431 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

Hydrocarbon, on 12 September 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

You aren't seeing the forest for the trees. A lot of people ARE these crybabies you disdain. A lot of those crybabies are giving PGI cash, which becomes their principal operating capitol, of which they CAN'T SURVIVE WITHOUT. These crybabies are what provide for future mech packs.

There's also the fact that people have a plethora of game choices, and the moment a game becomes unfun - people leave in droves. Considering that mechwarrior's alure has been it's simulation aspect, the fact that another hardcore sim (Star Citi-something?) is coming out relatively soon for much less should make you reconsider how all this whining will impact you.



No funs = no moneys = no PGI = no MWO = your toys completely unplayable

ive seen how alot of these crybabies play.
then i wonder how they can actually think someone should listen to them because they dont even understood the basics of teamplay, how to position or how to support at all.
most of them are selfish, egoistical campers.
they dont dare to push because ohmmygod their mechs can get damaged and they die with a bad score.
they dont run out to support a mech in need of help.
they got the biggest mouth of all ingame while all they done is waiting for your teammates to do the work they dont have the guts to do.

yes i am not afraid to say that the majority of the players have no idea how to play this game as it should be. a teamoriented game. one for all, all for one.
even in solo queue it should be like that but its NOT.
its all about the I which makes me mad many times.

before you reply *i want to play this game as i want to play it*
im not caring. i love battletech and nowhere, in no single way it was about one vs all somewhere.
alot of mechs in this game NEED the team to be played well because they been DESIGNED like that.

and thats how i play this game. thinking behind a mechs role and play according to that. if i play a damn assault then i push like a assault should do. but guess what: i see hiding people in the thickest, most sturdy mechs EVERYWHERE and keep sitting still forever.

best proof on how much the players dont understand a single thing.
you have to keep one thing in mind. there are 11 other players with you that want to have fun. everyone plays different. everyone has a different kind of fun. if you dont try to play as a team no one will have some damn fun in here.

Edited by Alienized, 12 September 2015 - 01:59 PM.

[cSand]

EgoSlayer, on 12 September 2015 - 08:26 AM, said:

It's not fear of change, you have to be completely blind to believe that. The system, as in place now, is fundamentally flawed. Whatever logic is present to create the quirk passes is either flawed, or the representation of it is broken on the PTS. We know the latter is true in the case of a few mechs, Mr Gargles and the Enforcers that have what can only be transcription errors.

Take off your white knight cape for a minute and look at it objectively.
1 ) With the current design of the game, maps, targeting, etc, sensor quirks are near useless on a balance scale vs firepower and mobility. About the only thing they do in the planned model is make LRMs even more useless, which some may see as a plus.
2 ) Structure quirks are the lowest benefit chassis quirks. Armor quirks are much more useful for both combat effectiveness and survive-ability.

Without even considering weapon quirks; this balance pass makes things *worse* than the balance at the initial Clan release. It doesn't accomplish any sort of balance and in fact swings the balance in favor of clans to a greater benefit then they had initially. To counter-act this imbalance would require *even more* weapons quirks for the IS to make up the deficit.


So you can go about putting your head in the sand and calling people peasants, but anyone with half a brain can see this balance system's foundation is flawed and building more layers on top of this balance system is going to make things worse, not better.

so what you're saying here is you're afraid of change right beausd anyone with half brain can see that the changes they made aren't gonna be the finished product


continue to scream and stamp your feet with the rabble though

Edited by cSand, 12 September 2015 - 01:49 PM.

[ApolloKaras]

Burktross, on 12 September 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

Hey, any old forum warriors? How big do y'all think blowout will be vs 3pv?

The 3rd person thing was blown out of proportion. People jumped to conclusions and immediately imagined MW4 when they heard about it.

[Red Shrike]

Saxie, on 12 September 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

The 3rd person thing was blown out of proportion. People jumped to conclusions and immediately imagined MW4 when they heard about it.

I love MW4.

[tucsonspeed6]

I've played the test server. There's good and bad. I can see where they were going with the 4 point score (Firepower, Survivability, Agility, and Sensors), and in some cases it works well. Other cases were poorly conceived. There's a middleground to be reached without having to jump to baseless hyperbole. Saying it sucks and PGI is stupid without saying what you didn't like about the changes isn't feedback. It's a tantrum.

I play a lot of Dragons and Blackjacks, so those were what I focused on. I realize that my sweet DRG-1N weapon cooldown buffs are gone, but I don't mind. It got a sweet agility buff that I can work with. All of the Dragons have a unique feel that makes each one worth piloting, and they all feel powerful in their own way. The 1N is a nimble striker, the 1C a sniper, the 5N a crit seeker. I like where they went with the Dragon, and I would hope that the same balancing is reached with all of the mechs.

I didn't care for what they did with the Blackjack, though. It's a mech we don't see a lot on the field, but it barely got quirked at all. I think someone looked at the high mounted weapons and assumed it was a hill-humping darling. And the difference between the BJ-1 and the BJ-1DC is a matter of jump-jets on the 1 vs 2 extra energy points on the DC. Frankly, I'd see the edge going to the 1 with it's mobility, but it got the additional buffs. Are 2 extra laser slots on the torsos really so OP that the DC deserves to get nerfed in comparison? I'm not getting what they were thinking on that one. Likewise, the 1X is misjudged: It gets sensor nerfs to its close and medium range, so it would seem that they're pushing us to use it as a sniper. A sniper with 8 energy hardpoints? Really? And why is it nerfed so hard compared to the BJ-3?

I'm not saying that PGI should take this whole concept back to the drawing board. I can get the benefits of the changes over the big-picture. I just don't get some of the individual choices they made. This can work, but it needs to be tweaked.

[Mazzyplz]

oh i gave my feedback in the proper place, here is where i come to post memes

[Davers]

Kodyn, on 11 September 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

I'm hoping it's just the barest, skeletal outline of some rough ideas they have, and in no way close to what they'd deem finished, because lord, is it rough.

Like, feels like whoever came up with it has been playing a different game from us rough.

I'm glad they're putting time and effort into it, of course, I just hope they go in a completely different direction from what they're showing so far.

This post could easily have been pulled from the Closed Beta forums.

ChapeL, on 11 September 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

True, we did and as I recall it was mostly meant so the Awesome and other mechs in its position could leave the basement of mediocrity they were in. Sadly the current quirks on weapons are driving TTK times down across the board. Remove the clans completely from the game and it would still hold true. Now if this new system manages to "incentivize" ( almost wrote punish) clan players to field mechs with fewer hardpoints ( in order to minimize the negative quirks like FupDup's picture shows) we might have a means to drive TTK back up where it belongs.

I knew something was wrong when they started handing out quirks to every single mech that was released. Instead of helping out underperforming mechs, they just made all mechs just generally better- and the posterboy of the whole quirk movement, the Awesome, still sat on the bench.

Anarcho, on 11 September 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

I read this topic and all I see is" boo hoo they took mah metah!"

"Omg timber wolf with positive quircks!" None of then are weapons related...

Jesus, give it a chance... they are trying to level all mechs somehow, even focusing more in roles, which is something everybody was asking too...

Put some ice on your butts, because things are going to change.

No one has weapon quirks. Just like before they added quirks where IS mechs flat out couldn't compete. And if adding several seconds of 'ECM' to every mech is "focusing on roles" than you and I have a very different definition of what a role is.

DaZur, on 11 September 2015 - 09:13 PM, said:

You kids crack me up...

As per usual this community goes into convulsions with "any" change that doesn't immediately placate some sub-set of expectations.

I get you concerns... I really do. That said, I'm not sure what flavor of perfection you guys were expecting from a first-blush pass on this?

So long as this sort of thing is run on the test-server and we continue to have some semblance of input, I'm not quite prepared to run for the fallout shelter just yet...

"R-E-L-A-X" ~ Aaron Rodgers.

Except that this was supposed to roll out to the live servers in 10 days (originally). So they figured one more patch to adjust some things and it's good to go. This is a fully released game. We can't just keep giving them passes like we were still in Beta.

Darth Bane001, on 11 September 2015 - 11:33 PM, said:

About damn time clans felt superior again IS has had it pretty dandy for months now.

Lots of Clan Apologists seem to have this view.

[NocturnalBeast]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

This PTS didn't just hurt my butt, it also hurt my soul.

I feel like a lesser human being for having witnessed and played with the changes on it.

So melodramatic, like a drunk woman during that time of the month watching a chick flick! Seriously, this rebalancing is PGI desperately trying to make this game appeal to both real MW / Btech fans and casual players (when you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no one). Seriously, they need to decide if MWO is "A Battletech Game" or just some giant robot casual game .

[Clay Pigeon]

If they nerf hero mechs there will be backlash (and people who paid with credit cards might try to get their money back).

[wanderer]

And now, of course the PTR is closed.

Better luck Monday.

[Kazvall]

STOP GIVING PGI MONEY AND TELLING THEM WHAT THEY ARE DOING IS RIGHT

[AdamBaines]

Sarlic, on 12 September 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

Problem is you shouldnt let the Community decide in important game decisions. See the rediculous PSR poll. The amount of people who voted on full disclosure alone should be something to consider about your future...........

This whole post +100

Man we differ often Sar,but your right on with this. So much whine and complaining, I feel like Im listening to a bunch of 6 years olds throwing tantrums. And Im sure every single one of them is an IT professional whos skills are 100% better the anyone at PGI.

Edited by AdamBaines, 12 September 2015 - 05:21 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

AdamBaines, on 12 September 2015 - 05:19 PM, said:

This whole post +100

Man we differ often Sar,but your right on with this. So much whine and complaining, I feel like Im listening to a bunch of 6 years olds throwing tantrums. And Im sure every single one of them is an IT professional whos skills are 100% better the anyone at PGI.

i'm getting there, i'm short of the built renderer and all of the netcode.
what you seem to imply though is that IT experience or programming = game design.

and this is a serious flaw of reasoning.

balancing a game has the same strategies on playing cards than in a game like this. (well at least for the initial design - minus tweaking and playtest cause this is what playtesting is for) and it is totally different than what you need to make the art or the engine or whatever else you have to do technically to make the game work

game design is it's own craft, separate from systems engineering/programming or drawing/animating/3dmodeling

you could easily excel at programming and fail to make a great game.
like what happened to john carmack. hes all about pushing the tech envelope, and his gameplay is always a corridor shooter, just looks increasingly better each year - this is just an example.

then you also have to realize there are TONS of game designers working and most of them fail to make good games, you just have to look at the range from all the throwaway mobile games that just sank (even put up by big companies like konami) and the usage of the same gameplay year after year (like call of duty)
or triple A games failing to make interesting or good gameplay like Ryse, or the order 1886 ETC... plenty of triple A blunders

Edited by Mazzyplz, 12 September 2015 - 06:20 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Hydrocarbon, on 12 September 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

These crybabies are what provide for future mech packs.

crybabies like me who add up the amount theyve spent and realize its almost $1k ($960) not counting that I built my PC just to play this game as well

Davers, on 12 September 2015 - 04:27 PM, said:

This is a fully released game. We can't just keep giving them passes like we were still in Beta.

yup and its coming upon being two years old as well

[Yokaiko]

Frosty Brand, on 12 September 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

IF, I stress if, they are working procedurally, the next changes on pts (before this goes live, I hope...) we'll see are the over the top quirks being removed, and some of the structure quirks changing to armor. Possibly some weaker mechs (huggin seems the poster child) getting weapon quirks again.

Procedurally there would be some control, hey guys, we are setting IS vs IS, then clan vs clan then IS vs clan, you know a focused test.

None of that, they dorked around with every mech in the game all (what 310 individual chassis), and what did we get?

Clan mechs, the info-crap is annoying but you can shift pods around to get ride of most of it (the BUFFED Gauss Timber that is getting flashed around), likewise DWF and crow, moving legs and heads around removes a lot of sesnors junk.

What you can't pod out of, Ice Fart now has a negative turn rate? Wut? This is a mech with 9 yes 9 tonnes of free space and easily removed arms.

......so about the IS

You get Cataphract that still look like Nerfinator is butthurt about poptarts, seriously the -3D has low long range scan, slower turn rate and accell/decell, the -0XP get, +turn, plus yaw and mild structure bonuses, so PGI is telling us god box < Hoverjets™? Because one more hardpoint and better locations for two is OP (how many -3Ds have you seen lately)

HBK-4G and -4P back to structure quirks, which means basically kiss the AC20 goodbye after first contact oh and by the way, both come with +200% SHORT range scan, both of these mechs come with ALL 270m weapons, but its takes three times as long to get a paperdoll when you using your "tough as nails brawler" Wut? GI's gauss quirk is gone in favor or Atlas -D scale structure bonuses, but now its a wash the -4G get movement bonuses and GI doesn't, so bye bye guass, we are back to being able to one shot the gun on hunchbacks, because that shoulder will have 48 armor is there is none on the rear.

This headscratching approach is repeated across the entire mechlab, so if the quirks were procedurally driven, its GI/GO Garbage in, Garbage out because its really really arbitrary.

[SpiralFace]

tucsonspeed6, on 12 September 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

I've played the test server. There's good and bad. I can see where they were going with the 4 point score (Firepower, Survivability, Agility, and Sensors), and in some cases it works well. Other cases were poorly conceived. There's a middleground to be reached without having to jump to baseless hyperbole. Saying it sucks and PGI is stupid without saying what you didn't like about the changes isn't feedback. It's a tantrum.

I play a lot of Dragons and Blackjacks, so those were what I focused on. I realize that my sweet DRG-1N weapon cooldown buffs are gone, but I don't mind. It got a sweet agility buff that I can work with. All of the Dragons have a unique feel that makes each one worth piloting, and they all feel powerful in their own way. The 1N is a nimble striker, the 1C a sniper, the 5N a crit seeker. I like where they went with the Dragon, and I would hope that the same balancing is reached with all of the mechs.

I didn't care for what they did with the Blackjack, though. It's a mech we don't see a lot on the field, but it barely got quirked at all. I think someone looked at the high mounted weapons and assumed it was a hill-humping darling. And the difference between the BJ-1 and the BJ-1DC is a matter of jump-jets on the 1 vs 2 extra energy points on the DC. Frankly, I'd see the edge going to the 1 with it's mobility, but it got the additional buffs. Are 2 extra laser slots on the torsos really so OP that the DC deserves to get nerfed in comparison? I'm not getting what they were thinking on that one. Likewise, the 1X is misjudged: It gets sensor nerfs to its close and medium range, so it would seem that they're pushing us to use it as a sniper. A sniper with 8 energy hardpoints? Really? And why is it nerfed so hard compared to the BJ-3?

I'm not saying that PGI should take this whole concept back to the drawing board. I can get the benefits of the changes over the big-picture. I just don't get some of the individual choices they made. This can work, but it needs to be tweaked.

Fully agree. Dragons look like an interesting nitche. They are a heavy with good mobility, good protection, AND some fairly good Info-warfare traits to them. Which makes it an interesting mech to play considering its not the greatest when it comes to loadouts.

The test server is a mess, but I would say that its more based on stuff that seems OBVIOUSLY wrong that simply wasn't addressed.

Even Paul came out and said + / - 3000% quirks are NOT working as intended, and everyone basically going off about how the T-wolf got BUFFS I feel is flat out trying to pull the wool over your eyes. Every T-wolf got massive nerfs to the CT, yet the S stayed EXACTLY where it was. (Which I will bet MC on was a data entry error.)

One of the things I haven't heard anywhere was really how the clan stuff that WASN'T obviously messed up is.

Nearly all clan mechs are fairly ok balanced in their canon configs (about as much buffing / nerfing as IS designs.) But It looks like they tried to level out the torso locations with one another, so strapping on that S jump jet torso, that A high mount monster, and that C CT that was so OBVIOUSLY the best config gets massive nerfs, but if you ground bound your T-wolf, or don't use the A torso, you actually get some decent buffs if you keep it ground bound.

Your not hearing about Strom crows, or Ebon Jagers because for the most part, they actually ended up fairly well rounded on their own.

They just need to fix up the Clan IS balance, Fix info warfare (come one guys, its the first frickin' pass on an all encompassing feature set in the game. Its not like ECM went smoothly on integration either.)

Edited by SpiralFace, 12 September 2015 - 07:17 PM.

[EgoSlayer]

cSand, on 12 September 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

so what you're saying here is you're afraid of change right beausd anyone with half brain can see that the changes they made aren't gonna be the finished product


continue to scream and stamp your feet with the rabble though

So what you're really saying here is 'I don't understand the problem and so I'll just continue to insult people who point it out'.

Nice multiple edits by the way, but hey at least this one is fairly tame.

You'll notice that most of us *are* looking past the actual values and looking at the underlying system and pointing out the flaws in how mechs are select for quirks, and what quirks are applied positive or negative. When the underlying system is buffing chassis that are already performing well and nerfing chassis that are already under-performing and rendering them even more impotent the fundamentals are flawed, not the raw numbers.

And the folly of even considering the sensor tier as a counterbalance/offset to any of the other three tiers of Firepower, Mobility, and Protection is mind boggling. In no current or near future version of MWO are we playing a stealth game where you get better pay outs by avoiding enemy contacts and combat. And that is the only time the sensor tier has any value over the others, unless they get to wall hack levels of boosts and then they have some value. We have already seen the sensorless future with the preponderance of ECM working as a proxy. All that completely breaks are Streaks and LRMs. Decreasing any of the other three tiers in favor of the sensor tier creates an under-performing chassis that likely won't be used in favor of one that has the better features in one or more of the other three tiers.

[Yokaiko]

EgoSlayer, on 12 September 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

We have already seen the sensorless future with the preponderance of ECM working as a proxy. All that completely breaks are Streaks and LRMs. Decreasing any of the other three tiers in favor of the sensor tier creates an under-performing chassis that likely won't be used in favor of one that has the better features in one or more of the other three tiers.

Ironically that is exactly how it played on PTS.

If I'm a Death Knell and can't lock an assault that I'm hitting with mlas... Yes, that happened.

[Elizander]

Yokaiko, on 12 September 2015 - 08:10 PM, said:

Ironically that is exactly how it played on PTS.

If I'm a Death Knell and can't lock an assault that I'm hitting with mlas... Yes, that happened.

How are those deceleration negative quirks on your flimsy light mech?

[Yokaiko]

Elizander, on 12 September 2015 - 09:02 PM, said:

How are those deceleration negative quirks on your flimsy light mech?

Since when do you ever decelerate with a mech that goes 171kph, you stay on the gas or get blapped like always.