220 replies to this topic

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Lugh, on 02 October 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM-6 Sorry charlie but the LORE rating for both clan and IS SRMS is 2 damage for 4 heat. for the 6 and 2 damage a missle and 3 heat for the 4s.


So let's make them equal the way they should be.

There are Dead-Fire Missiles. Simply aim and fire like MWO's version.

SRMs are supposed to have some guidance.



So if we are stuck with the dead-fire variety I want to see how fewer missiles per volley at increased damage work.

So:
SRM-6 fires three missiles at 4 damage each, most spread, six missiles over 8 seconds
SRM-4 fires two missiles at 4 damage each, medium spread, six missiles over 9 seconds
SRM-2 fires one missile at 4 damage each, no spread, four missiles over 8 seconds

With reduced spread, fewer missiles to track, and maybe a small bump in velocity, it should help register damage better.

As for the Lore, with the rate of fire they are still lobbing a bunch of missiles over eight to ten seconds so it don't bother me having to work around the game engine's and netcode limits.

[Hunchening]

Lugh, on 02 October 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM-6 Sorry charlie but the LORE rating for both clan and IS SRMS is 2 damage for 4 heat. for the 6 and 2 damage a missle and 3 heat for the 4s.


So let's make them equal the way they should be.

Mcgral18, on 09 September 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

Current isSRMs are 2.15 damage per missile. A pitiful buff, not where they should be at 2.5. By Lore, they should actually be 3 damage, as they're Dead-Fire missiles.

That's some amazing reading comprehension there, Victoria.

[Lyoto Machida]

Lugh, on 02 October 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM-6 Sorry charlie but the LORE rating for both clan and IS SRMS is 2 damage for 4 heat. for the 6 and 2 damage a missle and 3 heat for the 4s.


So let's make them equal the way they should be.


Be sure you take artemis as a lot of that is likely hitting invisible things because of the path width of the cluster.

What they REALLY need to do if find the bug in the HSR code that causes it to flake out and forget any number greater than 12 SRMs fired at one time.

The stats I listed for 10/15/20 are with Artemis...I don't use them with LRM5s. I don't know if it's worth using on 5s, since you usually have to boat 4 or more LRM5s to be useful and that's 4+ tons going to Artemis.

SRMs are semi-guided in lore and not what we have here so Mcgral18 is correct. Either lower the damage to 2 and give us semi-guided SRMs or increase the damage to 3 and keep them how they are.

[Talynn DeRaa]

I really think this game would be improved in 3 quick, and easy steps:

STEP 1. Reduce the current maximum heat threshold by 25% to 30%. Heat Sinks shouldn't increase the threshold but allow for quicker dissipation of heat.

STEP 2. Missiles should have their cones reduced slightly without Artemis as they are now, and have an even greater cone reduction with.

STEP 3. Following the introduction of the new PTS quirk changes, which setup mechs in different classes of Mobility, Armor, Firepower and InfoTech, people might find the introduction of "InfoTech" redundant, as they will primarily be using pin-point accurate weapons right now, as they are the meta. However, to further emphasize the use of InfoTech, a mechs weapons Cannot fully converge on a target unless they have a complete lock. For pilots who are good with their mechs and understand how to best utilize their mech, this change will not affect them greatly. It will however mean that they cannot simply alpha-strike a target and expect all weapons to hit on-point. If a pilot is good with his mech and his weapons, he'll be able to manually adjust his aim to compensate for the geometry of his mech and fire all associated weapons on-point with relative accuracy. This will mitigate the current meta of instantly alpha-striking a mech the moment you see them, that is, unless, you have a mech on your team who's got good InfoTech and will assist you on gaining your lock-on quicker and be able to deliver those pin-point immediate shots the moment you want them. This way, everyone wins: InfoTech becomes useful, skilled pilots are rewarded for being able to utilize their mechs geometry to fire their weapons without the need of a complete lock-on, and weapons such as SRM's and LBX-AutoCannons gain more desired use for their "shoot now, think about accuracy later" playstyle.

With these 3 steps combined, we should see a healthy return of mixed weapon configuration loadouts that will help a player play their mech to -their- playstyle, rather than being shore-horned into playing a mech to its quirks as the current system entails. This also mitigates clans laser-vomit builds as the current state of the PTS shows that -all- clan mechs have extremely poor InfoTech.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I only use ssrms because srms seem to pass right through mechs without doing damage..

[oldradagast]

A small cone of fire added to precision weapons - one that varies with Infotech - is a good idea. It would make "auto-scatter" weapons, like LRM's, SRM's, and LBX's more useful by default, and it would give infotech a purpose other than telling you where the enemy that killed you is located. It's also completely within the game engine's abilities (unlike convergence) since we already have it for jump-jetting while shooting and machine guns.

Also, let's not forget how easy LRM's are to counter - as if the game needed radar derp - and how SRM's don't even register most of their hits all too often.

Edited by oldradagast, 02 October 2015 - 02:49 PM.

[GrimRiver]

ECM is getting nerfed and some people want a missle buff? It's already hard enough when my team doesn't have an ECM and we get ripped apart by lurm fire in first 4 minutes of match.

But I do think SRM's need a buff cause firing a SRM6 feel just like a SRM2, there is no omph to them.

[oldradagast]

Mcgral18, on 22 September 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

Anyone know when the PTS weapon balance ETA is?

I mean....there has to be one planned, right?

My bet is Soon ™ or about 6 months after all the mechs are stripped of weapon quirks and IS mechs become completely unplayable. Get ready for more Clan Gauss and Laser Vomit! Maybe some Clan dakka for variety! But even they won't use missiles unless they have to... lol...

Edited by oldradagast, 02 October 2015 - 02:55 PM.

[Mystere]

oldradagast, on 02 October 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

My bet is Soon ™ or about 6 months after all the mechs are stripped of weapon quirks and IS mechs become completely unplayable. Get ready for more Clan Gauss and Laser Vomit! Maybe some Clan dakka for variety! But even they won't use missiles unless they have to... lol...

Sometimes, it helps to read once in a while:

Quote

We are planning to have another PTS sometime in the next 1-2 weeks ...

[Lightfoot]

LRMs, especially Clan because they stream out, have been useless since the first patch of January 2015. Not sure what they did, but I think that was when LRMs had their direct fire capability nerfed by lowering the angle needed for a Center or Rear Torso hit from about 30-35 degrees offset to 10-15 degrees offset. In otherwords you have to be directly in front of your target or the LRMs will hit the Arm or Side torso which have a lot of damage immunity once destroyed. You can test this on Testing Grounds. It takes about 400-500 LRMs to kill a stationary Cicada from the side now. Even if only 20-30 degrees offset. That's just too noob-friendly and certainly not MechWarrior. Meanwhile direct fire weapons can hit the CT of most mechs easily at 70 degrees or more offset.

Anyway, once the January nerf was done to LRMs, suddenly, no one was complaining on the forums they had been destroyed by LRMs which was constant up until then. That's bad. If no one is complaining it isn't working as far as missiles go. It means LRMs are easily beaten. This is because missile-haters never use them, and don't want them in the game, and complain continuously about no-skill kills, etc.

Then you add all the new ECM mechs and LRMs are a waste of payload space. Just join the Laser Meta because that's all that works reliably. But that's boring. MWO should be able to handle more than just Lasers. How will MWO retain players if all it offers is Laser loadouts? Do that a few times and you are done for the week.

Edited by Lightfoot, 05 October 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[Mcgral18]

LRMs do require more time than SRMs to fix.

SRMs can be easily adjusted via the .XML, while LRMs need entire mechanic changes.

[keith]

Mcgral18, on 05 October 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

LRMs do require more time than SRMs to fix.

SRMs can be easily adjusted via the .XML, while LRMs need entire mechanic changes.

if we are talking about changing lrms, can we get what i've since CB. can we get them to target body parts u aim at like in MW4, add a bit of skill in lrms. instead of this crap always go for ct. thought i doubt thought the many versions of lrm we have seen we are going to see any changes....

[Mcgral18]

keith, on 05 October 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

if we are talking about changing lrms, can we get what i've since CB. can we get them to target body parts u aim at like in MW4, add a bit of skill in lrms. instead of this crap always go for ct. thought i doubt thought the many versions of lrm we have seen we are going to see any changes....

Issue here is what PGI is willing, or is capable, of implementing.


I don't have details about that. Just that someone refuses to regularly or even occasionally adjust the Weapons.XML.

[Amsro]

I think the quickest fix for SRM's is to decrease the COF.

How much I'm not sure, maybe half of what it is now. As stated they are pretty great when you face hug, so the main issue is the lack of pinpoint for all missiles.

TLDR Needs more damage or less spread.

[Trev Firestorm]

GrimRiver, on 02 October 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

ECM is getting nerfed and some people want a missle buff? It's already hard enough when my team doesn't have an ECM and we get ripped apart by lurm fire in first 4 minutes of match.

But I do think SRM's need a buff cause firing a SRM6 feel just like a SRM2, there is no omph to them.

A return to the age of AMS proliferation is [would] not [be] a bad thing, especially when there are now many dual and triple ams mechs available but underutilized because of the jesus box being so much stronger than it should be.

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 05 October 2015 - 05:34 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I think the quickest fix for SRM's is to decrease the COF.

nah. we dont need more pinpoint weapons.

different weapons should work differently. not all weapons should be pinpoint damage. thats so friggin boring.

SRMs should work like they used too: spread out MASSIVE damage.

Unforunately buffing SRM damage would lower TTK and im not sure thats a good idea given how low TTK already is. So I think a better idea would be to nerf the overpowered weapons down to the point where SRMs start to become appealing again.

If SRMs do end up getting a damage buff I think 2.5 is the highest they should go. Anymore than that could have some seriously adverse effects on TTK.

I also think Artemis should increase the crit chance of SRMs and direct LRMs because Artemis sucks pretty bad.

Edited by Khobai, 05 October 2015 - 06:10 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Lugh, on 02 October 2015 - 12:54 PM, said:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM-6 Sorry charlie but the LORE rating for both clan and IS SRMS is 2 damage for 4 heat. for the 6 and 2 damage a missle and 3 heat for the 4s.


So let's make them equal the way they should be.

Dead-fire missiles were totally a thing. Just...not any more. They were replaced by MRMs...which are not in the game.

[Mcgral18]

Amsro, on 05 October 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

I think the quickest fix for SRM's is to decrease the COF.

How much I'm not sure, maybe half of what it is now. As stated they are pretty great when you face hug, so the main issue is the lack of pinpoint for all missiles.

TLDR Needs more damage or less spread.

I'd vote for 3 buffs, damage, spread and velocity.


No less than 2 of those. Range buff not out of the question, but without velocity it would be essentially useless.

Khobai, on 05 October 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

nah. we dont need more pinpoint weapons.

different weapons should work differently. not all weapons should be pinpoint damage. thats so friggin boring.

SRMs should work like they used too: spread out MASSIVE damage.

Unforunately buffing SRM damage would lower TTK and im not sure thats a good idea given how low TTK already is. So I think a better idea would be to nerf the overpowered weapons down to the point where SRMs start to become appealing again.

If SRMs do end up getting a damage buff I think 2.5 is the highest they should go. Anymore than that could have some seriously adverse effects on TTK.

I also think Artemis should increase the crit chance of SRMs and direct LRMs because Artemis sucks pretty bad.

2.5 would be a safe number; they used to be there with the massive splash damage.

Current Artemis is very boring in its implementation. A straight up 34% 'spread' reduction.
Now, I'm not certain about this, but I'm pretty sure Spread is the radius. If an Atlas is 18M tall, it adds up (with cSRM6 having 5.9 'spread', in Meters, times 2 gives you 11.8M).

Crit chances...alright, but I'd prefer LBx get that (up the 2x critDamMult to 5x) and IDEALLY get the old Artemis in-out-in flight path. Current Flight Path is pretty much static past 30M (big initial spread). Very boring compared to the past, although both more and less effective (depending on the In or Out distance).

[Y E O N N E]

I think spread is the radius at half range, because they start clustering again after half of their flight range.

Personally, I'd like to see a damage buff to 2.5/missile, a velocity buff to 350-400 m/s, and some form of general cool-down buff....probably on a sliding scale so the smaller tube counts get a more dramatic improvement than the larger ones.

[Khobai]

Quote

Crit chances...alright, but I'd prefer LBx get that (up the 2x critDamMult to 5x) and IDEALLY get the old Artemis in-out-in flight path. Current Flight Path is pretty much static past 30M (big initial spread). Very boring compared to the past, although both more and less effective (depending on the In or Out distance).

Artemis is basically a targeting computer for missiles so it should give SRMs/direct LRMs at least a +5% crit chance. That would give every weapon type a way to get an increased crit chance.

LBX is fine with a x2 crit modifier. What it needs is higher damage per pellet. Give it 1.2 or 1.3 damage per pellet and see how it performs then. MG also needs a damage boost.

And weapons that do 10 or more frontloaded damage need their crit damage modifiers significantly reduced. AC/10/PPC/Gauss/AC20 should all have their crit dmg modifiers lowered to from x1.0 to like x0.5 so they dont instantly destroy items when they crit. Those weapons should not be outperforming LBX/MGs at getting crits. LBX/MGs should be the best crit weapons in the game.

Edited by Khobai, 05 October 2015 - 09:35 PM.