60 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Warzog, on 05 September 2015 - 02:13 PM, said:

1) Using your sky analogy... If everyone says the sky is blue, and I say a storm is coming, because I can see it on the horizon, doesn't make either of us wrong, it simply means I noticed something that you haven't, yet.

2) I never claimed anyone was wrong, I stated that what they were saying was not what I was noticing.

1) Assuming that the storm is a problem, then sure. However, it may simply be that everyone here is indifferent to the storm. For example, where I live, it's normal to have storms nearly every afternoon around three; natives don't see it as a problem while visitors tend to freak out a little. The bottomline, is that it's not that the Mechs are moving too fast inasmuch as it is that the spawn points are lousy and folks are used to it by now. While the old ones were better, nobody is panicking over the fact that some Mechs start too close. It's been around long enough now that we've accepted it and modified our in-game behavior and strategies to accommodate it. You could say, that while you're busy yelling about an impending storm, the rest of us are just smiling and patting the umbrellas we're toting.

2) See below:

Warzog, on 05 September 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

I wouldn't have even started the thread if any of the things you folks have pointed out were true.

"If...were...true..."

In other words, we're wrong and you're right.

[Warzog]

bad arcade kitty:
on the Frozen City map skirmish or assault can't remember... dropped at A4. where the blue line turns to head due south is where the Centurion, Shadow Cat, and Adder were. I had just gotten to the top of the hill, 20 seconds into the match, when I literally ran into the Centurion, saw the Adder run to my right behind the Centurion. I put an alpha strike into the Centurion, turned to my right facing the Shadow Cat, saw a bunch of mechs close behind the Shadow Cat, fired on the Shadow Cat, and was blasted to bits by all of them.

on your Mining Collective map I started at B1 and headed straight for Kappa. I reached it at 20 seconds and was met by a Shadow Cat, the Storm Crow, and saw a bunch of other mechs turning the corner. Their closest start point is near the B5- C5 border way in the back,

The Canyon Network when we were asked how we'd crossed the map so fast: It was an Assault match, we caught everyone except a few lights at or near their drop sites around their base. I had thought that it was strange to not encounter them sniping at us as we headed to their base. When we saw them all around their base I thought that they were guarding it until one of them asked in All Chat how did we get there so fast.

Edit:
Before anyone asks, I have a strange habit of looking at the timer to see how fast I encounter the first mech. Not exactly sure why I do it, but I do.

Edited by Warzog, 05 September 2015 - 06:34 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

bad arcade kitty, on 05 September 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

same 106.9 kmh



i dunno... skirmish i suppose? it might be something like this, need more data





a possible scenario (was a pretty risky move on their part btw)



also you would better name the point because the minimap rotates and its west/east changes (they are not symmetrical too)



need more data... the canyon can be crossed pretty fast with jj/using bridges

nice graph this is what i said in my first post; there is a ramp in B4 that you go up and the enemy is already there.

what OP needs to do is take ramp at b3.



http://mwo.smurfy-ne...onnetwork&m=tdm

look at this link, this is the one from canyon network; in skirmish if the blue lance spawning at b2, take the center b3 route downward to rendezvous with friendlies toward mid; they will get rush down

the safe route is to go edge of map back to C1.

but to hell with safety i say!
i can drive faster thru b3 it is more fun to attempt it, but only if you got the armor to get whacked for a lil bit

Edited by Mazzyplz, 05 September 2015 - 08:23 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Appogee, on 05 September 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

Could you run some match recording software. It'd be interesting to see this happen, then consider potential explanations.

In any case, some of the spawn points are stupid. In some cases, Assaults spawn where they have to walk across clear terrain in front of two enemy lances.

No he spawned in the hole on Frozen, the enemy spawns all of two grids away, if you don't know to go back and around you get hammered going up the rise.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

It isn't mech speed. Some maps just have particular lances spawning really close to one another. Frozen City is the worst of them all.

[Appogee]

Oh, that Frozen spawn. If you're a fast Mech you can get up the ramp and away. If not, you have to go back along Jenner Alley to the back, or take your chances hitting a lance at the top of the ramp.

[Troutmonkey]

crustydog, on 05 September 2015 - 03:05 PM, said:

I have experienced exactly the same situation as the OP - many times.... but, it is an infrequent phenomenon.

What I am less certain of is this - it appears at times that the matches are not loading at exactly the same time for each of the players in the match. Sometimes I am the only lance member moving in my lance at the start - the others are still frozen, like they were discoed - but more likely it was just that their mechs have not loaded up yet. Sometimes this is very noticeable - and if one lance starts thirty seconds before another - well, a lot of terrain can be crossed by that first lance before the second lance even begins moving.

Games take a while to find, and then up to a minute to start after that. Many people alt-tab out of games while the search happens, and sometimes don't notice right away when the game begins. One of the many reasons MWO has so many AFK players

Edited by Troutmonkey, 05 September 2015 - 10:05 PM.

[Warzog]

Mazzyplz:
In Frozen City I dropped at A4 and went straight up the ramp at B4 and encountered the enemy at the top of the ramp 20 sec after drop.

In the Mining Collective I started at B1 and went straight to Kappa and was met by the enemy at 20 sec after drop.

[IraqiWalker]

Nightmare1, on 05 September 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

I'm guessing you're a new pilot. That's okay!

Here's a quick explanation for you:

The Centurion, Shadowcat, and Adder can all move 100+ kph when Speed Tweaked. Speed Tweak is an unlockable Pilot Skill in the Elite Skill Tree. Once you finishing Basic'ing your Mech, you need 8,500 XP to unlock this skill. Once unlocked, it multiples your top speed by 10% and then adds this value to your overall top speed. Case in point, let's say that your 97.2 Adder gets Speed Tweaked. 97.2*0.10=9.72. 97.2+9.72=106.92. Thus, your new top speed will be 106.92 kph.

In addition, there are multiple routes available to reach the same point. Perhaps they took a short cut. Perhaps some Mechs you're been seeing, like the Shadowcat, have jump jets and can go over terrain or structures instead of around them.

The bottomline, is that the Mechs aren't moving too fast; it sounds to me like you're striking out on your own in a slow, unleveled Mech. If you do that, it doesn't really matter how fast anyone's speed is; you're going to die. The best thing you can do, is to stay with your group.

Also note that in the case of the IS Mechs, boosting your speed comes at the cost of decreased firepower and increased fragility (Excel engine).

If you have any other questions about the game, feel free to message me!

Edit: Addendum: The Centurion can move 100+ kph depending on its engine. Case in point, I crammed an Excel 300 into my CN9-YLW which lets it move at 100+ kph. However, the Excel makes it fragile to the point where losing any single side torso will kill me just as it would if I lost the center torso.

Also, the Shadowcat, to my understanding, might not move 100+ kph with Speed Tweak, but that it definitely can with its special MASC ability. I don't own one, so I can't speak as authoritatively about it.

Just a note, since I love your posts, Nightmare. It's XL, not Excel. XL for Extra Light. Not Excel spreadsheet. Otherwise, it's a near perfect post.

[Nightmare1]

IraqiWalker, on 06 September 2015 - 06:39 PM, said:

Just a note, since I love your posts, Nightmare. It's XL, not Excel. XL for Extra Light. Not Excel spreadsheet. Otherwise, it's a near perfect post.

ROFL, you're right! I guess that's what I get for mixing college coursework with forum posts! XD

[White Bear 84]

Coralld, on 05 September 2015 - 07:56 AM, said:

I think the copyright needs updating on this map... #IGP #mustforget..

[ApolloKaras]

Im with Nightmare on this one.

I just dropped in training grounds, and walked back to where the forward spawn is for Frozen City (Skirmish) and I had a firing line on the exit to that within 25 seconds. 20 if the enemies that spawned in that hole decided to push up. Test was done in an Adder

Edited by Saxie, 06 September 2015 - 06:58 PM.

[Warzog]

Saxie:
I did not say I was just fired on in 20 seconds, I ran into a Centurion (you know, crunch, smash, bump, point blank firing range) in 20 seconds. With an Adder, and a Shadow Cat all next to where the ramp that comes up from A4 on "bad arcade kitty's" map levels off, and I saw a bunch of other mechs who had also cleared the north side of the buildings.
Check the second post on this page.

[IIIuminaughty]

on grim portical or how ever you spell it. There is a spot in the middle between the two gates and clan mechs get there really fast and are able to set up a firing line before IS mechs are able to even attack the gate or on counter attack get through. Other maps are like this as well on CW, thats my big problem, clans speed allow them to set up quicker. you would think with the ability of us being able to upgrade speed and put faster engines in IS it wouldnt be that much of a big deal.

[MrJeffers]

Warzog, on 05 September 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

I have noticed, and heard other players notice, that on occasion one team or the other will cross the battlefield extremely fast.
Of the two specific ones that I can remember, Frozen City, and the Mining Collective, enemy LANCES, not simply a single light mech, were able to cross the battlefield in 15-20 seconds.

In the Frozen City, I dropped at about A3, and climbed the hill there, which took 20 seconds-I watched the timer, and was met by a Centurion a Shadow Cat, and an Adder. I saw what looked like 5 more mechs close behind them, but died so fast I couldn't I.D. them.
Using the testing grounds, and my 97.2 kph Adder, I was able to get to the same spot in one minute and thirty-five seconds. They shouldn't have been able to do it in 20 seconds.

In the Mining Collective, I dropped in the southwest corner during a conquest mission and took 20 seconds to get to the nearest resource on the west side. As I got there, a Shadow Cat, and a Storm Crow, along with another lance close behind, killed most of my lance.
Using the testing grounds, and my 97.2 kph Adder, it took me one minute and twenty-three seconds to make the run that they did in under 20 seconds.

I also recall a time when an opponent asked how we had crossed the Canyon Network map so fast, and cornered them near their base, my timer showed about a minute and a half had already passed.
I've gotten cornered there a couple of times, again, within 15-20 seconds of the drop.

I've kept an eye on the timer, trying to see if there was what seems to be a one minute delay in our drop, but I've seen nothing to indicate that with the timer.

The problem seems to have started after the Oceanic Servers were fixed, and the Oceanic Server Event restarted. Although, the problem is across all servers, and all modes.
As to the rate of occurrence, I'd say about once every five drops, but then again, since the Oceanic Servers were fixed, it takes me 1-3 minutes or more to get into a mission, no matter which class I pick.

EDIT:
Almost forgot... It's not from lag on my part, as my entire team is still near the drop zones when the other team's lances appear.

I think you are testing wrong/using the wrong starting point for the enemy to gauge your times. On Frozen city it takes 20 seconds for my speed tweeked Shadowcat to go from the right side D4 spawn to the corner of B4, with a clean shot on the ramp by 25 seconds. Without using MASC or taking an optimal route.

Mining collective is a bit more, from the C5/B5 spawn it takes 30 seconds to reach B3. Again without MASC, using MASC brings it down to about 25 seconds..

Warzog, on 06 September 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

Mazzyplz:
In Frozen City I dropped at A4 and went straight up the ramp at B4 and encountered the enemy at the top of the ramp 20 sec after drop.

In the Mining Collective I started at B1 and went straight to Kappa and was met by the enemy at 20 sec after drop.

It's not impossible or improbable to get there in the short amount of time. I suggest you check out the above Smurfy links that show all the spawn points and try your testing again from the closest enemy spawn when you get speed tweak on your Adder so it's moving 106.9KPH. But I have no idea on how you got to a one minute and 35 second time, without even trying I did 20 seconds without MASC on my shadow cat.

Edited by MrJeffers, 06 September 2015 - 09:04 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

btw in a recent mining conquest enemy tried to attack us immediately like on the chart in my previous post
it ended very poorly for them, we shot them like in the shooting range, some noob crow, urbi, atlas, other mechs all went down into the smoking piles without doing almost any damage, we just competed who can kill them first

don't do it, it's very risky, you are open to be attacked from the flank by the middle lance

[Warzog]

bad arcade kitty, on 06 September 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

btw in a recent mining conquest enemy tried to attack us immediately like on the chart in my previous post
it ended very poorly for them, we shot them like in the shooting range, some noob crow, urbi, atlas, other mechs all went down into the smoking piles without doing almost any damage, we just competed who can kill them first

don't do it, it's very risky, you are open to be attacked from the flank by the middle lance

did you read the second post on this page?

Edited by Warzog, 06 September 2015 - 08:55 PM.

[LordNothing]

there is a place in frozen city i dread spawning as an assault. there is a hill there thats a slow climb and the only way to meet up with the rest of your team quickly (there is a safe route but involves circling behind wide and if you have an aggressive team you will never catch up). sometimes you get a bunch of fast movers spawning at a near by point and usually can get close enough to do significant damage to the assault lance before you can meet up with the team.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

I blame clan heavies which uniformly go 89 kph when mastered. Technically IS heavies can do that as well... but... running an XL on most of the IS heavies is kind of suicidal. I think the grasshopper, catapult, jagermech, and dragon are the only IS mechs that run one regularly and of those only the dragon can go that fast (it can in fact go as fast as the storm crow).

[Warzog]

Has anyone done the same map over and over and over again in the same day?
And... Dropped at the same drop site over and over in the same day?
And... Rendezvoused at the same grid or grabbed the same resource over and over in the same day?
Or... Encountered the enemy at the same locations, or tried to grab resources at certain places over and over in one day?

If you haven't, well, you have something to look forward to.

If you have...
Don't you think you would notice if a resource you've been gathering uninterruptedly all day/week is suddenly under attack en masse long before it had ever been before?
Don't you think you would notice if you've been able to rendezvous unharassed with your team at a certain grid point every time you drop on that map that you would notice the one time when the enemy is already there en masse?

If so... Wouldn't you think it strange that that encounter wasn't done by 140-172kph light mechs, but by medium or heavy mechs that might have been modified to do around 100-109 kph?

If not... I'm wasting my time.

Edited by Warzog, 07 September 2015 - 04:39 AM.