170 replies to this topic

[Bilbo]

Livewyr, on 02 September 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

Considering PGI removed the ability to create polls... how was there supposed to be a consensus on anything? Hard to hammer out an agreement when you do not have the tools to start with...

Huge oversight? Diabolical plot? You decide.



I'm guessing you read too hastily to catch this part:
"I've offered comprehensive suggestions to tackle all of these issues. I've seen dozens, if not hundreds of reasonable suggestions for fixing these issues-..."

You can't make polls in the Feature Suggestions forums anymore?

[Livewyr]

Bilbo, on 02 September 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

You can't make polls in the Feature Suggestions forums anymore?

We tried, it was deleted for "not being appropriate topic."

[Bilbo]

Livewyr, on 02 September 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

We tried, it was deleted for "not being appropriate topic."

Huh, that does suck then.

[Pjwned]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 September 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

Does that address any of the points I made, or the OP, even? I'm pointing out flaws in the allegations. Don't shoot the messenger.

Most people do agree that. Not what is being discussed.

And I'm pointing out that the message seems to say "you should all firmly agree on something and then ECM will be properly adjusted," which is dumb because like I said it's not the customers' job to balance the game. I don't know if Russ (or Paul) actually is waiting for a super majority agreement on what to do about ECM, but if they are then it's stupid.

Quote

Also, as for who job it is.....the sainted Forumites in question insisted, along with their cult of jocksniffers, they could do it better. Russ called them out on it.

They probably could do a better job addressing a number of issues considering PGI's stance of "make vague promises and work on critical issues at a sub-glacial pace." Doesn't mean I actually want those players to have any sort of authority, it just means PGI needs to get their ass in gear.

Here's hoping that mech re-balance is actually good because very little is known about it and PGI sure is taking their time implementing it, like usual, though maybe that will mean it actually turns out good for once.

[Mystere]

Livewyr, on 02 September 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

I had a much longer, much more venomous post written up, but the browser crashed... how fortunate.

So here you are ...

[Livewyr]

Well, wife is home and we are going out to eat.

It's been fun, and thank you all for your patronage.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 02 September 2015 - 02:44 PM, said:

To be fair, that was DOA before anything was discussed.

Just think about it for a moment as it would only give PGI "validity" in saying "you don't even know what you wanted".

Didn't that actually do so even before it even got started?

[Mcgral18]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 September 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

Guessing you weren't getting enough action ranting on Reddit? Could always go back to playing Star Citizen I suppose.....oh ....wait

Bishop, you realize Star Citizen already has the same depth as MWO?

Shooty Stompy Robot arena VS Shooty Swooshy spaceships.

Although, you can also race. Or play some PVE. You can also go down to the bar and dance.


In MWO PTS, you can glimpse at your Mech from ground level as you switch, while you can land in Star Citizen, jump around on it, and view it from any angle.



Just putting it into perspective...that isn't a very good argument.

[Xetelian]

This game has two things that I want.

Mech vs Mech action
Mech building

So far we're on the right track. It is in the details that this game loses a lot of its muster. Lights suck with 10% of the queue making queues longer for everything else.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 02 September 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

ECM does need addressing (some people think it's fine, which is their opinion - while there's still a large section of people who don't even understand how it works and the interaction... far outweighing those that think it's OK IMO).

I'm not even sure what the comps think of ECM, outside of "being a scrub" if you aren't taking ECM in an ECM capable meta-mech.

ECM does not need addressing, especially not at this moment. Long missing and incomplete features need to get topmost priority.

[Nightshade24]

Quirks: reducing variarity since 3050!

pre:
Hunchback 4G: a worse version of the Hunchback 4H and obsolete in every way to it
Hunchback 4H: a worse version of the shadowhawk and obsolete in every way to it.
post:
Hunchback 4G: better at AC 20 in your face brawling like it did stock
Hunchback 4H: better at AC 10 medium range support and in your face brawling like it does stock
Shadowhawk: better at sniping and using it's missiles like it did lore wise.


pre:
Locust is worse version of commando
commando is worse version of spider
Spider is worse version of panther
panther is worse version of jenner
jenner is worse version of raven 3L
raven 3L is worse version of firestarter.
post:
Locust is a fast hit and run harraser with small lasers, small pulse lasers, and a few mediums, srm 2's, or machine guns
commando is a fast spotter with good hand at SRM's and small work with lasers, ie medium pulse, large, medium, etc.
Spider is now a good jumpjeting platform for use of lasers and/or ballistics. Panther is the king of large energy mounts in the IS, with PPC's, ER PPC's, AC 2's, 5's, 10's,etc.
Jenner is... WIP
Ravens are a quick scout that can pack a hefty load of energy mix SRM's.
Firestarter is .... WIP

pre:
this nova arm with 1 energy is just as useless as the one with 12 energy
post:
yay! they are different now besides simply being better or worst.




mah creativity! it is destroyed!

Mcgral18, on 02 September 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

Bishop, you realize Star Citizen already has the same depth as MWO?

Shooty Stompy Robot arena VS Shooty Swooshy spaceships.

Although, you can also race. Or play some PVE. You can also go down to the bar and dance.


In MWO PTS, you can glimpse at your Mech from ground level as you switch, while you can land in Star Citizen, jump around on it, and view it from any angle.



Just putting it into perspective...that isn't a very good argument.

technically saying we already have PvE on the test client and in the main game soon?

[Slepnir]

@the OP.

Is it any wonder why I find MWLL a more enjoyable and complete game?

All the twitch counterstrike/COD e-sports players will hate it because it's a simulator for battletech with consideration for things like mass, inertia, sway, no mechlab meta, and huge maps,

in fact the only thing MWO does better is graphics because it's on a newer engine.

[Vlad Ward]

The thing about ECM is that the majority of people who want it tweaked are people who are upset with the way it interacts with LRMs and SSRM.

I don't think they realize that this interaction, and its resulting meta-nerf of LRMs and SSRMs is intentional and any change they make will never, ever result in a net gain for LRMs.

People like to think of MWO as some sort of TT amalgamation; a strategy game. Or at least they desperately want it to be a strategy game, and balanced like one. But it's not.

MWO's an FPS. It's balanced like an FPS.

Weapons that require precise mouse movement and aim/tracking will perform the best when used by players who are capable of using them well.

Weapons that don't require precise mouse movement or aim/tracking will perform worse, and will be handicapped in such a way that they can't perform as well at mid to high levels of play. They're a crutch designed for weaker/newer players who want to be able to contribute to their team even if they can't actually hit anything with non-hitscan ballistics and can't track targets effectively with long burn time lasers.

LRMs are MWO's version of the Titanfall Smart Pistol. It's cool for beginners, but an experienced player is going to gib you with their assault rifle before you finish getting your first lock.

Now this is usually the part where the mecha-badasses come in to defend the obscene level of skill and experience it takes to effectively use LRMs in their blah blah blah blah blah.

Not interested.

This is the paradigm PGI has decided LRMs fall under. It's how they were designed from beginning to end. There's no good way to change this now without scrapping the whole system and redesigning from the ground up (Hint: This Will Not Happen).

I'm waiting for MRMs to release for missiles to be competitive.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 02 September 2015 - 03:43 PM.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 02 September 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

ECM does not need addressing, especially not at this moment. Long missing and incomplete features need to get topmost priority.

I think it ranks @ the top considering how Information Warfare is very binary. It has to be revisited even if it isn't the first thing to be fixed/addressed.

The Magic Jesus Box is very anti-NPE (well, more anti-newbie).

Edited by Deathlike, 02 September 2015 - 03:46 PM.

[KharnZor]

I've often wondered why mrm's aren't already in game.

[Davegt27]

I could not find the video of a team on TS knocking down 1 mech (watch all the parts)

this is what i found

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 02 September 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

Bishop, you realize Star Citizen already has the same depth as MWO?

Shooty Stompy Robot arena VS Shooty Swooshy spaceships.

Although, you can also race. Or play some PVE. You can also go down to the bar and dance.


In MWO PTS, you can glimpse at your Mech from ground level as you switch, while you can land in Star Citizen, jump around on it, and view it from any angle.



Just putting it into perspective...that isn't a very good argument.

IDK..think it makes the point well, since SC was in development actually BEFORE MWO, though the kickstarter was later. And only has what...10-20x the budget.....and as you say...is about as deep as big big horrible MWO.

Huh. Go figure.

[Vlad Ward]

KharnZor, on 02 September 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

I've often wondered why mrm's aren't already in game.

Lore buffs would riot. It's a 3058 weapon. Current timeline is 3052.

Direct fire mid-range missiles have the potential to be pretty awesome, though. I'd take a reskinned Clan UAC and call it a day at this point.

Davegt27, on 02 September 2015 - 03:48 PM, said:

I could not find the video of a team on TS knocking down 1 mech (watch all the parts)

this is what i found

You mean Goons Heart Paul?

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 September 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

IDK..think it makes the point well, since SC was in development actually BEFORE MWO, though the kickstarter was later. And only has what...10-20x the budget.....and as you say...is about as deep as big big horrible MWO.

Huh. Go figure.

The actual difference is that one game is actively calling itself an Alpha (or was it Beta, I have no clue). The other one... is a "full release" (since 2013), despite having alpha-beta level quality functionality.

That's even before we discuss money.

[Pjwned]

Vlad Ward, on 02 September 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

The thing about ECM is that the majority of people who want it tweaked are people who are upset with the way it interacts with LRMs and SSRM.

I don't think they realize that this interaction, and its resulting meta-nerf of LRMs and SSRMs is intentional and any change they make will never, ever result in a net gain for LRMs.

People like to think of MWO as some sort of TT amalgamation; a strategy game. Or at least they desperately want it to be a strategy game, and balanced like one. But it's not.

MWO's an FPS. It's balanced like an FPS.

Weapons that require precise mouse movement and aim/tracking will perform the best when used by players who are capable of using them well.

Weapons that don't require precise mouse movement or aim/tracking will perform worse, and will be handicapped in such a way that they can't perform as well at mid to high levels of play. They're a crutch designed for weaker/newer players who want to be able to contribute to their team even if they can't actually hit anything with non-hitscan ballistics and can't track targets effectively with long burn time lasers.

LRMs are MWO's version of the Titanfall Smart Pistol. It's cool for beginners, but an experienced player is going to gib you with their assault rifle before you finish getting your first lock.

Now this is usually the part where the mecha-badasses come in to defend the obscene level of skill and experience it takes to effectively use LRMs in their blah blah blah blah blah.

Not interested.

The problem with this line of thinking is that it completely ignores the multiple downsides that LRMs already have without factoring in ECM.

Quote

This is the paradigm PGI has decided LRMs fall under. It's how they were designed from beginning to end. There's no good way to change this now without scrapping the whole system and redesigning from the ground up (Hint: This Will Not Happen).

Nope, it doesn't require a huge rework at all because all that needs to happen is to tone down ECM so that it's not a ridiculous jesus box that also hard counters an entire weapon system, and then both LRMs and ECM will be fine.

Quote

I'm waiting for MRMs to release for missiles to be competitive.

MRMs would definitely be nice.