42 replies to this topic

[zagibu]

Jamming mode only protects your team-mates, not yourself. Two ECM mechs in overlapping AoEs are both unprotected.

[Pjwned]

How about it only affects the mech equipped with ECM.

That makes a lot more sense, and then also tone down the protection it gives so that it doesn't prevent locks.

Wow, it's almost like that would be kind of balanced.

[kesmai]

Angel. Guardian.
solved.

[Scar Glamour]

Simple change indeed. The question is hwhy?

[Radbane]

Besides the fact that there's been a huge inflation of ECM capable mechs, and there's just to many ECM's out there right now, the biggest issue for me is that they do 3 things at once. They cover to many mechs, they prevent locks, and when countered with Tag or UAV they still slow down locks way to much.

Painting a fast light who has ECM and radar deprivation with TAG? ... good luck getting that lock ever.

I say do one of the following:
- Let ECM only cover the ECM mech
- Let ECM stop locks, but not slow them down when countered
- Don't let ECM stop locks, but make them slow down

[Scar Glamour]

Making the cover bubble 90 m is the way to go, not making ECM mechs easy pickings.

[zagibu]

Pjwned, on 03 September 2015 - 12:12 AM, said:

How about it only affects the mech equipped with ECM.

That makes a lot more sense, and then also tone down the protection it gives so that it doesn't prevent locks.

Wow, it's almost like that would be kind of balanced.

No, it makes less sense and would remove the teamplay aspect completely. Let's not dumb down everything, okay?

Winterburn, on 03 September 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

Simple change indeed. The question is hwhy?

Because ECM is too good at the moment. With this simple change, it would still be good, but more of a teamplay item.

Edited by zagibu, 03 September 2015 - 10:09 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Radbane, on 03 September 2015 - 05:41 AM, said:

stuff

Painting a fast light who has ECM and radar deprivation with TAG? ... good luck getting that lock ever.

stuff

Pretty sure it was determined a long time ago, trying to "lock" just fast moving Lights was a waste of time. Trying to against ECM and RD toting units is simply self inflicted "folly"

Better to "counter" that ECM and then try and find that oft hard to find "R" key and see if that brings rain or not.

Edited by Almond Brown, 03 September 2015 - 10:59 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

Just remove it's cloak completely. Have it counter Artemis, Narc, within a bubble radius, and incre Givincreasethe time it takes in which to lock, also add a 25% info gathering penalty. If the unit has bap, and targets the ecm, it doesn't have any penalties.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Or could make it so that when an ECM mech fires its weapons, it disables ECM or increases their visibility range significantly for a set amount of time.

Hot target > ECM

[ApolloKaras]

Mister D, on 03 September 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

Or could make it so that when an ECM mech fires its weapons, it disables ECM or increases their visibility range significantly for a set amount of time.

Hot target > ECM

Good idea, but I would worry about it impacting HSR, giving the server one more thing to keep track of.

[Mystere]

Meh! My old rule still works for me: see suspected ECM Mech, kill suspected ECM Mech.

[ApolloKaras]

Mystere, on 03 September 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Meh! My old rule still works for me: see suspected ECM Mech, kill suspected ECM Mech.

On Forest Colony or Viridian Bog that gets slightly more complicated.

[Mystere]

Saxie, on 03 September 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

On Forest Colony or Viridian Bog that gets slightly more complicated.

The number of players who do not know how to switch ECM modes makes that less complicated than you think.

[Pjwned]

zagibu, on 03 September 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

No, it makes less sense and would remove the teamplay aspect completely. Let's not dumb down everything, okay?

So, it makes less sense for a piece of equipment on your mech to affect literally everybody except you, rather than the other way around.

Cool story.

Quote

Because ECM is too good at the moment. With this simple change, it would still be good, but more of a teamplay item.

That's the territory of A-ECM, not G-ECM which is what we're supposed to have here but instead we get the jesus box.

[Lykaon]

Honestly ECM and other support electronics need a complete overhaul.

ECM should ONLY do the following.

Counter BAP,NARC,Command Consoles,Artemis FCS.

Increase the time to aquire locks on targets covered by ECM

Increase the time to aquire critical target data on targets covered by ECM

ECM counter mode ECCM should disrupt any opposing disrupting ECM within range of the counter ECM.

Then we can do the following.

Add in mech sensor signature ratings.This determines how far away a mech can be detected by an enemy mech based upon it's signature value. This will be tied to the mech's chassis size mostly but other effects can be accounted for.

An example would be a Locust will have a very low signature only being detected when the locust is within 750m (just a random example number no hard values ) While an Atlas will be detected at 1000m. ECM on board a mech may reduce it's signature further but only on the mech with the ECM equiped.

Next we reintroduce the passive and ative sensors mechanics from previous mechwarrior games.If you don't kow how this works here is a breif breakdown.

Active sensors scan at the maximum range the sensors have (800m).While in active sensor mode your mech is detected by other active sensors at it's normal maximum detection range (enemy mechs will see you at 800m away).

Passive sensors reduce your sensor range to a fraction of it's max range but also reduce the range enemy sensors will detect you.So for an example passive mode reduces your max sensor range by 50% (400m) but also reduce the range you will be detected by enemy sensors by 50%.

Now we fix the Active probes to be an actual active probe.

Active probes will detect any enemy within it's front scanning arc and within the active probe's range even if that target is otherwise concealed.

Active probes decrease the time to aquire locks and critical data on scanned target by a set percentage.

Active probes exstend sensor range by a set percentage.This effect directly translates into a mitigating factor when detecting passive sensor mechs or mechs with low signature values (an Active probe lets you see them better)

Active probes increase your mech's signature while they are active and do not function if passive sensor mode is engaged.

Active probes no longer counter ECM.ECM instead counters an Active probe.

An Active Probe and an ECM can be used in tandem.

Active Probes can be toggled on/off.

NARC missile Beacon

NARC will no longer counter ECM.

Increase in NARC projectile speed.

Command consoles:

Allow multi target lock.A mech with a command console can lock up to three targets.

A Command console allows the user to set team waypoints on the battle map that are visable to all team mates on their HUD (to use this function the user must also be company commander).

A Command Console can set a barrage waypoint that can be targeted by LRMs. (this is an iffy option not sure about how it can be coded or if it's needed)

A Command Console allows the user to assign priority target status to a single locked on target.This priority target is highlighted on all friendly mech HUDs with a flashing target icon.

Command consoles retain all of their current abilities.

Some changes are also needed to LRMs to suit the updated nature of Information warfare.Without ECM as an easy mode AMS LRM indirect fire needs a few alterations.

Firstly, Indirect fire requires a spotter.Currently any friendly that has a lock on an enemy can spot for LRM indirect fire.I propose a change that requires a spotter to be equiped with some sort of spotting equipment to be a valid source for LRM targeting.

The following items can be used to spot for LRM indirect fire.

TAG (any target effected by the TAG laser)
NARC (any target effected by the NARC)
UAV (any target within it's LoS)
Beagle Probe and Clan Active Probe (any target within it's LoS)
Command Consoles (that can actually lock up to three targets at once)

Reduce LRM min range to 90m (this is to encourage close support and direct fire as well as unify min. range mechanics for ease of memory for new players)

When fired directly at a target within LoS LRMs use a flatter trajectory.

When equiped with an Artemis FCS LRM projectiles that are fired at a target within LoS have a velocity increase as well as grouping tightened.

[Funkin Disher]

Lykaon, on 03 September 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

-Snip-

The kind of changes I dream of.
And not one or two little things per patch so people can digest it and whine little by little, change it all at once so we know its a new state of gameplay, like the overhaul it should be.

[zagibu]

Pjwned, on 03 September 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

So, it makes less sense for a piece of equipment on your mech to affect literally everybody except you, rather than the other way around.

Cool story.

It might be surprising for you, but it's actually how it works. ECM jamming is basically a very strong (and usually directed) radio noise emitter. You can think of it like one of the soldiers making a lot of noise on purpose to hide the movement sounds of his comrades. ECM jammers in real armies have very low life expectancy, because once they jam, the enemy knows exactly where they are sitting. It's why most modern systems are either stationary emitters in well defended fortresses or mobile systems that can pack and relocate in a matter of minutes.

Lykaon, on 03 September 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Lots of good suggestions

Unfortunately, none of it is simple.

Edited by zagibu, 03 September 2015 - 03:04 PM.

[Mordric]

I think Tag and Narcs should over ride ECM. it's that simple.. Tag is a visual confirmation wile Narc is broadcasting.

[LordNothing]

i suggested something like this. it was a 3 mode ecm. one mode is stealth, personal protection only. second mode is counter, which is the same as it is now. the third is protect, protect mechs around you, while leaving yourself open (cannot be protected by another ecm).

Mordric, on 03 September 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

I think Tag and Narcs should over ride ECM. it's that simple.. Tag is a visual confirmation wile Narc is broadcasting.

narc can counter ecm provided there is not another ecm there canceling it out (there usually is). i think they need to change the overlap rules somewhat. ecms should not be allowed to cover other ecms. effects should not stack.

another seldom used way to counter ecm is to use a ppc. if you can keep hitting the enemy with a ppc without overheating, then you open it up for missile attack. they should increase the disruption time from ppc blasts to make this tactic a bit more desirable.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 September 2015 - 03:28 PM.