97 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 16 September 2015 - 07:51 PM, said:

I already know your position. I am seeking an answer to the question: What's next if this next attempt at balance fails, especially because people are already declaring this latest attempt as a failure?

I'm saying all attempts to balance in any form, 1 v 1 or 12 v 12 or 10 v 12 or whatever will fail to get perfect because this isn't the sort of game you can get a perfect balance on. Goal is as close as possible that the most people will play.

The latest attempt isn't even started yet. People are declaring it a failure because drama is popular.

What next? Keep trying to balance the game, 1 mech to 1 mech and at least try to make that pendulum swing a bit. We haven't really had any 'swing', it's just been 'Clans have best mech in every class. Sometimes by a lot, sometimes by not quite as much'.

Mystere, on 16 September 2015 - 08:22 PM, said:

I was actually referring to the new "diamond" pillars method, not just this latest pass.

I think the diamond needs reweighted.

[Davers]

MischiefSC, on 16 September 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

I think the diamond needs reweighted.

True, but since Clans already have great firepower, good mobility (with their best mechs), and good survivability, what is left to nerf but infowar?

Unless Clan weapons are going to be taken down a few notches. Then we will see a real **** storm.

[MischiefSC]

Davers, on 16 September 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

True, but since Clans already have great firepower, good mobility (with their best mechs), and good survivability, what is left to nerf but infowar?

Unless Clan weapons are going to be taken down a few notches. Then we will see a real **** storm.

Russ has already said Clans are getting a nerf. Specifically he said he wants to make a TW equal to an Orion.

That.... that's a statement.

[Davers]

MischiefSC, on 16 September 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

Russ has already said Clans are getting a nerf. Specifically he said he wants to make a TW equal to an Orion.

That.... that's a statement.

Orion rescaled to Commando size confirmed.

[MischiefSC]

I'm game with Kit Fox size, with JJs and ECM.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 16 September 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

I think the diamond needs reweighted.

How can you even tell the weights right now? We do not even know the values of the different balance scores or how they are calculated. All we can reasonably guess is that the shape of the diamond seems to define the intended role of the Mech.

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 16 September 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

How can you even tell the weights right now? We do not even know the values of the different balance scores or how they are calculated. All we can reasonably guess is that the shape of the diamond seems to define the intended role of the Mech.

Except that sensors are not a measurable or really relevant facet of a mechs performance. Firepower is vastly superior to all other facets. Hence why weapons need balanced first.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 16 September 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

Except that sensors are not a measurable or really relevant facet of a mechs performance. Firepower is vastly superior to all other facets. Hence why weapons need balanced first.

I think sensors plus this can make a significant difference. And it looks like the latter caught someone's attention.

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 16 September 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

I think sensors plus this can make a significant difference. And it looks like the latter caught someone's attention.

I like the concept. I admit a bit of trepidation on how PGI has, historically, implemented that sort of game component though.

[Vellron2005]

In my humble opinion, 10 Vs. 12 could work in CW, and perhapse in a IS vs. CLAN mode... but in solo and group que, its impossible to implement.. so there will always be this "balance this, nerf that" midset in some people..

[BoldricKent]

For the purpose of balacing things out, PGI should look at TT version, which used unprefect but still
workable BV (battle value ) rating, depending on equipted weapons, upgrades,speed, JJ etc...so when you thinker
with your mech its BV will raise or fall. To show an example Shadow Cat has between 2000 and 3000 points, while
Blackjack has between 900-1200, omni versions when using clan weapons can pass 2000. IS assults depnding on used tech will start around 1500,when thrown in clan tech can reach over 3k, much the same as their clan counterparts.
But basic idea would be not matching numbers and tonnage class, but numbers and BV class.
Note BV can be adjusted for component,chassies....so quirks would become surplus.
And yes IS would get certain tonnage, armor advantage...but as soon you start upgrading tech on IS, that advantage would
would melt down...mix tech..even more soo.

[Moldur]

Nobody plays CW. Yet people seem to always support their arguments by wildly groping at the idea of Clan vs IS and want the game to be balanced that way.

The way balance should be between Clan and IS mechs is entirely different depending on if you are talking about matches with mixed teams like EVERYONE PLAYS or matches like CW with only clan vs only IS.

In my opinion, the only way balance between IS and clans will ever come to fruition is if the mechs behave entirely differently between regular drop and cw, since the context of the fight is completely different, and one can never be used as the standard for balance in the other. In short, balance in one means ******* up the other.

[masCh]

Tukayyid happened.

Lets have IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan in CW for now, until PGI figures out how to do a proper Clan vs IS matchup.

[Mystere]

Vellron2005, on 17 September 2015 - 12:14 AM, said:

In my humble opinion, 10 Vs. 12 could work in CW, and perhapse in a IS vs. CLAN mode... but in solo and group que, its impossible to implement.. so there will always be this "balance this, nerf that" midset in some people..

A reasonable solution is for the matchmaker to create IS vs. Clan, IS vs. IS, or Clan vs. Clan match ups depending on player availability.

Heck, it can even be in any combination of suitable Clan and/or IS formations.

Variety, it's not such a bad thing.

Edited by Mystere, 17 September 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

CW; 10v16
PUGGING; Clans 1 spawns, IS 2 respawns
So you can have 12v12 in pug as well

[wanderer]

Until sensors have a direct effect on people being able to point down the line and unleash a giga-blast of section-destroying firepower, they're basically meaningless.

You don't need sensors to see a target, put it in the crosshairs, and have it eat the combo-blast of choice.

And the day they manage to make a Timber Wolf a 1:1 match from an Orion will be hilarious, as the contortions it will take to do so will make most people cry tears of blood as their minds refuse to understand what the TW has become.

[Lykaon]

SaltBeef, on 13 September 2015 - 05:35 PM, said:

If Clan mechs became dominate they could just switch to refusal war. Clan on Clan.like MW2.

Clan mech will become dominant the moment players want results over playing an I.S. faction.

The upcoming release of the Clan IIc mechs will be the final nail in the coffin for the inner sphere mech.The IIc mechs have all the customization of an Inner Sphere mech without any of the downsides of being Inner Sphere.

We could jump the timeline ahead to the Jihad and allow any faction access to any mech or even allow mixed tech mechs to exist.

Or we could if the player base is large enough post steam release have a 3025 setting.I myself prefer a late 3030s setting because you get most of the cool toys and mech designs without clan tech.

[MischiefSC]

wanderer, on 17 September 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Until sensors have a direct effect on people being able to point down the line and unleash a giga-blast of section-destroying firepower, they're basically meaningless.

You don't need sensors to see a target, put it in the crosshairs, and have it eat the combo-blast of choice.

And the day they manage to make a Timber Wolf a 1:1 match from an Orion will be hilarious, as the contortions it will take to do so will make most people cry tears of blood as their minds refuse to understand what the TW has become.

nope. Orion gets resized to shawk size and Hardpoints like a cauldron born.