28 replies to this topic

[Telmasa]

Starting off with omni mechs:

From what I can tell, omni pods with fewer or no hardpoints give more bonuses - making them a worthwhile choice, e.g. 2xERPPC Adder - rather than putting them in the torsos, if you put the ERPPCs in the arms now & use certain torso pods, you get buffs to maneuverability and/or sensors (roughly speaking).

I'd just like to voice that I LOVE this idea, it creates a reason (for Omni mechs, at the least) to use erstwhile "pointless" omnipods. There's real, tangible reasons to not revert to "metamech" builds or stripping arms now.

(The downside is it will mean rigorously going through all the rebalanced omnipods for each 'Mech that I own, lol, but I can live with that)
___

With non-omni mechs, I'm very glad to see weapon quirks gone altogether - that was the greatest cause of balance problems, and it's a relief to see it all go.

Now, all equipment will perform as advertised on any mech it's put upon - it won't get magic powers anymore.

That aspect feels like true Battletech again.

Only "downside" is that I'll have to reconsider my hangar: I try to have at least one "platform" for each (viable) weapon in the game, and without the Power Ranger Super Quirks defining everything related to that, I now have the option to choose many different 'Mechs to make good use of each particular weapon.

Which isn't really a downside, depending on your perspective!
___

I'll probably spend my time this evening taking advantage of the anniversary event, but I'm looking forward to testing out things here on the PTS as well.

With so many complaints and nitpicking sure to arise (if it hasn't already), I'd like to say that from my own point of view, this is looking like a Job Well Done, PGI!

[MechaBattler]

Well of course you're happy. Suddenly IS mechs have inferior firepower. : /

The only reason people complained about quirks. Is because suddenly the IS quirked mechs were real threats. Now they might get your data faster before they get blasted out of clan range by better firepower. ¬_¬

Edited by MechaBattler, 11 September 2015 - 04:04 PM.

[Telmasa]

MechaBattler, on 11 September 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Well of course you're happy. Suddenly IS mechs have inferior firepower. : /

The only reason people complained about quirks. Is because suddenly the IS quirked mechs were real threats. Now they might get your data faster before they get blasted out of clan range by better firepower. ¬_¬

I own more IS mechs than I do Clan mechs, bub. I'm just as enthusiastic about this change for my IS mechs as I am about the Clan ones.

As Russ has stated in the townhall, the weapon balance is something that can be considered after this overall 'Mech balance update is released.

It certainly would be impossible to try and balance weapons if we held on to the weapon quirks.

____


I'd like to add on that I think the sensor changes (largely affected by the new quirk system) is quite interesting...many "LRM boat" mechs won't be favored anymore, and many light mechs do indeed now have a role when it comes to sensor warfare (not just related to ECM/BAP interaction).


edit: Even the *HEAD* omnipods now have tangible differences! Wicked!

Edited by Telmasa, 11 September 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Telmasa, on 11 September 2015 - 04:23 PM, said:

I own more IS mechs than I do Clan mechs, bub. I'm just as enthusiastic about this change for my IS mechs as I am about the Clan ones.

As Russ has stated in the townhall, the weapon balance is something that can be considered after this overall 'Mech balance update is released.

It certainly would be impossible to try and balance weapons if we held on to the weapon quirks.

____


I'd like to add on that I think the sensor changes (largely affected by the new quirk system) is quite interesting...many "LRM boat" mechs won't be favored anymore, and many light mechs do indeed now have a role when it comes to sensor warfare (not just related to ECM/BAP interaction).


edit: Even the *HEAD* omnipods now have tangible differences! Wicked!

Well assuming that it's true, that they'll do a weapon quirk pass later, perhaps they should make that clear before people taint the feedback with outrage over the firepower imbalance.

Firepower+range rates much higher than sensors, agility, and structure quirks. Especially as some mechs got stiffed in those departments. Like half of the Vindicators apparently only rate structure quirks to the arm and they get some negative sensor quirks. That's a mech I hardly ever saw in matches.

Who are you playing against that LRMboats are super prevalent?

[Telmasa]

Quirk pass? You misunderstood. I mean *WEAPON* balance. As in the stats of individual weapons.

Forget about the quirks.

The fact that you & so many others have become so singly focused upon weapon quirks as the defining factor of the game is exactly why they have to be removed.


p.s. Where did I say the words "LRMboats are super prevalent", anyway? That's not what my point was about.

[Andi Nagasia]

no Weapon Quirks = higher TTK = longer better games,
also most IS mechs got much more Durability, just look at the AS7,

=Atlas AS7-D=
Acceration +20%
Deceleration +20%
Turn Rate +25%
Additional Structure CT +50
Additional Structure LT +47
Additional Structure RT +47
Additional Structure LA +49
Additional Structure RA +48
Additional Structure LL +47
Additional Structure RL +47
Torso Turn Angle (YAW) +20
Torso Turn Rate (YAW) +10%
Target Retention time -2
Target Scan Time Short Range +400%
Target Scan Time Medium Range +82.5%
Target Scan Time Long Range +20%
Target Acquisition Delay +4

[Kosmaj]

Andi Nagasia, on 11 September 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

no Weapon Quirks = higher TTK = longer better games,
also most IS mechs got much more Durability, just look at the AS7,

=Atlas AS7-D=
Acceration +20%
Deceleration +20%
Turn Rate +25%
Additional Structure CT +50

^
This mean +1 alpha from dire wolf on gauss and ppc. Yeah, this will make this game sooooo much longer

[patibaul]

Long game for all IS mech, and batter game for clan, nice done?

[Tahribator]

This "idea" you like is already in the game and arguably better implemented. On quirked Clan 'Mechs omnipods with no or little hardpoints always offer better quirks.

[Lily from animove]

Telmasa, on 11 September 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Starting off with omni mechs:

From what I can tell, omni pods with fewer or no hardpoints give more bonuses - making them a worthwhile choice, e.g. 2xERPPC Adder - rather than putting them in the torsos, if you put the ERPPCs in the arms now & use certain torso pods, you get buffs to maneuverability and/or sensors (roughly speaking).

sry best example of how broken it actually truly is.

the 2 PPC torso adder is a poke adder, pop oout fire return.
ther eis 0 balance in the change, the arms are still unappealing, since in this behavior you just forwrd, pop, return. all angle and torso needed quirks are irrelvant here. also the usual taregt time on the adder no matter in whcih config is so bad you will never "poke out - wait for tagretign -fire" even the best quirked PPC adder will not do tha unless he wants to end as a pile of scrap. You will still "pop out, fire on mech of sight, return" No one ain't time for locks that allow you to get a gauss in the face.

Most quirks are not chosen well in consideration of "what matters in MWO" it really does not care if I have 1.5 secons to target or 10s. Both in skilled gamplay is "too long" and with this in mind there is no downside past that break even point making a quirk in general "not having a use".

The values are not chosen well in terms of true benefits of what matters.

tbh, this requirking just as the lat will make me not buy any packs anymor, because those quirk passes made 2/3rd of the mechs inferior, which is just plain out making them pointless and by this "dead" invenstment. I need now like 4 of each chassis variant to make sure the latest quirk pass makes me have the mech of performance possible. And this is ot what "omnimechs" should have been fore. on omnimchs I should ahve been able to alter ALL omnimechs into the same mech (excluding unique CT variants).

I don't have interest in entirely dead mechs, or inferior stuff. i do not pilot the meta, I pilot the mechs I like. But when those alrady inferior mechs eve amongst each other have inferior or dead variants, thats beyond sad. Thats a desert where all tears of pity have already been vaporised to a degree where my dry eyes can not see the advertised packs anymore PGI offers to buy them.

Andi Nagasia, on 11 September 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

no Weapon Quirks = higher TTK = longer better games,
also most IS mechs got much more Durability, just look at the AS7,

=Atlas AS7-D=
Acceration +20%
Deceleration +20%
Turn Rate +25%
Additional Structure CT +50
Additional Structure LT +47
Additional Structure RT +47
Additional Structure LA +49
Additional Structure RA +48
Additional Structure LL +47
Additional Structure RL +47
Torso Turn Angle (YAW) +20
Torso Turn Rate (YAW) +10%
Target Retention time -2
Target Scan Time Short Range +400%
Target Scan Time Medium Range +82.5%
Target Scan Time Long Range +20%
Target Acquisition Delay +4

prime example of how broken this, is, comparing this atlas to the others ho is this related to firepower?
nearly all the other atlas can do a rather similar build firepower wise but those values are "overdone" in comparison to the other Atlas. Especially when you copare the D with the RS.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 September 2015 - 03:33 AM.

[VirtualSmitty]

Andi Nagasia, on 11 September 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

no Weapon Quirks = higher TTK = longer better games,
also most IS mechs got much more Durability, just look at the AS7,

=Atlas AS7-D=
Acceration +20%
Deceleration +20%
Turn Rate +25%
Additional Structure CT +50
Additional Structure LT +47
Additional Structure RT +47
Additional Structure LA +49
Additional Structure RA +48
Additional Structure LL +47
Additional Structure RL +47
Torso Turn Angle (YAW) +20
Torso Turn Rate (YAW) +10%
Target Retention time -2
Target Scan Time Short Range +400%
Target Scan Time Medium Range +82.5%
Target Scan Time Long Range +20%
Target Acquisition Delay +4

Except all that structure does jack since the Atlas needed armor. And they tried to make it a short range machine but nerfed it's short range sensors into the ground. How exactly is that good?

These Atlas quirks are a great example of just how out of touch PGI is with it's own game. I wonder if any of them even play it.

[Yokaiko]

Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, on 12 September 2015 - 03:45 AM, said:

Except all that structure does jack since the Atlas needed armor. And they tried to make it a short range machine but nerfed it's short range sensors into the ground. How exactly is that good?

These Atlas quirks are a great example of just how out of touch PGI is with it's own game. I wonder if any of them even play it.

All of that structure is really only good for keeping the right arm attached for another hit or two, but without armor any ballistic fitted is going to be knocked out anyway.

[ApolloKaras]

Andi Nagasia, on 11 September 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

no Weapon Quirks = higher TTK = longer better games,

Thats not how it's been playing though. Mostly scouts are moving out and everyone is rofl blobbing. Then the blobs just collide in a melee lol.

[Yokaiko]

Saxie, on 12 September 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

Thats not how it's been playing though. Mostly scouts are moving out and everyone is rofl blobbing. Then the blobs just collide in a melee lol.

To be fair that is because most of the players I've seen on the PTS were among the better players in the game, they can shoot, they stay tight and generally communicate.

[ApolloKaras]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 04:04 AM, said:

To be fair that is because most of the players I've seen on the PTS were among the better players in the game, they can shoot, they stay tight and generally communicate.

This is true, but Im surprised at the lack of ranged play. Although that could be people just getting used to things.

[VirtualSmitty]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

All of that structure is really only good for keeping the right arm attached for another hit or two, but without armor any ballistic fitted is going to be knocked out anyway.

I know, the quirks don't address the problem with the Atlas' primary weapon slot being knocked out early. It needs armor so it can live long enough to actually get into a brawl.

[Yokaiko]

Saxie, on 12 September 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

This is true, but Im surprised at the lack of ranged play. Although that could be people just getting used to things.

That is because at the higher end very little poking happens, all of the poking is pot shots taken early, after that you close and crush (or be crushed) whoever keeps it together wins. This is the exact style you see from the better 12 mans in the group queue and in CW with the relentless press that makes puggies cry about getting spawn camped.

Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, on 12 September 2015 - 04:07 AM, said:

I know, the quirks don't address the problem with the Atlas' primary weapon slot being knocked out early. It needs armor so it can live long enough to actually get into a brawl.

Debatable, and Atlas D-DC was my usual chassis when I played competitively.

[ApolloKaras]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

That is because at the higher end very little poking happens

ummmmmmmmmmmm I don't know about that....


Just watch a comp match about the first 7-10 minutes are nothing but poke.

Edited by Saxie, 12 September 2015 - 04:18 AM.

[VirtualSmitty]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

Debatable, and Atlas D-DC was my usual chassis when I played competitively.

I still regularly run the Atlas as well (never the DDC though, I avoid ecm cheese), I still do well in it. Armor quirks like what the last Highlander and battlemaster got would do wonders. or Something along the lines of what the Zeus got. It's weapon hardpoints don't hold a candle to the other two 100 toners in terms of offensive firepower, armor would go a long way.

[Yokaiko]

Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, on 12 September 2015 - 04:16 AM, said:

I still regularly run the Atlas as well (never the DDC though, I avoid ecm cheese), I still do well in it. Armor quirks like what the last Highlander and battlemaster got would do wonders. or Something along the lines of what the Zeus got. It's weapon hardpoints don't hold a candle to the other two 100 toners in terms of offensive firepower, armor would go a long way.

Agreed, instead the D got those structure bonuses (which don't protect the ballistic) and the D-DC got the shaft.