566 replies to this topic

[Clint Steel]

I am/was considering picking up a MAD pack since I thought it was a nice deal to also get a hero for another 15 bucks. Capping the Marauder at Stalker speeds seems a bit harsh though. It think the extra 5kph that a 300 engine would give it would be ok, since that is what the regular ones run stock.

[Lord0fHats]

Brody319, on 14 September 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

The 3R with 2 UAC5 with 5 tons of ammo + 4 MLs.
Boom best build.

^ yes this. Super excited to have a IS heavy with some actual build variety. So many of the current IS heavies (and the upcoming Black Knight) just boat something, be it missiles, lasers, or ballistics. The only mech that can really play a mix is the Cataphract, and the old girl just doesn't work like she used to.

Between the variants (not counting Bounty Hunter) you can run a bunch of different mixed weapon variants that will actually be viable. It's all down to hitboxes and quirks, which I'm optimistic for cause its the Marauder and the fan rage that would come if it sucked would be insurmountable, so I think PGI is gonna take extra care with it

Edited by Lord0fHats, 14 September 2015 - 06:03 PM.

[Lordred]

The BH needs at least a engine rating cap of 300 in order for me to buy it.



But than again, I am of the opinion that every Battlemech should have an engine rating cap = The default engine + one whole MP rating.

[zagibu]

Brody319, on 14 September 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

The 3R with 2 UAC5 with 5 tons of ammo + 4 MLs.
Boom best build.

Why would you do that on the 3R, when the 5M can do it with jumpjets?

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

..................... "best"?

That word you keep saying.... I do not think it means what you think it means......

You can do 3 AC5s and 4 MLs with a STD300, and 5 tons of ammo, which is a little low on ammo, but thats BNC3E level firepower....

[Wintersdark]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

I'm going to add this for full disclosure since it is relevant to the conversation.
I am interested in purchasing the $40 pack to get the MAD-3R(S). I really have no interest in the MAD-BH2 variant. I won't purchase it regardless of where it lands.
However, I will not be purchasing a MAD-3R(S) if it is outclassed by the Bounty Hunter, and if I don't get the (S), I also don't buy the standard pack either, I have enough grinding of other chassis scheduled to keep me busy long after it is released for C-Bills.

I just wanted to put this in terms PGI understands.

Wait. I don't really understand your motivation here. You don't want the Bounty Hunter, no matter what engine cap it has. You want the 3R(S), presumably because you're interested in the 3B hardpoints.

If the BH2 is "better" in no way affects the 3R. It will be no stronger or weaker.

All I can see here is you saying " If a mech I don't want doesn't suck, I'm going to throw a tantrum and not buy anything at all, so THERE PGI.". Which seems shockingly childish and out of character for you.

Or am I misunderstanding something?

[Brody319]

zagibu, on 14 September 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

Why would you do that on the 3R, when the 5M can do it with jumpjets?

Because the 5M has to be my Gauss platform.
1 gauss 3 tons of ammo, 2 ERLL in one arm, 3 MLs in the other. Silly

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Being unpopular never discouraged me.
I simply believe that a larger engine will make the MAD-BH the most powerful Marauder available, which as a hero mech. Furthermore, at 75 tons it is at the top of the Heavy food chain.
This would make the Bounty Hunter the best mch in the heavy weight class, the definition of pay to win. Remember h house that worked out for the Victors?

No hyperbole here, just identifying the balance problems created by allowing a larger engine (I got pulled off topic by the lore posts, my bad)

Yet, it doesn't. It will still be markedly slower than other laser vomit builds, and less versatile than other MADs. the 5D is going to OWN it. Because even with a 300, it won't be able to maximize the Meta, and once the meta shifts, it will be even worse.

To maximize Laservomit, you need wither the speed to use it, or the heat capacity to use mass large lasers. It has neither ability, and will still be by far the slowest MAD, while outclassed by any laser vomit that can move faster, or has higher hardpoints.

That's the thing, it's still not better. It may be arguably better than the 3R if it got a 325 ( MAYBE ). I would agree it would be too much to give it a 350+.. But the 5D and 5M are already undeniably better than the 3R.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2015 - 05:56 PM, said:

Don't always see eye to eye with Agent, but never figured I'd see him being so oddly obstinate on something with absolutely no basis in cogent fact or argument. Color me boggled.

Same thought crossed my mind, especially considering your proclivity lore and balance vs. Meta and power creep.

[zagibu]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

I simply believe that a larger engine will make the MAD-BH the most powerful Marauder available, which as a hero mech.

Is this just a gut feeling or can you back it up with a build?

[Wintersdark]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

Being unpopular never discouraged me.
I simply believe that a larger engine will make the MAD-BH the most powerful Marauder available, which as a hero mech. Furthermore, at 75 tons it is at the top of the Heavy food chain.
This would make the Bounty Hunter the best mch in the heavy weight class, the definition of pay to win. Remember h house that worked out for the Victors?

No hyperbole here, just identifying the balance problems created by allowing a larger engine (I got pulled off topic by the lore posts, my bad)

Be specific. What build do you feel a 300.. Hell, a 325 rated BH2 is going to sport that makes it objectively the best MAD? You've gotta lot of hyperbole going on, but I'm not seeing anything detail. Keeping in mind, as soon as you dip to using 5E instead of 6 or 7, your in the same spot as using a normal variant.

Even if the BH2 is in fact the best MAD (this by no means being proven or even one build example given) that makes the situation quite comparable to the Misery through most if its life, which has never been a problem.

[zagibu]

Brody319, on 14 September 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Because the 5M has to be my Gauss platform.
1 gauss 3 tons of ammo, 2 ERLL in one arm, 3 MLs in the other. Silly

Isn't a gauss sharing the torso with an XL engine a bit...risky?

[Wintersdark]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

Same thought crossed my mind, especially considering your proclivity lore and balance vs. Meta and power creep.

I think it's because nobody else here is seeing power creep.

Show us. What 300 BH2 build is problematic and objectively better than builds available on the non hero variants?

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

Same thought crossed my mind, especially considering your proclivity lore and balance vs. Meta and power creep.

yet there is no power creep in letting it move fast enough to not be garbage.

Again, you are VASTLY overestimating the value of those energy hardpoints, especially since it's IS Lasers, on a slow mech with low slung hardpoints.

[Brody319]

zagibu, on 14 September 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

Isn't a gauss sharing the torso with an XL engine a bit...risky?

What? XL....why would I use an XL? I was building with a STD 300 engine...

[J0anna]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

hey if sucking for nostalgia's sake makes you grin, more power to you (I run a stock Summoner Prime on my Clan Acct, so I feel ya). Having the ability to NOT suck, on the other hand doesn't impact your choice at all, now does it?

There is a difference between asking and complaining. Many people here are doing the later, they should remember how good they have it. No changing the Bh's engine doesn't bother me, but I won't complain if they don't. I can't even remember having a Marauder in a PC game (maybe MW I?). I remember seeing them on TT and even using them. Yeah they were a bit of a heat pig but I also remember those PPC's absolutely trashing some mechs, I also remember one battle where two high odds PPC hits (at different times) completely cost me the match...That mech takes me way back.....

[Mister Blastman]

No. Not unless my Hunchbacks get an engine cap raise, my Suckoner™ gets removable Endo + Ferro + Jets + Torso energy nipples and my Dragon gets six ballstic hardpoints in one arm.

Nope.

[Bishop Steiner]

Brody319, on 14 September 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

What? XL....why would I use an XL? I was building with a STD 300 engine...

how many DHS you planning on? Sounds like it might be a little hot since that loadout with just 2 tons of ammo would be 30 tons of weapons and ammo..... 300 STD comes to 25 tons, Are you gonna try to get by with only 1-2 JJ? Armor and JJs will run you the remaining 20.......

[Gas Guzzler]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

Same thought crossed my mind, especially considering your proclivity lore and balance vs. Meta and power creep.

A 71 kph heavy will not be meta in the current state of the game. There is no meta loadout that can take advantage of all of the hardpoints while being heat efficient, the best build will probably end up being 3LL and Gauss, which you can do with another C-bill variant.

[zagibu]

Brody319, on 14 September 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

What? XL....why would I use an XL? I was building with a STD 300 engine...

STD300 with that loadout will be a bit hot and slow, but if it works for you...