431 replies to this topic

[Galenit]

Monkey Lover, on 12 September 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

I bought the grid because of the quirks. It made it different than the others 4g 4h. I bought the ilya to 3x gauss that we removed too. Most the mechs I buy for a reason why is this a bad thing? I don't buy them for their looks like some people hehe

Because it courages p2w,
what leeds to nerfs for the real money mechs when they come out for cbills,
because for cbills there would be to much of this "better" mechs in matches.

You use p2w, you should now, that in mwo p2w is only temporary because of powercreep.

[Monkey Lover]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 September 2015 - 07:52 AM, said:

So, you bought it because you knew it was massively overquirked (50% Cooldown vs 25%??), in a game with Dynamic Balancing (glacially slow dynamic balancing, but still ever changing)..... and you are now upset that it finally is addressed? After seeing the TDR-9S quirked, etc?

Huh.

If they were(are) so over quirked you would think comp players would be using them? I don't know why you're saying I am upset. I don't even use it that often because its not that good. When I do its just for fun.

[Monkey Lover]

Galenit, on 12 September 2015 - 07:55 AM, said:

Because it courages p2w,
what leeds to nerfs for the real money mechs when they come out for cbills,
because for cbills there would be to much of this "better" mechs in matches.

You use p2w, you should now, that in mwo p2w is only temporary because of powercreep.

Lol 3x gauss on a ilya was a joke build and grid was never good even with quirks. Only p2w in this game is clan mechs before they hit cbills.

[Yokaiko]

Grisbane, on 12 September 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

the grid is one mech.. mechs like the huggin were originally sold with the unique quirks.. most F2P dev's won't touch paid product because of bait-and-switch and all the backlash it causes.. you do realize if this goes live the masses that don't read the forums will notice.. what do you think will happen when they feel like they have been ripped off? my bet is that people like you will have a very hard time getting a match and when you do, it will be the same people almost every match.. because they are the only people on the server.. messing with real money items is bad business, even for F2P games

PGI has been pulling that crap for years, putting mech on sale and nerfing them the next week? Muppets and Dragon Slayer

Waiting for the C-bill release to nerf a chassis (to many to list)

I can't wait to read the steam reviews.

[Tahribator]

LordBraxton, on 12 September 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

I am amazed because there are a lot of names in this thread I normally vehemently disagree with..

But today we can all agree!

Gods help us all.

I'm seeing the same thing happening as well. They managed to unite the community again. The last time this happened was when they announced the Clans and gold 'Mechs when the game was in a very bad shape.

[Bishop Steiner]

Grisbane, on 12 September 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

the grid is one mech.. mechs like the huggin were originally sold with the unique quirks.. most F2P dev's won't touch paid product because of bait-and-switch and all the backlash it causes.. you do realize if this goes live the masses that don't read the forums will notice.. what do you think will happen when they feel like they have been ripped off? my bet is that people like you will have a very hard time getting a match and when you do, it will be the same people almost every match.. because they are the only people on the server.. messing with real money items is bad business, even for F2P games

ummm....no, the Huginn was released without those levels of quirks too. And regardless, again, the point is that balancing is dynamic on all these f2p games. And it is even stated in the EULA< etc, that all things are subject to change.

[Kira Onime]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 08:08 AM, said:

PGI has been pulling that crap for years, putting mech on sale and nerfing them the next week? Muppets and Dragon Slayer

You're in a pvp game. Nerfs are bound to happen if they release something that's too strong.
This isn,t something exclusive to PGI and MWO.

[Astrocanis]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

I never saw the rage about the Timber, I have always (and to this day) done better in other chassis.

Then obviously the rage is wrong. Competitions where TBRs dominate are done by people who have no clue about it.

I played Timbies for a while. I could be killed. After I had done an average of 600+ damage in it. My experience is different than yours. Which one of our experiences are invalid?

I stand by my snark: Obviously the Timberwolf was too awkward and easy to kill.

[Yokaiko]

It was decent but I have others I much prefer, Hellbringer and Stormcrow for clan, Stalker, and Thud for IS.

Kira_Onime, on 12 September 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

You're in a pvp game. Nerfs are bound to happen if they release something that's too strong.
This isn,t something exclusive to PGI and MWO.

Yeah, but this isn't coincidence, its been a very repeatable pattern, going back years....that Murromets nerf I mentioned was in 2013.

We used to call mech sales "the kiss of death"

Edited by Yokaiko, 12 September 2015 - 08:22 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Grisbane, on 12 September 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

and what balance are these mechs getting? they have fewer hardpoints than every other variant? adding stucture just means the enemy gets more credits and xp for an easy kill against a rather defenseless mech.

For that, we will have to wait and see, now won't we? Since for one thing, we all know and mostly agree Weapons themselves need a rebalance, you really cannot accurately fix the weapons themselves with the wildly disparate quirks we saw on them.

Are there legit concerns with what we are seeing? Certainly.

The chicken little, sky is falling, immature whinging tone most people are taking about it? Not likely to have any beneficial effect.

Perhaps if more people tried post well reasoned, researched counterpoints? But that would take effort, of course.

[Kira Onime]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:

Yeah, but this isn't coincidence, its been a very repeatable pattern, going back years....that Murromets nerf I mentioned was in 2013.

Again, this isn't something exclusive to PGI or MWO. THis happens in any kind of PVP games.

[EgoSlayer]

cSand, on 12 September 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Lol I went to bed and this train is still rollin


I love the amount of tears in here


Fear change, peasants!!!

It's not fear of change, you have to be completely blind to believe that. The system, as in place now, is fundamentally flawed. Whatever logic is present to create the quirk passes is either flawed, or the representation of it is broken on the PTS. We know the latter is true in the case of a few mechs, Mr Gargles and the Enforcers that have what can only be transcription errors.

Take off your white knight cape for a minute and look at it objectively.
1 ) With the current design of the game, maps, targeting, etc, sensor quirks are near useless on a balance scale vs firepower and mobility. About the only thing they do in the planned model is make LRMs even more useless, which some may see as a plus.
2 ) Structure quirks are the lowest benefit chassis quirks. Armor quirks are much more useful for both combat effectiveness and survive-ability.

Without even considering weapon quirks; this balance pass makes things *worse* than the balance at the initial Clan release. It doesn't accomplish any sort of balance and in fact swings the balance in favor of clans to a greater benefit then they had initially. To counter-act this imbalance would require *even more* weapons quirks for the IS to make up the deficit.


So you can go about putting your head in the sand and calling people peasants, but anyone with half a brain can see this balance system's foundation is flawed and building more layers on top of this balance system is going to make things worse, not better.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 12 September 2015 - 08:33 AM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Left my constructive feedback on this post and in the PTR forum because I actually care about this game. Its the best I can do!

Edited by Alwrath, 12 September 2015 - 08:31 AM.

[Yokaiko]

EgoSlayer, on 12 September 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

It's not fear of change, you have to be completely blind to believe that. The system, as in place now, is fundamentally flawed. Whatever logic is present to create the quirk passes is either flawed, or the representation of it is broken on the PTS. We know the latter is true in the case of a few mechs, Mr Gargles and the Enforcers that have what can only be transcription errors.

Take off your white knight cape for a minute and look at it objectively.
1 ) With the current design of the game, maps, targeting, etc, sensor quirks are near useless on a balance scale vs firepower and mobility. About the only thing they do in the planned model is make LRMs even more useless, which some may see as a plus.
2 ) Structure quirks are the lowest benefit chassis quirks. Armor quirks are much more useful for both combat effectiveness and survive-ability.

Without even considering weapon quirks this; balance pass makes things *worse* that the balance at the initial Clan release. It doesn't accomplish any sort of balance and in fact swings the balance in favor of clans to a greater benefit then they had initially. To counter-act this imbalance would require *even more* weapons quirks for the IS to make up the deficit.


So you can go about putting your head in the sand and calling people peasants, but anyone with have a brain can see this balance system's foundation is flawed and building more layers on top of this balance system is going to make things worse, not better.

Kira_Onime, on 12 September 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Again, this isn't something exclusive to PGI or MWO. THis happens in any kind of PVP games.

Kira_Onime, on 12 September 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Again, this isn't something exclusive to PGI or MWO. THis happens in any kind of PVP games.

One of the thousand reason I ******* detest F2P

I'm not paying for the game, I'm paying for items, and the items jump all over the board, this is the reason I stopped paying PGI at all, and will continue to not pay a penny. Its not worth it.

[Juodas Varnas]

EgoSlayer, on 12 September 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

So you can go about putting your head in the sand and calling people peasants,

Pun intended? Since you're quoting cSand.

Not that i'm complaining. I love puns.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 12 September 2015 - 08:31 AM.

[SilentWolff]

Its been patently obvious since the beginning that PGI is incompetent, but the level of incompetence shown on the PTS is quite frankly, staggering.

[DivineTomatoes]

if it goes through like it is now I wonder what mechs will become extinct. Huginn, why bother using it, it was crap before and it will be crap again without weapon quirks of some magnitude. I won't even touch my beloved urbanmech.

Vindicators, they where already rare but now why bother. The same goes for treebuckets.

Apart from certain mechs probably becoming extinct it seems to me the clams don't get punished at all. Sure they get negative quirks but they can compensate for that with omnipods. But they retain their range advantage so they can earn more damage, cbills and xp on IS mechs while they try to get into range to return the favour.

Still I can hope this is just part 1 of the rebalance and PGI hasn't utterly lost their minds.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

The shift from weapons quirks to Mobility, Durability, and Intelligence quirks is the best move PGI could make. It is the only move they could make to support actual role warfare.
That being said, I'm not wasting time focusing on these numbers, they are just an initial pass. And just like before, the metawhores will drift to the cream of the crop, and then weep when those variants are brought back in line.

[Deathlike]

Bishop Steiner, on 12 September 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Perhaps if more people tried post well reasoned, researched counterpoints? But that would take effort, of course.

That was already done, by the comp groups on their own. The issue that they've had (at least according to them) is that half of the related input was ignored.

Even then, such reasoned posts from non-comp groups are more or less the same... ignored in part (selective reasoning/selection) of stuff is a common theme.

It's hard to want to write up something that routinely gets ignored... and it doesn't even have to be about balance.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 September 2015 - 08:39 AM.

[Yokaiko]

A member of my unit got so fed up that he is banned from the forums forever, and he was one of not-so-secret-squirrels that was doing play testing.

He had erm ..........less than complimentary............things to say to Nerfinator, and said them flat out.