566 replies to this topic

[Lord0fHats]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2015 - 06:27 PM, said:

and the TBR does it with better range, DPS, 2crit DHS, and immortal Clan XLs, whereas it's questionable if the MAD can run an XL at all.

DHS won't really come to matter (I've done the math on this before). The big issues will be the speed and range differences. One marauder is probably gonna be quirked for PPCs, which if that is all it gets will probably relegate that variant to the trash heap. but given PGI's habits, one is probably gonna have AC or UAC quirks, maybe gauss, and another will get laser quirks. The quirked TBolts aren't quite on par with the Timber or the Ebon Jag, but they can put up a good fight. If the Marauder gets the right kind of love, I think it'll come out standing strongly enough to rival it's Clan Counter parts... At least until PGI gets their stuff together and finally addresses the balance issues...

Not optimistic about that last part. i mean, they released the Artic Cheetah with good quirks. Everyone knew it was gonna become a champ without quirks... and PGI gave it quirks. Yeah, outlook on that not good especially given the oddness in that PTS rebalance thing thus far. But at least in terms of IS internal balance, the Marauder's outlook looks pretty sweet

[Roadkill]

a

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 06:17 PM, said:

You can call it a tantrum, I call it Pretty-Baby-itis, once bitten, twice shy.

And yet that's exactly what you want to do to the Bounty Hunter.

[Gas Guzzler]

Mister Blastman, on 14 September 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

Bitterness is reason enough for me.

Well then they can fix your mechs after they restore Class 1 Jump jets to there original glory and buff PPCs up to 1500 m/s again.

[Mister Blastman]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 September 2015 - 06:43 PM, said:

Well then they can fix your mechs after they restore Class 1 Jump jets to there original glory and buff PPCs up to 1500 m/s again.

If they do that for _just_ Inner Sphere 'mechs, I'm fine with that.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lord0fHats, on 14 September 2015 - 06:34 PM, said:

DHS won't really come to matter (I've done the math on this before). The big issues will be the speed and range differences. One marauder is probably gonna be quirked for PPCs, which if that is all it gets will probably relegate that variant to the trash heap. but given PGI's habits, one is probably gonna have AC or UAC quirks, maybe gauss, and another will get laser quirks. The quirked TBolts aren't quite on par with the Timber or the Ebon Jag, but they can put up a good fight. If the Marauder gets the right kind of love, I think it'll come out standing strongly enough to rival it's Clan Counter parts... At least until PGI gets their stuff together and finally addresses the balance issues...

Not optimistic about that last part. i mean, they released the Artic Cheetah with good quirks. Everyone knew it was gonna become a champ without quirks... and PGI gave it quirks. Yeah, outlook on that not good especially given the oddness in that PTS rebalance thing thus far. But at least in terms of IS internal balance, the Marauder's outlook looks pretty sweet

gimme some 20-25% velocity quirks on the PPCs and that's the model I will use most.

I figure the 5M will be generic laser or LPL quirks, which can be vicious, with speed and JJs, 5D probably ERPPC or Generic Energy, and the 3R for sure PPC quirks. Question is, in the rebalance, how much will any weapon quirk be?

[Roadkill]

Wintersdark, on 14 September 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but the whole crux of your argument is based on the fear of the BH2 being "too good". Can you at least expand on that and say which build will be too good? That's a fairly important detail to have anything you've said here make any sense at all.

He can't, because IS laser vomit just can't even without major quirks.

Proof: Thud vs 'Hopper.

Can anyone figure out a BH build that can top the 3 AC/5 + 4 ML 3R build? That's a 1.5-second Gauss Rifle with no charge-up mechanic once it's kitted out. Grid Iron? Yeah... right... whatever.

I'm sort of beginning to think that's its best hope is to get a big enough engine cap to run 7 MPL and pretend to be a Thud, only slower but cooler looking.

[Lord0fHats]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

gimme some 20-25% velocity quirks on the PPCs and that's the model I will use most.

I figure the 5M will be generic laser or LPL quirks, which can be vicious, with speed and JJs, 5D probably ERPPC or Generic Energy, and the 3R for sure PPC quirks. Question is, in the rebalance, how much will any weapon quirk be?

The issue for me is that even with PPC velocity quirks, those arms are awfully low. This just isn't a mech built for long range fighting, which where properly quirked PPC mechs belong imo. But yeah, give one variant some good LPL or LL quirks and that mech is gonna go to town.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 14 September 2015 - 06:50 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lord0fHats, on 14 September 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

The issue for me is that even with PPC velocity quirks, those arms are awfully low. This just isn't a mech built for long range fighting, which where properly quirked PPC mechs belong imo. But yeah, give one variant some good LPL or LL quirks and that mech is gonna go to town.

low mount is not ideal, BUT, JJs can help. But it's definitely not as easy money as mechs like the TDR-9S

[Eboli]

I am no longer spending money on MWO (IIC being my last money being spent) but seeing a 275 engine cap was a "WTF" moment. Even if I was spending money I wouldn't buy the hero because of this.

I think a 300 cap is very reasonable suggestion as is that it gives a little bit more speed but not much extra that will bring about complaints from the player base as being OP. JJs are not that brilliant atm and can always be adjusted per chassis anyhow to ensure they do not create too many issues.

Extra engine weight generally does mean less weapon loadouts even if such engines have a couple of extra heat sinks.

Cheers

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadkill, on 14 September 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:

He can't, because IS laser vomit just can't even without major quirks.

Proof: Thud vs 'Hopper.

Can anyone figure out a BH build that can top the 3 AC/5 + 4 ML 3R build? That's a 1.5-second Gauss Rifle with no charge-up mechanic once it's kitted out. Grid Iron? Yeah... right... whatever.

I'm sort of beginning to think that's its best hope is to get a big enough engine cap to run 7 MPL and pretend to be a Thud, only slower but cooler looking.

if one is willing to be a little slower (66.5) one can get an extra 2 tons of ammo.

[Gas Guzzler]

Roadkill, on 14 September 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:

He can't, because IS laser vomit just can't even without major quirks.

Proof: Thud vs 'Hopper.

Can anyone figure out a BH build that can top the 3 AC/5 + 4 ML 3R build? That's a 1.5-second Gauss Rifle with no charge-up mechanic once it's kitted out. Grid Iron? Yeah... right... whatever.

I'm sort of beginning to think that's its best hope is to get a big enough engine cap to run 7 MPL and pretend to be a Thud, only slower but cooler looking.

The most "devastating" build I found if they up the engine cap to a 300, is an XL 300 with a Gauss, 2LL, and 5MLs, with 14 DHS and 4 JJs (no room for more DHS, if only there were more engine slots). 63 damage alpha at 300m that you can use twice before having to wait a while before firing anything but the gauss again. It might be sort of effective, but its going to be very hot.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 14 September 2015 - 06:59 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 September 2015 - 06:57 PM, said:

The most "devastating" build I found if they up the engine cap to a 300, is an XL 300 with a Gauss, 2LL, and 5MLs, with 14 DHS and 4 JJs (no room for more DHS, if only there were more engine slots). 63 damage alpha that you can use twice before having to wait a while before firing anything but the gauss again. It might be sort of effective, but its going to be very hot.

and for actual use in decent tier play, you'd be better off dropping 2 of the MLs for more sustainable firepower. Which puts you back into 5M territory

[Wintersdark]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 September 2015 - 06:57 PM, said:

The most "devastating" build I found if they up the engine cap to a 300, is an XL 300 with a Gauss, 2LL, and 5MLs, with 14 DHS and 4 JJs (no room for more DHS, if only there were more engine slots). 63 damage alpha at 300m that you can use twice before having to wait a while before firing anything but the gauss again. It might be sort of effective, but its going to be very hot.

Maybe not a bad build, but nothing even remotely approaching being "overpowered" or even worth considering as a top-tier entrant.

14 DHS, with 2LL and 5ML? You'd heatcap in two alphas, as you said, and then you'd essentially have only a gauss rifle for a long, long time. You'd probably be better off with Gauss, 2ERLL and 3ML with 16DHS, but then... Oh, that's a different variant.

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2015 - 06:58 PM, said:

and for actual use in decent tier play, you'd be better off dropping 2 of the MLs for more sustainable firepower. Which puts you back into 5M territory

hah ninja'd

[MeiSooHaityu]

I'm thinking at least 300 or maybe 315. A cap set at 275 is just painful for a 75ton mech in this gaming environment.

[Wintersdark]

I could see 320, too. The only reason to not go to 325 is because you don't want to give the laser-based variant a third extra in-engine DHS (assuming you buy the "7E Marauder Is OP" line), but there's no harm in 320 there.

I honestly can't see the BH2 being the best variant even at 325, though, and honestly running no more than 5E in almost all cases anyways where it's just a c-bill bonus take on the 5M.

[Gas Guzzler]

Wintersdark, on 14 September 2015 - 07:18 PM, said:

Maybe not a bad build, but nothing even remotely approaching being "overpowered" or even worth considering as a top-tier entrant.

14 DHS, with 2LL and 5ML? You'd heatcap in two alphas, as you said, and then you'd essentially have only a gauss rifle for a long, long time. You'd probably be better off with Gauss, 2ERLL and 3ML with 16DHS, but then... Oh, that's a different variant.


hah ninja'd

Or... Gauss and 3LL.

[Deathlike]

I think you need to look @ the 7ML+Gauss build in context.

An Enforcer with its quirks is running 5ML+Gauss with a 255XL. This is far more mobile and already has more potential than a 7ML+Gauss Hero Marauder.

Considering the state of the Orion, it isn't too much of a high bar to beat it (the jury is still out on the laservomit Black Knight)... so to worry about the Hero Marauder is kind unfounded IMO.

[Wintersdark]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 September 2015 - 07:22 PM, said:

Or... Gauss and 3LL.

Yeah, I think that'll end up being likely the most common MAD build.

That, and the 3R with 3 AC5 and 4 ML.

[Ultimax]

Would anyone even really be upset if the Bounty Hunter got a 360 cap like the other Marauders?

STD builds are going to crap out around 300 anyway and XL builds are going to need the extra speed to survive with those hitboxes.

275 is laughably bad, 300 would be barely passable. 325 would be acceptable - but as an IS mech, with IS tech and with Stalker or Catapult style hitboxes 360 wouldn't be OP IMO.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 14 September 2015 - 07:27 PM.

[Brody319]

Ultimatum X, on 14 September 2015 - 07:26 PM, said:

Would anyone even really be upset if the Bounty Hunter got a 360 cap like the other Marauders?

STD builds are going to crap out around 300 anyway and XL builds are going to need the extra speed to survive with those hitboxes.

275 is laughably bad, 300 would be barely passable. 325 would be acceptable - but as an IS mech, with IS tech and with Stalker or Catapult style hitboxes 360 wouldn't be OP IMO.

me? No
Others? Most likely.