108 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

And given [redacted] contradictory reasoning Paul just gave us for taking down the servers...

Theres really only two conclusions. It was too expensive. Or they didnt want us to keep doing comprehension reviews of mechs, and making videos of game play lol.

[KraftySOT]

Domenoth, on 12 September 2015 - 05:02 PM, said:

Was that really so hard?

Ask Paul. I didnt write the statement. He did. I just read what he wrote. I shouldnt have to parse nomenclature to figure out what he means. Either way he means it, its ridiculous. The PTS is not being effected by the event. The event is not being effected by the PTS.

Double XP event or not, there werent going to be alot of people playtesting this. People arent slaves. Most people dont want to do someone elses work for them, for free. They just wanted to see what the rebalance was about, we pulled the .pak files and shared that for everyone, people made collections of it, most of the community is then satisfied.

MAYBE two dozen people out of 100 or so are actually really interested in actually testing this and providing useful feedback. Then the rest of them are just playing with the new stuff.

None of these people care about a double XP weekend. The people that were in the match with me were all forumwarriors who were interested in the future of the game and helping direct that future. None of them were there to shoot gundams for fun.

Were the people who already have 1.7 million XP on our mechs that we cant spend on anything. We dont care about double XP. We care about the future and state of the game.

The PTS isnt supposed to be a place for shooting gundams. Its a place for testing gundams. (which of course shooting will be a part of that).

OF COURSE theres not a massive amount of people playing it. Most people dont want to test things. They want to have fun. The people who want to test things, THAT IS their fun.

The two groups are not going to switch sides.

Im not going to log in for the Double XP weekend, because I dont care about that. Shutting down the servers, is not going to get me to go play the live game.

Now im back to twiddling my thumbs waiting for the chance to finish my freaking report on the Banshee.

Edited by KraftySOT, 12 September 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[TheSteelRhino]

As noted above some chassis do need some love. That would very likely get those mechs played more

Get on cw phase III. Make owning planets worth something.

Also i still think u can help balance by adding in an actual economy. Buying ammo reloads IN THE MECH BAY, and maybe replacement lenses for lasers and capacitor for PPC might lead to a more diverse meta.

And for petes sake add collisions back in. That will help tone down light play somewhat. The problem with info warfare, is there is a limited number of maps and they arent all that big. And targetting info is shared with all mechs.
I would love to see C3 in this game

[Deathshade]

You can't really complain about things being broke if you don't want to test to help fix them.

but watch after this release. All the QQ'ing that will come from this across the board reset that was long overdue. I find that putting all the mechs on a number system that weights each mech logically was a good move. Now you can't really complain about balance but instead how you calculated the variables that established the values in the first place.

I think a good test of this new system would be take the data ,once it is given by the players, and compare it to the Kills/Deaths/Wins/Loss/Damage. If certain values are close to maximum and show the increased possibility to get kills, damage and wins being shown by the new system. There should be a correlation there, once you take in account your new PSR values (say maybe considere it a modifier for increased chances of K/D/W/L/Dmg), and then later on be used as a check and balances type system.

[Kali Rinpoche]

A little disappointed I just spent the last hour re-downloading the test server to find out it's been brought down. At least put it up so I can see the massive changes pushed on IS mechs. I have no problem with info warfare, but what I do have a problem with is this whole sale mudding of mechs, especially mobility. IF you take our IS mobility and weapon quirks away, what's the point of even playing? I own wave 1 and 2, but I don't want to be forced to switch to the clan factions. I remember getting stomped after clans were released and I don't want a repeat of that b/c you want Steam launch to be easier on new folks. I've been a long time supporter of the direction MWO was going and backed that up with a LOT of money, but I'm going to have to rethink my support if this goes live as it is now. (Just looking at quirks posted by folks in the forums makes my heart hurt.)

[Tennex]

Good move, like to see that PGI is responding to feedback in a humble and rational way

[KraftySOT]

Actually they just killed the feedback stream by taking down the servers.

Theyre not responding to the feedback, theyre running away screaming because of the feedback being so openly hostile.

Which is wrong, I admit, we as a community should not be screaming for their heads because they removed all the quirks. We dont even know if thats permanent or their intention or what. There was basically no real information, and its not like theyre here on the forums actively working with us.

They could have gotten Tina to post "HEY EVERYONE GO TEST ATLASES!" and we could have knocked that out in an hour with 24 people. Could have gotten some private matches together. Could have a bunch of videos for them. Could be having an active conversation about whats good and bad about the Atlas.

But nope.

The future of the game is either a "distraction" from the event, or the event is "distracting" people from the test.

Then why are there already a dozen full length reviews of mechs, their changes, and what could be done to help or nerf them?

No one was asking them to take this down. And theyre absolutely not "deleting it". Were getting these sensor quirks (which are awesome). The only people who were upset were the people who thought that the balance pass we were testing, was near finished, and we just reset the meta back to July 2014.

Now however, you got a bunch of people who didnt care about what all the naysayers were saying, who were actually doing work to help them out, who are mad lol.

Brilliant move PGI. Way to respond to feedback in a humble and rational way lol

[thinkn bout thos Beans mans game]

Now that the community has had it say, looks like the ball is in PGI's Chinese food court.

[KraftySOT]

Well at least this thread clued me in to someones alt "stealth" account. Yo IfUSeeMeUrTier5. Put the servers back up.

[Quintus Verus]

I hadn't gotten the chance to actually play on test this weekend, but I had heard from friends about some of the sensor quirks being interesting.

If you push this down our throats without addressing weapons (specifically clan weapons systems) you might as well string up an albatross on your mast and sail out into the north pacific.

Don't bring it back up unless you have an answer to weapons, b/c that will be the deal breaker for me about playing after any rebalance launch.

[An Anime Princess]

I'm going to play the swelling crescendo from The Phantom Pain as I salute and destroy all of my IS mechs.

Kaz... I'm already a clanner.

[KraftySOT]

ilKhan Judge Dreddrensky, on 12 September 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

Now that the community has had it say, looks like the ball is in PGI's Chinese food court.

I dont even feel like we got half way through the first word of the sentence of what the community has to say.

Its obvious we still need weapon quirks. The freakout over that is a little overboard. We get it. PGI gets it. Maybe Paul will get it too. Maybe its even not their intention to remove them, but to just have us test the sensors.

Either way...we never even got through all the variants of a single chassis. We can look up the values in the .paks, but as to how they actually function over the course of multiple games? Were not even close to seeing how each mechs performs and each combination of mechs performs.

Theres going to be some weird drop combinations where NO ONE has good sensors, and we need to play enough games for that to happen, so we can see what effect that has. There are lights, mediums, assaults, and heavies, that all have bad sensors. It would be rare to see all of them in the same match, but it can happen.

Theres an enormous amount of questions left unanswered. Including variants theres like 250 mechs. Its going to take months to go through them all.

Quintus Verus, on 12 September 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:

Don't bring it back up unless you have an answer to weapons, b/c that will be the deal breaker for me about playing after any rebalance launch.

See thats ridiculous. It easily will take the people working on it, the better part of October to go through all the variants and see how their sensors actually perform in games, and how all the different mechs work together in a game.

That all has to happen before we even get to weapons.

Its really easy to say "fix the weapons" but until we have EXTENSIVE play testing, we have no idea HOW to fix them. You cant just keep the server down until theres a solution. Because there cant be a solution until people test everything lol.

Its like taking the server down because theres to many people not on the server. It doesnt work like that. None of this works like that

Edited by KraftySOT, 12 September 2015 - 05:55 PM.

[Krivvan]

merz, on 12 September 2015 - 04:33 PM, said:

Anyway, lets try and work out serious suggestions on how we can move beyond these placeholder values other than 'PGI SUCKS, DON'T TOUCH MY META' etc.

I keep having to repeat this, the PTS doesn't change the actual meta except to remove the IS mechs from it, which did not make up the majority of the meta.

The same actual meta just got better on the PTS.

[InRev]

ilKhan Judge Dreddrensky, on 12 September 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

Now that the community has had it say, looks like the ball is in PGI's Chinese food court.

The form that this "re-balance" takes when it comes back online is going to be a very, very important watershed for this game. In it's current form, it's beyond bad. It makes no sense, it's badly implemented, it's illogical and self-contradictory, it's confusing for veteran players (let alone newbies) and, rather than adding fun to the game, "infotech" and the agility changes are just a bunch of "fun taxes" that detract from the game's enjoyment for zero tangible benefit.

The sick thing is, I'm actually cautiously optimistic that the nuclear meltdown that has taken place over the past 48 hours may result in some much needed eye-opening and necessary revisions to their plans. There is a ton of feedback out there that is backed up by an equal amount of nerdrage (the most dangerous kind of rage).

Fix it PGI, lest the 2nd Anniversary celebration be this game's last.

Edited by InRev, 12 September 2015 - 06:07 PM.

[thinkn bout thos Beans mans game]

InRev, on 12 September 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

The form that this "re-balance" takes when it comes back online is going to be a very, very important watershed for this game. In it's current form, it's beyond bad. It makes no sense, it's badly implemented, it's illogical and self-contradictory, it's confusing for veteran players (let alone newbies) and, rather than adding fun to the game, "infotech" and the agility changes are just a bunch of "fun taxes" that detract from the game's enjoyment for zero tangible benefit.

The sick thing is, I'm actually cautiously optimistic that the nuclear meltdown that has taken place over the past 48 hours may result in some much needed eye-opening and necessary revisions to their plans. There is a ton of feedback out there that is backed up by an equal amount of nerdrage (the most dangerous kind of rage).

Fix it PGI, lest the 2nd Anniversary celebration be this game's last.

Methinks that the original publisher of the game was not the heart of bad decisions, but the developers

Also, from checking glassdoor, I hope the exodus of staff isnt putting too much pressure on Russ and Paul to come up with great creative ideas like this PTS rebalance

[KraftySOT]

And show that im not a total jerkwad.

09/11/2015: We will be boosting all PTS accounts with additional MC, C-Bills, and GXP on Monday morning (9/14/2015) to give everyone sufficient resources for experimenting with new builds!

Is a great idea.

Most of the testers have 100+ gundams, but heck even I noticed right away, I dont have all the variants of ANY chassis anymore. Makes a comprehensive test of the entire chassis and all its variants difficult.

This was a really good move. We'll see you back here on Monday then. Hopefully we can get more done. But certainly there wont be anymore people monday morning there was on a Saturday afternoon. At least we get time to set up private tests? Always a silver lining I guess *sigh*

Edited by KraftySOT, 12 September 2015 - 06:23 PM.

[KraftySOT]

InRev, on 12 September 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

The form that this "re-balance" takes when it comes back online is going to be a very, very important watershed for this game. In it's current form, it's beyond bad. It makes no sense, it's badly implemented, it's illogical and self-contradictory, it's confusing for veteran players (let alone newbies) and, rather than adding fun to the game, "infotech" and the agility changes are just a bunch of "fun taxes" that detract from the game's enjoyment for zero tangible benefit.

The sick thing is, I'm actually cautiously optimistic that the nuclear meltdown that has taken place over the past 48 hours may result in some much needed eye-opening and necessary revisions to their plans. There is a ton of feedback out there that is backed up by an equal amount of nerdrage (the most dangerous kind of rage).

Fix it PGI, lest the 2nd Anniversary celebration be this game's last.

You and I both know monday morning when the PTS comes back up, it will be exactly the same as what we've got right now. Theres no way they got enough data to make changes. And I seriously doubt theyll just dump all the quirks back in. Thats a terrible idea.

Given enough time with testing, we could easily redo all the quirks over the next few months as a community. Without that feedback, do you REALLY want to see what throwing darts at a board up at PGI is going to be like? Thats how we got quirks in the first place that were incredibly OP, and others that didnt change anything about the terribad mech.

Im actually hoping it will be exactly the same with no changes between tonight and monday morning. Otherwise thats just more stuff we have to review, advise, and pray they fix.

Theyve shown PLENTY of times they cant do this on their own internally. They couldnt in CB, OB, 2 lrmaggedons, popparting, ppc brawler meta, before clans, clan invasion, summer of love, CW, and the quirkening.

They arent suddenly going to get it right now lol

Not without our extensive help. And we know PGI only takes two things seriously. Videos. #SaveMWO-esque rioting.

Which I cant blame them in the least for. If they did everything everyone said it would be a nightmare. Some level of evidentiary credibility is required. Videos of game play are the best possible way to tell how the game is being played. Way more people can record their experiences that then can be viewed, rewinded, fast forwarded, rewatched, than any dev can actually play their own game, or any group of testers could be watched and data collected on.

Edited by KraftySOT, 12 September 2015 - 06:31 PM.

[Thorqemada]

It would be nice if you (PGI) would also fix "Mechspeed" decisions of the past that completely change the balance between Mechs like the Cicada, that is build as fast Light-Hunter and in MWO it is a Light-Prey that suddenly is slower than all the Mechs it is build to hunt down for.

So fix the Mechengine-Multiplier based on the role of a Mech and not based on the artificial Weightclass it is accidentaly put into and make it somewhat consistent regarding what Mechline it is like the CN9-D that is the Speedfreak of the Centurions and should be brought down to a sane lavel of Enginesize - somewhere in the range where the Yen Lo Wang is.
You can not make a fast Mech much fast bcs it is already Speed optimized but you can make the slow Mechs of a Mechfamily faster optimizing them.
That means that a CN9-A has more potential for a Speedincrease than the already pimped up CN9-D or YLW !!!

Many thx!

PS: For Clan Omnis make Omnipods only having quirks for the weapons and Equipment they can carry, make Legs having quirks for movement, climbing, acceleration/decelration, turning and the CT have all other roledefining qwuirks - no omnipod swhould be able to Change the role or maneuverability of a Clan Omni!!!

Edited by Thorqemada, 12 September 2015 - 06:50 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Most engine caps on mediums are way...way to low.

Vindicators, Cicadas, Enforcers, Hunchies, the only thing that keeps low armored folks kicking and shooting, is hitreg/lagshield. Let the mediums get a piece of that.

Though that said, my Wubcada goes 137kph. So I dont see how anymore speed will really help it. What its needs is to be alot smaller, with hitboxes that are tight to its legs just like the ACH.

[Quintus Verus]

KraftySOT, on 12 September 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

See thats ridiculous. It easily will take the people working on it, the better part of October to go through all the variants and see how their sensors actually perform in games, and how all the different mechs work together in a game.

That all has to happen before we even get to weapons.

Its really easy to say "fix the weapons" but until we have EXTENSIVE play testing, we have no idea HOW to fix them. You cant just keep the server down until theres a solution. Because there cant be a solution until people test everything lol.

Its like taking the server down because theres to many people not on the server. It doesnt work like that. None of this works like that

Yes, you're probably right. I would have just rather them not run this out without speaking to weapons.