sniper? I would use it as a duel AC 10 brawler now.

etc... however roles and default stuff is typically inforced in MW: O, Using a Catapult as a SRM brawler instead of an LRM brawler isn't the best of things to do as those large ears, or the raven being good for spotting due to the high missile hardpoint, sleak design, and ecm.

But it's a bit more fixed for clans... can't remove JJ, masc, engine, some heatsinks, etc. Gargoyle will still be a fast charger- like mech that is made to push through enemy lines. (which it does best atm en mass), Warhawk will always be a heated mech build because cold builds suffer due to all the hardwired Heatsinks, shadowcat is still a long range support mech, Timberwolf is still a multiranged mech. Mad dogs still be Missile carriers and such, etc.

roles kinda stick quite well on the clan mechs due to the hardwiring.

fast fire support mechs will still be fast fire support mechs
long range support mechs will still be long range support mechs
strikers be strikers
snipers be snipers.

For clans it sticks out like like a red thumb.

Banshee can mimic a little bit of a executioner (highlander does it better with less firepower and mobility) but the executioner main strength comes from the mobility, agility, and speed that comes from it's big engine, MASC, and jumpjets.
Executioner can get to places a banshee can only look at, Executioner isn't prone to death as much as the banshee unless the banshee has something like a XL 400 and prays that no harsh terrain gets in the way and the banshee can't do the sheer amount of energy weapons an executioner can do (or missiles, or energy+ ballistic capabilities. etc)

[Duke Nedo]

One detail that's nice to add is that the EXE-D left arm has full actuators, making is very useful as shield arm since it transfers full arm mobility to your right weapons arm!