772 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

Thank you Paul for all your hard work on this! I look forward to testing it in the PTS this weekend and am sure that I will be pleasantly surprised. The introduction of information warfare will be a welcome addition, to be sure!

[IraqiWalker]

Perci, on 11 September 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

I know this would require a drastic change but I would like to see quirks linked in with the faction and community warfare,

for example for each level of Davion faction loyalty you gain you can choose a ballistic skill quirk, or Steiner you would get a armour quirk, due to their mechanics and manufacturing specialization in that area. but you can only have one set of quirks applied to your mech and only if you are under contract to them.

also you can factor in planets with manufacturing facilities to give community warfare actual purpose.

linking them to faction rank is not a good idea in my book. It will break balance for public queues. It will cause problems with veterancy being so much better in a static way. Ever played WH40K Spacemarine? Playing as a level 20 against level 41s is an absolute nightmare.

coe7, on 11 September 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Congratulations for adding totally useless infotech stuff. You really do not understand your own game it seems? Anyone with even a sliver of skill hits the same with or without red box around the mech. Who are you trying to fool here? the masses I assume.

If this was the long awaited BV, you really should hop in an see what your highest tier players do in this game. Balance made for below average players has never worked on any game in history of gaming. Dissing meta players in your post and trying to limit how players should play your game really shows your ability as a player and in the end, as a designer.

This community B****d and moaned about information warfare for the last 3 years+. Now that they are trying to put it in, you still complain!?

[charov]

I would advise some guys to cool down. Those changes are up into the PTS so test them and give useful feedbacks about what you think it's not working. Nothing's set in stone!

[DAYLEET]

Im very happy that you are willing to ditch something completely after working on it for a long time for something new entirely.

[aniviron]

I'm very glad that you're looking at doing information warfare stuff now. The sensor range thing is a good start, and I look forward to seeing how it plays out on the PTS.

[coe7]

IraqiWalker, on 11 September 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

This community B****d and moaned about information warfare for the last 3 years+. Now that they are trying to put it in, you still complain!?

It's not my problem if you do not understand that there is no such thing as information warfare as presented here. Targetting data is not usefull information. (shocknews?) You know by chassis and what it fires where to shoot if its XL or not, you will go for CT on everything else, gunarms on mechs that pose them, etc. Now with tier play, where majority of people can aim, there is no longer chances of major splash damage all over the mech. Mechs are called as they are seen, shot on target priority level.

So what if it takes now bit longer to take targeting data on a good mech? I get to see yellow CT bit later where I would place my alpha regardless while peaking around the corner?

You don't really have faintest idea how bad majority of mechs now are due this patch, and how overpowered are those few mechs that carry high alpha with 0 sensor boosts? You will always choose what ever brings most of damage, since by default, this game is about majority shooting at few targets, thats where you move your troops. Ergo. Damage wins. Now with this ****, many hulls gets its damage potential removed due imagenary information warfare.

Edited by coe7, 11 September 2015 - 02:19 PM.

[Tennex]

For this system to work you guys really need a simplified/streamlined quirking system. Or at least a better display system. Group the quirks together and display them in units that are understandable for the players. It will also make your own jobs easier. Instead of having to individually adjust these variables, the grouped stats go up together.

For example:

+1 mobility = 10%acceleration, +10% decel, 10% twist rate, 10% turn rate.
+1 detection = +100% shortrange, +50% med range, +10% long range acquisition
+1 durability = +10% Internal, +2 durability = +20% internal

Similar to how Strength, Intelligence, Dexterity affect multiple things, but are simplied into 1 unit to be understandable for the player in RPG games.

Could you imagine if RPG stats were posted like PGI posts these quirks? you'd get a massive list of random facts like
+10% accuracy bow
+10% accuracy kinfe
+10% accuracy sword
+100 damage fireball
+100 damage magic missile
+15 jump height
+10% jump duration
ETC ETCETC ETCETEFCETCETCETCETC

Edited by Tennex, 14 September 2015 - 09:36 AM.

[FupDup]

Mist Lynx nerfs confirmed:

[Jman5]

With all these information warfare capabilities being adjusted, is there any chance we can get those ECM/BAP adjustments onto the PTS?

[Skarlock]

Paul Inouye, on 11 September 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

TL;DR:
* You should read the above.
* The current quirk system is not working as intended.
* The new system brings 'Mechs much more closely in line with each other while adding role and information warfare in a much deeper meaning to each 'Mech.
* This is the first pass at numbers and your feedback is requested.
* There are bugs and missing information elements but they will be addressed in a later build.

Paul,

There is a very important element that I would like clarified as part of this change, and I feel it's super important. Can you please confirm, that as of this build and this particular patch on the PTS, that ONLY the quirks have changed? If there are any other changes at all, to ghost heat, weapon stats, armor effectiveness, jump jets, anything at all that is NOT directly visible in the quirk info, can you please let us know? Confirming this is purely changes to quirks only would help us a lot IMO as otherwise, we might miss something important in our feedback. Thank you for your clarification.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Is it a little sad that I'm super excited about the new sub forum for discussion about the balancing? So much more to read!

[Skarlock]

Tennex, on 11 September 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

Just hopped in to take a look at it.

For this system to work you guys really need a simplified/streamlined quirking system. Group the quirks together into units that are understandable for the players. It will also make your own jobs easier.

For example:

+1 mobility = 10%acceleration, 10% twist rate, 10% turn rate.
+1 detection = +100% shortrange, +50% med range, +10% long range acquisition


Similar to how Strength, Intelligence, Dexterity affect multiple things, but are simplied into 1 unit to be understandable for the player in RPG games

Adding arbitrary values and multipliers only obfuscates what the quirks actually do. I think this is not a good suggestion. I don't want to have to consult a table to interpret what the quirks actually do.

[aniviron]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

Mist Lynx nerfs confirmed:

There... there has to have been some kind of mistake? The Mist Lynx has consistently been one of the worst mechs in the game, generally considered to be in the bottom 5 for sure, and that was with its huge structure buffs. I just don't... what?

[stjobe]

All weapon quirks seem to be gone. Structure, speed, and sensor quirks seem to be in:

[Hal Greaves]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

Mist Lynx nerfs confirmed:

Nobody plays with this mech anyways so whats the difference?

[MischiefSC]

The sensor quirks are irrelevant. Pretty much completely. A 1 second difference in paperdoll population has such an insignificant impact on gameplay it's hard to express how insignificant. Same with sensor range. Much beyond 1,000m you've got enemies who have likely never seen combat and are fresh or have only gotten sporadic sniper fire.

If you want IW to be relevant it needs to be powerful. Negating ECM at long range, covering paperdolls at long range, simultaneously locking every enemy target in LoS, that sort of thing.

These sensor quirks mean nothing. May as well be talking about 1% range quirks on AMS. It has no significant impact on mech performance balance.

[IraqiWalker]

coe7, on 11 September 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

It's not my problem if you do not understand that there is no such thing as information warfare as presented here. Targetting data is not usefull information. (shocknews?) You know by chassis and what it fires where to shoot if its XL or not, you will go for CT on everything else, gunarms on mechs that pose them, etc. Now with tier play, where majority of people can aim, there is no longer chances of major splash damage all over the mech. Mechs are called as they are seen, shot on target priority level.

So what if it takes now bit longer to take targeting data on a good mech? I get to see yellow CT bit later where I would place my alpha regardless while peaking around the corner?

You don't really have faintest idea how bad majority of mechs now are due this patch, and how overpowered are those few mechs that carry high alpha with 0 sensor boosts? You will always choose what ever brings most of damage, since by default, this game is about majority shooting at few targets, thats where you move your troops. Ergo. Damage wins. Now with this ****, many hulls gets its damage potential removed due imagenary information warfare.

Considering I've been sifting through spreadsheets of their quirks, and what's going on, I actually have a better idea than you think, or probably do.

At the end, it's not my fault that you can't understand "this is a first draft, and things will get changed" or what a "first step" actually means. This could very well be a starting point for what eventually becomes information warfare. The difference here is that I'm looking at the long term, not short term.

[Kmieciu]

coe7, on 11 September 2015 - 02:18 PM, said:

It's not my problem if you do not understand that there is no such thing as information warfare as presented here. Targetting data is not usefull information. (shocknews?) You know by chassis and what it fires where to shoot if its XL or not, you will go for CT on everything else, gunarms on mechs that pose them, etc. Now with tier play, where majority of people can aim, there is no longer chances of major splash damage all over the mech. Mechs are called as they are seen, shot on target priority level.

So what if it takes now bit longer to take targeting data on a good mech? I get to see yellow CT bit later where I would place my alpha regardless while peaking around the corner?

You don't really have faintest idea how bad majority of mechs now are due this patch, and how overpowered are those few mechs that carry high alpha with 0 sensor boosts? You will always choose what ever brings most of damage, since by default, this game is about majority shooting at few targets, thats where you move your troops. Ergo. Damage wins. Now with this ****, many hulls gets its damage potential removed due imagenary information warfare.

This guy has 20 forum posts, yet has better understanding of MWO's mechanics than the "so called" lead designer...
I have personally witnessed matches where all mechs were covered with ECM from the beginning to the end. Nobody was able to get a lock. And yet high alphas to the CT won the day. ERML FTW!

[aniviron]

Hal Greaves, on 11 September 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Nobody plays with this mech anyways so whats the difference?

If your approach to balance is "Just don't even bother with the bad mechs" why are you even participating in a balance discussion?

[Phoenix Gray]

So my lasers still won't scratch a DWF's paint but with upgraded infotech my mech can download pjørn faster? Sounds great! (Jes' kiddin'.)

I'll saddle up a mech or two from each weight class and give them a try.