205 replies to this topic

[Hans Von Lohman]

Just saw this posted on YouTube. Sean Lang from NGNG goes into detail about the Public Test Server and what is what, and why they did what they did.

Most important thing to know is that they knew balance was broken, and they were OK with it for now because it was just the public test server. They weren't interested in whether or not it was balanced, in fact it wasn't at all. They wanted to see how the info warfare stuff was working.

[Duke Nedo]

It would have helped if they had announced that before hand...

[Juodas Varnas]

If they wanted to test that info-gathering quirk nonsense, what was the point of removing all of the other quirks?
Wouldn't it have made more sense to add the info-gathering quirks on-top of the normal quirks, you know? To not ****-up balance COMPLETELY.

Because i did try the PTS in-game and the balance (especially between IS and CLAN) is completely BONKERS, it's as f*cked as it was during the Clan Invasion. I'll go as far as to say, that if you didn't play Clan mechs, you were basically worthless.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Juodas Varnas, on 13 September 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

If they wanted to test that info-gathering quirk nonsense, what was the point of removing all of the other quirks?
Wouldn't it have made more sense to add the info-gathering quirks on-top of the normal quirks, you know? To not ****-up balance COMPLETELY.

Because i did try the PTS in-game and the balance (especially between IS and CLAN) is completely BONKERS, it's as f*cked as it was during the Clan Invasion. I'll go as far as to say, that if you didn't play Clan mechs, you were basically worthless.

Just go watch the video. That question gets answered.

You didn't watch it, did you?

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 13 September 2015 - 09:48 PM.

[Sean Lang]

Was headed over here to post! Thanks @Hans! Hope that clears the air of a few things, as I felt future communication needs to be very clear and overall better to help ease players expectations!

[One Medic Army]

Hans Von Lohman, on 13 September 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

Just go watch the video. That question gets answered.

You didn't watch it, did you?

Well, it is a 40+minute video.

[bad arcade kitty]

we understand that it's a draft

the problem is, it's a very scary draft and it's hard to believe something good can come from such a terrible draft

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 13 September 2015 - 09:54 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Haven't seen the video yet, so maybe I will change my mind later and edit this post. But I think the following point is valid regardless.

When you give players the impression that all kinds of feedback is valued, when you keep the real focus of testing a secret, it means a lot of players are going to spend a lot of time providing feedback that is totally meaningless. PGI has a pretty bad track record of using feedback and letting us know what they need and when they need it.

After stunts like this, it seems increasingly obvious our feedback is nowhere near as important as raw metrics.

[STEF_]

Sean Lang, on 13 September 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

Was headed over here to post! Thanks @Hans! Hope that clears the air of a few things, as I felt future communication needs to be very clear and overall better to help ease players expectations!

What we need to know if really all weapon quirks (such as cooldown/heat/range) will really be removed in the new system, and without a new weapon rebalance.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 13 September 2015 - 10:14 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Stefka Kerensky, on 13 September 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

What we need to know if really all weapon quirks (such as cooldown/heat/range) will really be removed in the new system, and without a new weapon rebalance.

I'd be willing the bet that PGI won't completely break the game balance on the live server because it'll cause people to leave.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Well If Russ had just said it like you did Sean, none of this freakout would have happened in the first place.

With such a massive change to the game, wiping out weapons quirks, resetting armor/structure and having it delivered in such incomplete fashion, no wonder everyone panics

All he had to say from the start was his intentions, and what the focus actually was, what we got were very very little details even from Paul's announcement that the PTS was ready.

All we saw were crazy #'s and what looked to us like a complete mess.

Now that you've cleared that up Sean, it makes a world of difference.

[XX Sulla XX]

Main problem as I stated in my post on it is just a few Clan weapons. It makes no sense not to have IS counters and try and do a balance. Link - http://mwomercs.com/...deo-on-balance/

[ShinVector]

Mister D, on 13 September 2015 - 10:20 PM, said:

With such a massive change to the game, wiping out weapons quirks, resetting armor/structure and having it delivered in such incomplete fashion, no wonder everyone panics

I all for wiping out weapons quirks as it was a mess that grew bigger and bigger and left the former 'Tier 1s' in the dust.

But they clearly did not explain IS vs Clan rebalanacing at all.

Edited by ShinVector, 14 September 2015 - 12:08 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

Stefka Kerensky, on 13 September 2015 - 10:12 PM, said:

What we need to know if really all weapon quirks (such as cooldown/heat/range) will really be removed in the new system, and without a new weapon rebalance.

At current iteration, the answer appears to be yes. Phil keeps repeating that weapon quirks "aren't off the table", but it's obviously not something PGI wants to keep in.

And that's cool. Weapon quirks are a band-aid fix to an underlying disparity between IS and Clan tech. It's difficult to buff IS weapons when anything you do to the MPL gets boosted 50% on the TDR-5SS.

But even implying that you might send a build to production with no weapon quirks and no other significant modifications to ClanvIS combat is going to set the forums ablaze.

Community Warfare is live. IS v Clan Combat is one of the single most important facets of game balance. Sure, make the Hunchback comparable to the Shadow Hawk. That's great. Change sensors to make non-Cheetah Lights relevant. That's awesome.

But there's absolutely no point in pushing a patch that will immediately put every other Mech in the game 2 steps down from the Timber Wolf.

I'd rather see the PTS online for 6 weeks while Paul pushes 12 different iterations of Clan/IS weapon balance fixes on top of the existing "rebalance" than get a patch in October that will do more to homogenize higher level play than any single patch since Clan Wave 1 hit Live servers.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Yes, they absolutely can not leave weapons out of the picture on this rebalance.

Whether they do it Via Quirks, or go back to ground zero and start balancing weapons one at a time on their own, it needs to happen if they actually want balance.

[Sean Lang]

Vlad Ward, on 13 September 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

At current iteration, the answer appears to be yes. Phil keeps repeating that weapon quirks "aren't off the table", but it's obviously not something PGI wants to keep in.

This is incorrect. As I mentioned in the video, I stated you had to whipe clean current weapon quirks to get a better understanding. Also I mentioned that adding small weapon quirks here and there could help distinguish a variant from one another and chassis v chassis. But even then, you would not see massive 20-50% quirks like how you do with weapon quirks, but small ones instead. It's still on the table, but for the first iteration, clean slate is needed.

[Vlad Ward]

Sean Lang, on 13 September 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

This is incorrect. As I mentioned in the video, I stated you had to whipe clean current weapon quirks to get a better understanding. Also I mentioned that adding small weapon quirks here and there could help distinguish a variant from one another and chassis v chassis. But even then, you would not see massive 20-50% quirks like how you do with weapon quirks, but small ones instead. It's still on the table, but for the first iteration, clean slate is needed.

Tone down the defensive squirrel mode a bit. That's not all that different from what I said. My focus (and most likely, everyone elses') on weapon quirks is on IS v Clan Balance. Minor quirks to make some chassis' different from one another are completely irrelevant to that discussion.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 13 September 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Quirks up to 10 or 20% are fine and help differentiate the mechs (which you need if you want us to buy new content).

Quirks of 50%+ are not fine.

Why is this so hard to understand?

[STEF_]

Vlad Ward, on 13 September 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

At current iteration, the answer appears to be yes. Phil keeps repeating that weapon quirks "aren't off the table", but it's obviously not something PGI wants to keep in.

And that's cool. Weapon quirks are a band-aid fix to an underlying disparity between IS and Clan tech. It's difficult to buff IS weapons when anything you do to the MPL gets boosted 50% on the TDR-5SS.

But even implying that you might send a build to production with no weapon quirks and no other significant modifications to ClanvIS combat is going to set the forums ablaze.

Community Warfare is live. IS v Clan Combat is one of the single most important facets of game balance. Sure, make the Hunchback comparable to the Shadow Hawk. That's great. Change sensors to make non-Cheetah Lights relevant. That's awesome.

But there's absolutely no point in pushing a patch that will immediately put every other Mech in the game 2 steps down from the Timber Wolf.

I'd rather see the PTS online for 6 weeks while Paul pushes 12 different iterations of Clan/IS weapon balance fixes on top of the existing "rebalance" than get a patch in October that will do more to homogenize higher level play than any single patch since Clan Wave 1 hit Live servers.

I played CW a lot switching clan/IS quite every week, and I could see that there was a balance between Clan and IS (maybe a weird one).
I can see through average dmg/kills/match duration: it is the same, and this brings me to think that we were in a good spot.

I don't remember where nor from who (Russ? I cannot remember), but I read that in the new system weapon quirks (cooldown/hear eff/range) will be removed. And this would be crazy.


Moreover, everybody can shoot at enemy with or without sensors. So, although that part is cool, sensors quirks are pretty pointless, imo.

PGI should be far more clear in communication and even in what the new system will be.

[SaltBeef]

I figured as much as well, that is why I did not freaksauce all over the forum like so many others and instead supported by Buying a full Mauler package. Most do not want cookie cutter mechs with the same weapons in different looking flavors. I see that current balance as IS gets PPD, Clans do not, Clans get Range on some lasers at the cost of heat. IS get less damage but ability to fire more salvos for less heat. IS gets a higher impulse on weapons where clan weapons do not rock you as much. Structure, Armor, buffing of these areas is needed on lots of mechs, Clan and IS, some mechs should still get smaller quirks, both IS and Clan, hopefully in the near future the timeline jumps, IS gets thier X- pulse lasers and they help balance out the laser duels, and maybe Clan then can get a trade buff to thier Ultras, Maybe IS omnimechs are released with tougher torsos to protect those weak XL engines. Balance is doable but people have got to realize the perameters of Internet connection speeds, location, hardware, Software, and player skill will always be a outside factor working against Balance.