111 replies to this topic

[Hotthedd]

Lugh, on 19 October 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

As for this game and what PGI COULD do, their first step in the right direction is to hire a man that is good at MATH.

Then do the math for the scales of 5 damage over 10 seconds. Then because that works out to be .2 damage a second and fractions make Gamerkiddies heads explode decide what big number range you wish to apply to that to make it OMG LOOK AT HOW MUCH DAMAGE I DID LOL?!?!

Do the same math to figure out What the armor values need to be so that the TTK is the same.

Then apply that same scale to the armor.

So lets say they decide the numbers need to be 1000x TT values for the 10 second turn...

That would be 200 damage for the ML at 5 damage with 40 damage applied per second that the laser is on target.

That is not what I was saying.

In TT a ML does 5 damage over 10 seconds with 3 heat IIRC. In MW:O that could be a hitscan doing X damage over Y seconds with Z cooldown, so that the damage would equal roughly 5 over 10 seconds of continuous fire. Same thing with heat.

Same game play, adheres to lore and Canon, just tweaks some numbers.

[MischiefSC]

Scout Derek, on 10 September 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

I've been hearing talk that the game is really unbalanced, and talk has come down to arguments about what it should be and what should not.

So I've taken it upon myself to ask you:

If Mechwarrior: Online is not balanced, then which previous Mechwarrior title was?

It's hard not to use other game titles such as this, and even similar ones (such as Hawken), but none are really ever like the Mechwarrior franchise, not similar in game mechanics, and not similar in weaponry.

But back to the question again, which Mechwarrior title was balanced if Mechwarrior Online isn't?

As a single player pve game?

None of them were balanced in any way as a multi-player pvp moba. Not even close.

[Water Bear]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

mmmmmmmmmmmm... TESLA Pods. Largely responsible for my love of Summoners.

Despite my general disdain for what Clan Invasion did for to the game as a whole.

I felt like a god because I got my mech to strafe. Then I walked into a mountain.

I was not exactly Kai Allard Liao at the controls.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Scout Derek, on 10 September 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

I've been hearing talk that the game is really unbalanced, and talk has come down to arguments about what it should be and what should not.

So I've taken it upon myself to ask you:

If Mechwarrior: Online is not balanced, then which previous Mechwarrior title was?

It's hard not to use other game titles such as this, and even similar ones (such as Hawken), but none are really ever like the Mechwarrior franchise, not similar in game mechanics, and not similar in weaponry.

But back to the question again, which Mechwarrior title was balanced if Mechwarrior Online isn't?

None of them...

BUT, that's because all the prior games, the Multiplayer was a secondary function. You primarily played Single Player in prior titles, multiplayer was a tacked on experience. A FUN tacked on experience, mind you, but tacked on none the less.

However MWO's failing is simple... it's online only, which means, to the vast majority of players, they expect balance.

You know, I fondly remember the days where, yeah sure we complained about imbalances, but if someone overused something we just kicked them... oh wait, WE CAN'T DO THAT HERE.

See here's the thing, when you get a multiplayer game like this, you have two choices, you either 1: Support dedicated servers were players can run the game on their own. or 2)Have to play by "THE COMPANY'S RULES."

In event 1, the playerbase govern's itself... if something is seen as OP, modderators or mod bots are put in place to keep an eye on the server to look for that broken mechanic being exploited and then action is taken. The problem with this style of multiplayer is that you easily fracture the playerbase, as some servers will decide on very, very odd rulesets [see CoD:WaW's "Tatctical crouch only" servers.] or Battlefield's no explosive servers. However, I feel the gameplay experience can be overall better with this kind of system in place.

Event 2... you're beholden to the company that owns the game to make the ruleset and to enforce it... which means if you have a slow moving company, and fast moving playerbase... exploits happen, and then get abused for long portions of the game's life [see the current situation we have.] On the positive side, you get no strange ruleset's that are counter to the game's intention [see the cod reference above] but on the negative, the playerbase has no way to police itself, and you are beholden entirely to the company to move to make balance adjustments... that could have easily been programmed into a server browser.

So there's good, and bad on both sides... I prefer option 1, which allows the most freedom [3025 era dedicated servers would be amazing!] but instead we get option 2, which leaves us beholden to a slow to act company in regards to "Balance"

[Bishop Steiner]

Water Bear, on 19 October 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

I felt like a god because I got my mech to strafe. Then I walked into a mountain.

I was not exactly Kai Allard Liao at the controls.

I only lived 45 minutes from a Virtual World, in the early 90s, so got plenty of practice. Pricey practice, though.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

I only lived 45 minutes from a Virtual World, in the early 90s, so got plenty of practice. Pricey practice, though.

1995, I was 10 years old... got to go to VWE San Diego with my dad, played something like 10 games.

Man, I wish those were still around and easy to get to in my area.

[Mawai]

All of the previous Mechwarrior titles, with the exception of the fan developed Crysis mod MW:LL, were designed primarily as SINGLE PLAYER PVE Campaigns. This means that large scale mech combat using a wide selection of mechs and weapons systems from clan and IS factions was never a significant consideration.

From this perspective MWO has better "balance" than any of the previous MW titles. The balance in MWO has a lot of flaws. The balance should be better since MWO is supposed to be designed from the beginning as a multiplayer PVP game.

However, there are times when MWO really feels more like a sales platform for digital mech artwork that you can drive around going "bang bang" than a well thought out, balanced, Battletech inspired first person mecha shooter . The game won't go anywhere without great graphics and immersion but it is the gameplay (including balance) that keeps folks coming back for more and continuing to purchase more content.

[Naduk]

absolutely none of them , the old mechwarriors were horrible in terms of balance
MW2 a single LRM 20 salvo would kill most light mechs
no mech warrior game besides mwo has even attempted to balance IS and Clan tech
they were always gear races, how fast can you get the bet kit you can

but the thing is , AI do not cry
they dont care when you onebang them with a single LRM volly
they do not get upset they are in a mech that overheats all the time and yours never does
they dont mind fighting an atlas in a firemoth or that half the atlas weapons can insta kill it
they dont even get upset that they are forced to use stock mechs while players custom design power house super killers

multiplayer for the old Mech games was always just tacked on the side
it was a tiny extra that you could enjoy after the story was finished
it was never meant to seriously capture the MW experience in a PvP environment

MWO is horribly unbalanced
but it is by far the most balanced mechwarrior game ever
getting balance right is not that hard
what makes it so rough for MW is the Lore attached to absolutely everything
for instance , machine guns
a machine gun weighs 1 ton (0.5gun 0.5ammo)
a medium laser weighs 1 ton
so why are these weapons not equal to each other ?
because lore says so,
why is a Clan 1ton medium laser so much better than a IS 1ton medium laser
because lore says so
its makes no sense to have a system of cost like tonnage to provide restrictions and balance
then completely ignore that very system by having items vastly superior to others in the same weight class
but again , lore

PGI have done an outstanding job at balancing this game and keeping it as lore friendly as possible
they have solved a great many issues that the past MW games failed to even acknowledge let alone address
PGI have accomplished much but there is much more to be done in the realm of balance

[TWIAFU]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

mmmmmmmmmmmm... TESLA Pods. Largely responsible for my love of Summoners.

Despite my general disdain for what Clan Invasion did for to the game as a whole.

Yea, the Pods/BattleTech Centers were/are awesome!

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

I only lived 45 minutes from a Virtual World, in the early 90s, so got plenty of practice. Pricey practice, though.

My first drop in them was in Chicago, North Pier. Yours?

Edited by TWIAFU, 19 October 2015 - 02:28 PM.

[Water Bear]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

I only lived 45 minutes from a Virtual World, in the early 90s, so got plenty of practice. Pricey practice, though.

TWIAFU, on 19 October 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

My first drop in them was in Chicago, North Pier. Yours?

You lucky SOBs. I got my first and only ride at Dragon Con in Atlanta after I was already in my mid-20's.

[Bilbo]

Water Bear, on 19 October 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

You lucky SOBs. I got my first and only ride at Dragon Con in Atlanta after I was already in my mid-20's.

You are better off than I. Never seen one in my life.

[MechWarrior5152251]

I want to try MWLL, but are there any active servers? The only video I saw had literally no one on it...

[Bilbo]

MechWarrior5152251, on 19 October 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

I want to try MWLL, but are there any active servers? The only video I saw had literally no one on it...

there is a thread about it here:
http://mwomercs.com/...ds-is-not-dead/

Good luck.

[Tiamat of the Sea]

Scout Derek, on 10 September 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

I've been hearing talk that the game is really unbalanced, and talk has come down to arguments about what it should be and what should not.

So I've taken it upon myself to ask you:

If Mechwarrior: Online is not balanced, then which previous Mechwarrior title was?

It's hard not to use other game titles such as this, and even similar ones (such as Hawken), but none are really ever like the Mechwarrior franchise, not similar in game mechanics, and not similar in weaponry.

But back to the question again, which Mechwarrior title was balanced if Mechwarrior Online isn't?

None of them.

Probably the first one was closest, but it had its problems too (Locust leg-hump of death, for instance.) Also, you know, relatively little game in that game. Plenty for when it was made, but not the kind of game that holds up too well- not its fault nor its designers' fault.

[Roadkill]

Tastian, on 10 September 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

In my personal experience, previous mechwarrior games had tonnage creep. The greater the tonnage, the greater the fire power, the greater the mech.

This, plus Clan > Inner Sphere.

But it's really not a valid question, as the earlier MW games were single-player games first with Online as an add-on. None of them really tried to be balanced for online play, and since they weren't even trying no one really cared.

The problem for MWO is that they're trying - and failing - to make everything balanced. It's basically impossible, so why try?

Seriously? You want a Dire Wolf and a Mist Lynx to be balanced? You want an Atlas and a Spider to be balanced? ROFLMAO. They aren't, never will be, and most importantly shouldn't be.

[C E Dwyer]

Scout Derek, on 10 September 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

I've been hearing talk that the game is really unbalanced, and talk has come down to arguments about what it should be and what should not.

So I've taken it upon myself to ask you:

If Mechwarrior: Online is not balanced, then which previous Mechwarrior title was?

It's hard not to use other game titles such as this, and even similar ones (such as Hawken), but none are really ever like the Mechwarrior franchise, not similar in game mechanics, and not similar in weaponry.

But back to the question again, which Mechwarrior title was balanced if Mechwarrior Online isn't?

Never gave a damn, only one I ever PvP in was Mechwarrior 3 and that was ALL legging, so balance really was how good a shot you were, and I can't say I spent more than 24 hours in the PvP.

The story line and PvE was far better, if not very challenging

[Bishop Steiner]

TWIAFU, on 19 October 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

Yea, the Pods/BattleTech Centers were/are awesome!



My first drop in them was in Chicago, North Pier. Yours?

Walnut Creek, CA

[Void Angel]

Nearly all cone of fire systems aren't a solution to convergence - it's a punishment for playing the game. Same with motion sickness swaying and whatnot. A Counterstrike-style movement accuracy penalty might be workable in moderation, but that's not what's typically meant when people say "cone of fire." And no matter how people may try to play definition games, it's not a "simple" solution - you're going to have to make new software systems to govern these mechanics, since to the best of my knowledge they're not part of the stock engine.

Quickdraw Crobat, on 19 October 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

None of them.

Probably the first one was closest, but it had its problems too (Locust leg-hump of death, for instance.) Also, you know, relatively little game in that game. Plenty for when it was made, but not the kind of game that holds up too well- not its fault nor its designers' fault.

The glaring holes in balance were, though - you could sell most of your 'mechs, travel from your starting planet to Coventry Metal Works, buy 'mechs at rock bottom prices, then jet over to the periphery to sell them at a huge profit. Wash, rinse, repeat. Before you touched a single story mission, you could have more money than Blake and any available 'mech your blackened heart desired.

Anyhow, it never ceases to amaze me how players keep on giving incredibly negative and snide feedback - condescending asininities about how easy it is to balance MWO, but PGI won't do it - and yet wonder why their nonconstructive feedback doesn't get incorporated into the game. Go into any other business and give them those "my-way-or-the-highway" horse apples, and you'll eventually be shown the road. Yet people act like the problem is with the company's supposed intransigence; that everything would be ever so much better if PGI would just adopt their simple little idea.

It's nonsensical and totally dishonest to scream and insult and complain about everything, no matter what - (did the last test build look at reducing the heat capacity of some 'mechs? "NOT ENOUGH! You're stupid, PGI!") - and then pretend that you're totally clueless about the real reasons no one adopts their cunning plans. It's like going to your local fast food joint and throwing a fit about the menu, then lecturing their manager about how they shouldbe running the place - every time you walk in the door. They might eventually call the police... but they're not going to change the menu.

[Bishop Steiner]

Water Bear, on 19 October 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

You lucky SOBs. I got my first and only ride at Dragon Con in Atlanta after I was already in my mid-20's.

I was 18, because basically, I started playing when they were first invented. Mind you I was not talking Tesla II pods. The originals, back in 1993........ https://news.google....2,3749876&hl=en
first got to play 2 days after that article for my birthday

[Bishop Steiner]

Void Angel, on 19 October 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

Nearly all cone of fire systems aren't a solution to convergence - it's a punishment for playing the game. Same with motion sickness swaying and whatnot. A Counterstrike-style movement accuracy penalty might be workable in moderation, but that's not what's typically meant when people say "cone of fire." And no matter how people may try to play definition games, it's not a "simple" solution - you're going to have to make new software systems to govern these mechanics, since to the best of my knowledge they're not part of the stock engine.

and yet virtually every FPS ever uses them.... and no, they aren't a punishment..they simply require higher skill levels to overcome.

The rest of your post, is too emotionally charged for me to touch, as emotion overrides reason.

Sorry. The game is what it is. Pretending otherwise, white knight or black, is just silly.

The changes people keep pushing aren't going to happen, it will never be a SimLite. It's a FPS with a really super simplified targeting system.

If addressing that as the reality is being snide, etc, whatever.